Proposal: Marner for Lindholm

[Static]

This thread is kinda funny. I keep hearing nylander+ or marner+....might be people that dont watch leafs games because yes kids are still unproven and all that but these high pick kids have shown they gave elite offensive skill which is way harder to aquire then strong defenders so jyst to clear this argument....

If you believe Lou is that interested in Lindholm then forget marner or nylander because they arent going anywhere....expect a offer sheet veey soon longvterm at 6M + multiple years. Either we lose picks in an decent deaft or anaheim matches and gets in a very complicated cap situation forcing them to trade other defenders for cheap.
Im sure leafs can continue to get other picks from rental and we wont be picking top 5 maybe 10 next year anyways....
So marner or nylander....nah just offer sheet

Genius.

 

[Menzinger]

There isn't valley between Nylander's value and Marner's y'know. They're pretty equal all things considered. It comes down to personal preference.

I'll never understand why some assume Marner to have more value. The two players hockey CVs are close to identical in terms of accomplishments.

I think the Leafs would be crazy to trade either too.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

Lindholm isn't better than Rielly, first of all. Switch Rielly to the powerhouse Ducks and Lindholm to the basement Leafs for the last 3 years and Rielly would have done so much better.

When they both play best on best Rielly is better.

And Marner is more valuable than Larkin. Larkin is more on par with Nylander.


And Fowler wouldn't get you remotely close to Nylander, by the way. Hilarious.


When will people learn that more proven =/= better? I would get it if it were a prospect that wasn't a sure thing. But Marner is a 1st overall talent who was in a stacked draft. And he's only gotten better and better. Hampus is very good. But he isn't a bonefide #1D yet. Well, on Anaheim he's close. But that's only because he has such a fantastic team supporting him. Look at all the other young Ds around the NHL near his age. They all play on teams that have been crappy up until this point (And not because of them). Put Lindholm on a team like Buffalo/Toronto/Winnipeg and and Risto/Rielly/Trouba would look better if they were playing on Anaheim. Toronto wouldn't trade Marner for Rielly. Lindholm is only viewed as better than Rielly because of team support. Case closed

Lol so much bs in one post I love it

 

[eternalbedhead]

I've actually been able to catch more Leafs games than Ducks games this season so far


Marner really stood out each time. Still a bit bumpy, but he showed flashes of elite ability and definitely looked like he belonged. Very smart player, fast, skilled. I'd love to have him on my team and I'd be willing to pay Lindholm in return -- only if Lindholm is absolutely impossible to sign.


On the flipside, Toronto already has Rielly. Lindholm IMO is fairly better now, and also I think has the slight edge long-term as far as potential goes, but that's not to say Rielly can't become a totally legit 1D. They're both lefties, so I don't see Toronto making this trade at all.


Can we all agree on this and be friends?

 

[meefer]

I've actually been able to catch more Leafs games than Ducks games this season so far


Marner really stood out each time. Still a bit bumpy, but he showed flashes of elite ability and definitely looked like he belonged. Very smart player, fast, skilled. I'd love to have him on my team and I'd be willing to pay Lindholm in return -- only if Lindholm is absolutely impossible to sign.


On the flipside, Toronto already has Rielly. Lindholm IMO is fairly better now, and also I think has the slight edge long-term as far as potential goes, but that's not to say Rielly can't become a totally legit 1D. They're both lefties, so I don't see Toronto making this trade at all.


Can we all agree on this and be friends?

Elf, as a Leaf fan, you can play on my team all day long; my god, a reasonable response, I love it

Both fan bases like their player, why wouldn't they? Leafs must see what type of player Marner turns into, he's got drool worthy talent. Lindholm, there's not a team who wouldn't want him.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I've actually been able to catch more Leafs games than Ducks games this season so far


Marner really stood out each time. Still a bit bumpy, but he showed flashes of elite ability and definitely looked like he belonged. Very smart player, fast, skilled. I'd love to have him on my team and I'd be willing to pay Lindholm in return -- only if Lindholm is absolutely impossible to sign.


On the flipside, Toronto already has Rielly. Lindholm IMO is fairly better now, and also I think has the slight edge long-term as far as potential goes, but that's not to say Rielly can't become a totally legit 1D. They're both lefties, so I don't see Toronto making this trade at all. Sums it up quite succinctly.


Can we all agree on this and be friends?

Absolutely (friends), I think both fan bases actually seem to like/value each player quite a bit but each probably stands pat due to fit/where each respective team is competition wise (playoff team vs rebuild/youth movement).

 

[Guffman]

I read the first page of this troll thread and had a hearty guffaw reading that the forum Leafs fans would scoff at this.

Well done, OP.

