Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part IV

[The Apologist]

10 should be his max, if he come in at 10 or less (hopefully with term) Dubas did a good job.

However, I believe the Dubas haters will be here in full force no matter what happens.

I would nkt be shocked or annoyed if he gets 11 AND term. 5 years at that and Dubas needs to be shown the door.

 

[Walshy7]

I have a feeling Mitch Marner will be traded next weekend.


if it's true that Ferris is intentionally waiting for July 1st, so he can get a 12.5M offer-sheet, it's going to force Dubas' hand. He knows that the Leafs shouldn't match that offer, so he'll trade Marner beforehand to get more than just the picks for Marner.

lets hope not but if he is, I put the blame solely on Marner in that scenario. His agent via him of course. He is in no universe worth $12.5m

 

[18leafsfan18]

So all you guys who hate Marner now because of bunch of obnoxious BS that you've made up, are you still going to hate Marner after he signs a reasonable contract like a reasonable person? Are you going to take back all the awful things you said about him? How's that going to work?

Please explain the BS.

Most on here argue he isn't better then Matthews and show his stats, would hardly call that hating on him or obnoxious BS

 

[The Apologist]

Please explain the BS.

Most on here argue he isn't better then Matthews and show his stats, would hardly call that hating on him or obnoxious BS

i actually do think Mitch is better but i also think the Mathews contract was a complete fail.

 

[Cor]

i agree he's worth 11 per. i think the term bringing him to UFA paints a fairly clear picture. It may be the pessimist in me too however there just seems to be too many signs indicating a 'me first' attitude on this team at the top . i didnt expect Mitch would be one of them though.

I mean, it's not like 5 years was the longest or only term Matthews was willing to go. Reportedly the Matthews camp originally offered a 2 or 3 year term at 9M. They also discussed a 7 or 8 year deal as well.

I'm not worried about the term what so ever. I think it speaks volumes that Matthews' negotiation was quick and easy. He wants to be here. Didn't want things to drag out. No unreasonable demands and worked with the Leafs on numerous different contract lengths to give us some flexibility. He's going to be our captain most likely.

Again, I 100% understand why some are concerned with it, especially with how we just got Tavares, but my perspective is it's a non-issue.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I would nkt be shocked or annoyed if he gets 11 AND term. 5 years at that and Dubas needs to be shown the door.

All depends on cap hit, as far as term, for me as long as it doesn't match up with the same year as Matthews and Nylander, I'm okay with it. So I guess 6-8 would be okay.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think he is 100% worth 11.6M

Is the term a year or two short? Sure, but it's not like he's overpaid. If he signs an extension, it doesn't matter. Of course if he walks, that's a different story, but if we are worrying about things half a decade from now, we won't enjoy this team much.

I firmly believe we can build a winning team around Tavares and Matthews making a combined 22.6M. That's the big factor for me.

I can understand where you're coming from though. Just a difference of perspective.

It's 3 years too short and has a significant roll-over affect into this negoiation. All 3 RFA negoiations have gone terribly from the team perspective. You can't make the guy the 2nd highest paid player in the league and only buy one UFA year.

 

[The Apologist]

All depends on cap hit, as far as term, for me as long as it doesn't match up with the same year as Matthews and Nylander, I'm okay with it. So I guess 6-8 would be okay.

8 years at 11? get er done. Mitch will cover that.

 

[18leafsfan18]

i actually do think Mitch is better but i also think the Mathews contract was a complete fail.

I don't understand this narrative. Guy makes less then McDavid and more then Eichel, where else should he have fit in ?

You can argue term, but noone at all knows what term is worth, all just speculation and random numbers.

 

[Mr Hockey]

How does Kucherov taking less money than he deserves help Marner make more money?

It does the opposite... Obviously.

Kucherov outgrew the contract the next season, he is what 4-5 mil AAV underpaid now?

 

[18leafsfan18]

8 years at 11? get er done. Mitch will cover that.

I think 11 is too high, I think 10 is the number IMO.

But none of us really know all that much.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

So all you guys who hate Marner now because of bunch of obnoxious BS that you've made up, are you still going to hate Marner after he signs a reasonable contract like a reasonable person? Are you going to take back all the awful things you said about him? How's that going to work?

I don't hate Marner at all and I actually agree with some of the arguments being thrown around that he is worth X because Matthews was paid Y. I'm just concerned I see something slipping away here. This isn't what this team culture was supposed to be under the Shanaplan.

I say take a stand now to send a message both monetarily but more important, culturally or this core is doomed. Keeping them at these salaries will lead to a decade of same-old imo.

 

[Walshy7]

So all you guys who hate Marner now because of bunch of obnoxious BS that you've made up, are you still going to hate Marner after he signs a reasonable contract like a reasonable person? Are you going to take back all the awful things you said about him? How's that going to work?

awful things? share some quote please
ive seen he is greedy - asking for too much money or you leave is the definition of greedy
ive seen he isn't a center - well he isn't

awful? either the most hyperbole possible or a very quick to be offended person, your posting history doesn't suggest easily offended so hyperbole

 

[Cor]

I don't understand this narrative. Guy makes less then McDavid and more then Eichel, where else should he have fit in ?