 

[Gurglesons]

Not a huge fan of either team, but living in California and just having a constant barrage of Toronto love from watching and listening to a lot of that city's media I think this is a pretty fair trade.

 

[Sniper99]

Nah, Leafs stick with Marner.

 

[Willy Styles]

Marner has looked better than Auston Matthews so far, and everyone even the marner homers thought marner would have a hard time adjusting. He drives the play and makes NHL defenders look like their in the OHL

I understand Lindholm is probably the best young defender in the league right now, both teams look long and hard at this trade and respectfully decline

 

[HoweHullOrr]

This would make sense if we could trade Gardiner for Trouba.. and find a way to abolish the salary cap so we could actually afford both of them.. and then find a new top line winger on an ELC without giving up assets. But other than that, definitely doable.

both teams say no, lindholm is their number 1 defender while Marner is unreal..

Going to guess that fellow Bud fans will think they can get Lindholm somehow for much less. Its the way we roll. LOL.

 

[LoovTrain]

Rielly is better offensive, Lindholm is better defense.

I think Rielly is more appealing to the eye because he plays a more risky/flashy game, stats will side to lindholm.


People can say power house duck team but part of the reason it's a power house is because of lindholm, and Fowler is closer to nylander that nylander is to lindholm.

While I generally agree with you, I wonder what Lindholm's stats are going to look like after a year or two in Randy's 'system'...

 

[Nithoniniel]

Absolutely (friends), I think both fan bases actually seem to like/value each player quite a bit but each probably stands pat due to fit/where each respective team is competition wise (playoff team vs rebuild/youth movement).

Yeah.

I'm a bit surprised the discussion is still ongoing since: 1) Both teams seem to agree that there's no trade coming 2) Both teams like the other player, but want to stand pat.

Just seems that people take any slight deviation in opinion as an insult, and then devolve the discussion into a pissing match.

 

[I am Canadian]

I'd give Ehlers or Connor from the Jets for Lindholm, easily. I'm surprised any Leaf fans are saying no to this. I don't think Marner is on another tier than those guys.

You don't think Marner is on a different level than Connor or Ehlers?... wut

 

[Omac13]

I made a comment way back on the first page about the leafs not doing this deal because they have Neilson and Dermott coming up. Someone was quick to point out that the fact that they have looked good for 2 AHL games don't mean the leafs have depth on D. Yes your right, right now Dermott and Neilson are just that Young AHL players trying to develop themselves. However between them both there are obvious signs that point to the fact that "IF" they develop into what they are projected to be the future is bright for the Leafs D Core anchored by Rielly and Z.
Nothing is guaranteed but I believe there is enough coming through the pipe that you do not need to have to move Marner or Nylander to acquire another top flight young D man like Lindholm. How many teams build their D core of 2-3 D studs? Hardly any. Most contending teams have 1 guy doing a lot of the heavy lifting and then fill the rest of their D out with great secondary guys. Look at the last 3 Stanley cup winners. Pens, Hawks, Kings.

Pens- Letang legit number 1. The rest of that D core are number 2-6 guys

Kings- Doughty is the legit number 1. Muzzin and the rest fill in their spots 2-6

Hawks.- Keith legit number 1. Seabrook and the rest of the core fill out the 2-6 spots.

I know some people will try and argue that Muzzin and Seabrook are number 1 guys they are not, if they are the guys doing all the heavy lifting on your team you will be in trouble. They fit into their roles great one spot behind a legit 1 guy in Doughty and Keith.

Leafs have that Number 1 guy developing right now in Rielly.

Z is developing and maybe he is the 2 maybe hes a 3-4 but he looks like he will fill a role in the top 4 for this team long term.

Gards we know what we are getting. He is a 3-4.

That's 3 legit guys in the top 4. They need to develop one more.

Between Carrick, Neilson , Dermott, Loov, Marchinin, Valiev we have 6 guys who all have NHL potential and in terms of Dermott and Neilson they have top 4 Potential but who knows which one will become that guy only time will tell. I like the leafs chances of filling their next top 4 D man from their prospect pool. Once that is established it wont be hard to fill out the 5-6-7 guys and the leafs D core will be in place. It wont be this year and that's fine, we have 3 studs up front developing as well, so time is on our side. No need to rush anything and make a trade for Lindholm, just let this thing play out and see what we have.


Just a Note. I am all for trading for Lindholm or Trouba , As long as the cost is not Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Z, 1st round pick 2017

If we can work a deal around 2nd round picks, prospects(leispic, Kap) By all means lets deal. Not at the cost of the above players I would rather just see what we have in our kids

 

[BayStreetBully]

Yeah.