You can argue term, but noone at all knows what term is worth, all just speculation and random numbers.

IIRC, the reported deals on the table were 2x9, 5x11.6 and 7x13-14

 

[Joey Hoser]

whos hating on him?

Ummm... Are you reading this thread?

 

[Walshy7]

Kucherov outgrew the contract the next season, he is what 4-5 mil AAV underpaid now?

haha, yeah marner tries to argue that take and they will be laughed out of the office

 

[Notsince67]

Not sure that was the point he was making lmao

The point is that there is no problem looking at percentage of cap when it is handy.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It's 3 years too short and has a significant roll-over affect into this negoiation. All 3 RFA negoiations have gone terribly from the team perspective. You can't make the guy the 2nd highest paid player in the league and only buy one UFA year.

Matthews was willing to do an 8 year deal I believe. It was just going to be at like 13.5 mill, which despite being a higher cap hit than McDavid, is a lower cap percentage.

 

[93LEAFS]

Matthews was willing to do an 8 year deal I believe. It was just going to be at like 13.5 mill, which despite being a higher cap hit than McDavid, is a lower cap percentage.

That while a huge deal is more preferable than paying what we paid to only buy one UFA year. That negotiation was botched. Realistically though, we have an issue because it seems every single player wants to absolutely maximize what they are paid outside of Tavares. Players have no interest in doing a team friendly deal here and it is killing us.

 

[Mr Hockey]

haha, yeah marner tries to argue that take and they will be laughed out of the office

Marner is going to ask for fair market and team value, for the length of the contract, he is going to make sure he doesn't outgrow his contracts like Kuch or Pasta did

 

[Pi]

That while a huge deal is more preferable than paying what we paid to only buy one UFA year. That negotiation was botched. Realistically though, we have an issue because it seems every single player wants to absolutely maximize what they are paid outside of Tavares. Players have no interest in doing a team friendly deal here and it is killing us.

Yeah, I would have done 13.5M for 8 years for Matthews. Players would have been making more than 13.5M about 5 years into that deal anyways.

We can't get no term and give high $$. That is why Marner's contract has to be right or he needs to be traded.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

That while a huge deal is more preferable than paying what we paid to only buy one UFA year. That negotiation was botched. Realistically though, we have an issue because it seems every single player wants to absolutely maximize what they are paid outside of Tavares. Players have no interest in doing a team friendly deal here and it is killing us.

Ok but what is Dubas supposed to do about that? If the player doesn't want to sign a team-friendly deal, then your option is to trade him or give him a non team-friendly deal. Either way he looks bad, and it's not like any other GM would be able to do something different if they were in his situation.

Unless they have a gun to hold to their head or something... I guess that is what Lou does, but he's far from a negotiating wizard himself.

 

[biotk]

It's amazing people forget that Matthews gets sheltered minutes considering his status.

He doesn't.

Denial is a SOB, they don't want to accept the huge overpay and all the supporting evidence. Obviously Marner feels insulted, they gave Matthews 2m of his potential sallary and then said, you're not as good despite he playing tougher comp and putting up more numbers.

If Marner feels insulted then he is free to accept an offer sheet somewhere else. A player feeling insulted doesn't obligate a team to overpay him.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yeah, I would have done 13.5M for 8 years for Matthews. Players would have been making more than 13.5M about 5 years into that deal anyways.

We can't get no term and give high $$. That is why Marner's contract has to be right or he needs to be traded.

Problem is, we give him 13.5 mill x 8, we can't afford other guys. 2 mill may not seem like a lot but that is a quality depth player you just lost in some way or another.

Meanwhile, you give him 5 years and maybe you end up paying him 15-15.5 mill on his next deal, but that cap will probably be close to 100 mill by then. So while you did not get as much of a steal in the last 3 years of that deal as you would if you gave him 13.5, you were able to afford to add guys for a playoff run in all of the years of his contract, rather than being totally poor for the first 2 or 3 years of Matthews contract and then having a lot of extra wiggle room for the last 3 years.

 

[93LEAFS]

Ok but what is Dubas supposed to do about that? If the player doesn't want to sign a team-friendly deal, then your option is to trade him or give him a non team-friendly deal. Either way he looks bad, and it's not like any other GM would be able to do something different if they were in his situation.

Unless they have a gun to hold to their head or something... I guess that is what Lou does, but he's far from a negotiating wizard himself.

Some teams are able to create a culture where guys take team friendly deals or are more skilled negotiators.

What he shouldn't do is make stupid statements in his media availability time that box him into a corner. He clearly did a bad job on all the RFA negotiations.