I'm a bit surprised the discussion is still ongoing since: 1) Both teams seem to agree that there's no trade coming 2) Both teams like the other player, but want to stand pat.

Just seems that people take any slight deviation in opinion as an insult, and then devolve the discussion into a pissing match.

Yeah, I think Leafs and Ducks fan are in agreement here. Enter third party who can't help himself and must chime in with some "you wouldn't trade Marner for Lindholm?!! Hahaha" remark. There's your answer for why this is still ongoing.

 

[Omac13]

You don't think Marner is on a different level than Connor or Ehlers?... wut

The only player to be above Marner his whole way up through Hockey in Ontario or Canada for that matter was McDavid.

Problem with convincing people that Marner is that good is they knock his size. Your wasting your time trying to convince people that Marner is better than their prospects you just have to wait and let the season/ Career play out.

You and I both know that Marner is a superstar in the making. He will be in the same conversation as Matthews when this is all said and done. Nylander will be behind both these guys.

Few players ever have done what Marner has done in JR hockey. Yes its JR hockey but 99% of star NHL Canadians came through that same system that tells you something right now.

Like I said in the start don't waste your energy, when someone knocks his size yes nod and smile and enjoy watching him develop into the superstar he is going to be!

 

[The Podium]

Leafs finish bottom five again.

Draft Liljegren and have a long term solution at top pairing RD. Don't need Lindholm after that (would still love to have him but wouldnt need him) and clear millions in cap space from expiring contract to add to any other hole in the roster.

 

[Gavy]

I like how Larkin was our best forward last year (and our best after two games last season) yet would need multitle pluses for Rielly, yet Marner is worth more than an even better D in Lindholm.

Why are you making things up? You're making things up to be mad at them

 

[Gavy]

Lol so much bs in one post I love it

Lol love when someone calls bs but gives no explanation

 

[Moose Head]

Marner is Mike Ribeiro with a better disposition and better wheels.

 

[leafsfan1234]

Marner is Mike Ribeiro with a better disposition and better wheels.

woah, woah, woah, slow down there bud, he needs to prove he's better than Gagner first...

 

[Moose Head]

woah, woah, woah, slow down there bud, he needs to prove he's better than Gagner first...

Just before you think is was an insult, Ribeiro main weaknesses are his slight frame, his general attitude and his skating. Marner's got 2 of 3 of those covered. Should make for a nice career IMO.

 

[NiL8r87]

I don't think Anaheim has the leverage to ask for Marner, and they'd never find a deal for a forward prospect as good on the open market anyway. I think they'd end up having to take a prospect on a slightly lower tier (Nylander or someone else from another team).

The more likely scenario is they trade Fowler.

 

[xxreact9]

Lindholm isn't better than Rielly, first of all. Switch Rielly to the powerhouse Ducks and Lindholm to the basement Leafs for the last 3 years and Rielly would have done so much better.

When they both play best on best Rielly is better.

And Marner is more valuable than Larkin. Larkin is more on par with Nylander.


And Fowler wouldn't get you remotely close to Nylander, by the way. Hilarious.


When will people learn that more proven =/= better? I would get it if it were a prospect that wasn't a sure thing. But Marner is a 1st overall talent who was in a stacked draft. And he's only gotten better and better. Hampus is very good. But he isn't a bonefide #1D yet. Well, on Anaheim he's close. But that's only because he has such a fantastic team supporting him. Look at all the other young Ds around the NHL near his age. They all play on teams that have been crappy up until this point (And not because of them). Put Lindholm on a team like Buffalo/Toronto/Winnipeg and and Risto/Rielly/Trouba would look better if they were playing on Anaheim. Toronto wouldn't trade Marner for Rielly. Lindholm is only viewed as better than Rielly because of team support. Case closed

This is an absolutely terrible argument and is so wrong. I'll disprove it right now.

The possession numbers of EVERY SINGLE player on the Anaheim ducks drastically, and I mean really drastically, increased when playing with Lindholm. He made every player on his team better. The results are in direct contradiction to your assertion that Lindholm was a product of a good team. Look how bad they are right now without him? See link. Lindholm has a ton of a support as an already top-10, future top-5 defender in the world.

Lindholm is far better than Rielly, it isn't even close. He's also worth far more than Marner, as much as it hurts. He's a 22 year old who is ALREADY a true established #1 defender in this league. He's a literal top-10 defender at age 22. His upside is top-3 defender in the world. Marner's upside isn't a top-3 forward in the world, and forwards are way easier to produce than top defenders. Not a knock on Marner, he should become an elite winger. But risk weighs in, position weighs in, Lindholm has proved way more, etc... The value of the asset is simply worth more.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...s-lindholm-changing-way-judge-nhl-defencemen/