Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part IV

[Notsince67]

Kucherov gets paid 9.5 and is the best offensive player in the NHL. Kucherov also plays the wing. So how can Marner's camp justify their demands of demands of 11.5 to 12.5 which is elite centre money??? Marner has done nothing that in the NHL the makes him worthy of being paid like he has. Marner needs to be shown the door. Trade him to a hockey wasteland like Arizona or Florida so he watch the endorsement money fade away much like his chances at winning.

How can you justify Matthews getting 3MM than Stamkos?

 

[The CyNick]

I mean for your analogy to make sense you'd be claiming Andreychuck is in the class of Matthews or Tavares, so...

Doesn't follow. You're trying to claim it's all about the goals. Therefore a guy like Dougie must not be at the level of Andy.

I'm just saying marner does more right now than matthews. I think both are elite and it makes sense that they would get similar compensation.

 

[thewave]

#1 centers regularly play on the #1 line.

It's amazing people forget that Matthews gets sheltered minutes considering his status. Denial is a SOB, they don't want to accept the huge overpay and all the supporting evidence. Obviously Marner feels insulted, they gave Matthews 2m of his potential sallary and then said, you're not as good despite he playing tougher comp and putting up more numbers.

 

[MyBudJT]

Kucherov gets paid 9.5 and is the best offensive player in the NHL. Kucherov also plays the wing. So how can Marner's camp justify their demands of demands of 11.5 to 12.5 which is elite centre money??? Marner has done nothing that in the NHL the makes him worthy of being paid like he has. Marner needs to be shown the door. Trade him to a hockey wasteland like Arizona or Florida so he watch the endorsement money fade away much like his chances at winning.

Look at Kucherov's production by his U22 season.

Now look at Marner's production by his U22 season.

That is your answer.

 

[Cor]

Look at Kucherov's production by his U22 season.

Now look at Marner's production by his U22 season.

That is your answer.

Development isn't linear.

 

[FlareKnight]

Look at Kucherov's production by his U22 season.

Now look at Marner's production by his U22 season.

That is your answer.

No....that's not actually an answer as to why Marner should be the highest paid winger in hockey. But thanks for playing.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The JT contract is not being disputed. You expect to overpay to get an elite UFA to switch teams.

Matthews is grossly overpaid based on the term of the deal.

You seemed to say matthews and marner are close in points. One guy was close to 100 and the other guy barely cracked 70.

As for the centre- wing thing. Kane got the same deal as Toews. Who would you rather have today?

And matthews isn't even elite at the position yet. He was a minus player on a team that had one of the best plus minus in the league and he didn't even draw the top defenders or centers most of the season.

I think both guys are superb talents. I want them both here as long ad possible, but this weak narrative that Marner is inferior to matthews has no legs to stand on. Marner is on his way to becoming one of the best 200ft players in the league. Matthews isn't there nor anywhere close.

Come on. Rounding? Did you know Matthews scored almost 80 points and Marner barely more than 90?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Doesn't follow. You're trying to claim it's all about the goals. Therefore a guy like Dougie must not be at the level of Andy.

I'm just saying marner does more right now than matthews. I think both are elite and it makes sense that they would get similar compensation.

And I disagree.

Edit to elaborate:

Matthews and Tavares do way more to create their own offense than a player like big-butt-in-front Andreychuk did.

And to say Marner does more than Matthews right now...no. Matthews' point pace was identical to Marner's with almost double the goal pace all while playing with greatly inferior linemates and likely dealing with lingering injury effects even after returning to the lineup.

There's just no comparison.

 

[Nineteen67]

How do you see Marner making out with, say, Johnson and Gauthier as his linemates? Because that's basically what Matthews was saddled with all last season. Everyone says Marner can drive a line on his own, shouldn't see any drop in production, right? BS.

Tavares got a whopping extra 3 points this season with Marner. Marner's totals went up by 35 points. Not hard to see who benefited who the most in that equation.

If I was GM I'd offer him 1 year at whatever salary Marner demands then put him with a couple of plugs for the season to demonstrate this point to him and his camp.

(Not really, just a thought experiment)

Gauthier isn’t an NHL player.

 

[ToneDog]

It's amazing people forget that Matthews gets sheltered minutes considering his status. Denial is a SOB, they don't want to accept the huge overpay and all the supporting evidence. Obviously Marner feels insulted, they gave Matthews 2m of his potential sallary and then said, you're not as good despite he playing tougher comp and putting up more numbers.

Can you say total f*** up on Dubas' part ??

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Gauthier isn’t an NHL player.

My apologies to the Gauthier family.

 

[Matthews34]

Look at Kucherov's production by his U22 season.

Now look at Marner's production by his U22 season.

That is your answer.

Because one players production explodes after 22 so all players will. Where do come up with this nonsense??? Kucherov is the exception not the rule.

 

[Matthews34]

How can you justify Matthews getting 3MM than Stamkos?

When that contract was signed no player made over 11 million. Compare apples to apples.

 

[Cor]

I have a feeling Mitch Marner will be traded next weekend.


if it's true that Ferris is intentionally waiting for July 1st, so he can get a 12.5M offer-sheet, it's going to force Dubas' hand. He knows that the Leafs shouldn't match that offer, so he'll trade Marner beforehand to get more than just the picks for Marner.

 

[93LEAFS]

imo some people are seriously underestimating the value of four consecutive unprotected 1st rounders in this thread.

I would take that offer from a lot of teams. Franchises routinely overestimate their talent. Apparently fans do too, already in the trade thread I had fans from Pittsburgh, Buffalo and the Islanders eager to give up 4 1st rounders and convinced they were making the playoffs for the next 4 years. And having good players on ELC's are some of the most valuable assets in the game. We could have a steady pipeline of ELC contributors that we could never get with our own picks.

Unless you get a top 5 pick, the value of first rounders around here is actually dramatically overvalued. The hit rate on picks in the 10-20 range tends to be 50% that you get a player of actual value (top 9 forward, top 4 defender, starting goalie). You need it to go wrong in the way it did for us when we signed Kessel for it to pay off for us.

 

[ACC1224]

I have a feeling Mitch Marner will be traded next weekend.


if it's true that Ferris is intentionally waiting for July 1st, so he can get a 12.5M offer-sheet, it's going to force Dubas' hand. He knows that the Leafs shouldn't match that offer, so he'll trade Marner beforehand to get more than just the picks for Marner.

No team will pay the price Marner demands without an extension first.
If they are actually waiting for July 1 that won't change.

 

[thewave]

Can you say total **** up on Dubas' part ??

I would like to but I doubt I would be able to like posts. I am the biggest idiot in this thread though, I was hard on Dubas about 400k or whatever it was for Nylander, then he did the Matthews deal and all that seems so trivial.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I have a feeling Mitch Marner will be traded next weekend.


if it's true that Ferris is intentionally waiting for July 1st, so he can get a 12.5M offer-sheet, it's going to force Dubas' hand. He knows that the Leafs shouldn't match that offer, so he'll trade Marner beforehand to get more than just the picks for Marner.

If he is going to let his agent use tactics like this, he should be traded. He will be one of the biggest villain in Maple Leafs history if this goes down.

No matter what happens Dubas will be blamed.

I honestly think at this point Marner could sign for 9 and everyone would still hate on Dubas.

 

[Notsince67]

When that contract was signed no player made over 11 million. Compare apples to apples.

Really...yet i thought Malkin was Matthews comparable.

 

[MyBudJT]

Development isn't linear.

No....that's not actually an answer as to why Marner should be the highest paid winger in hockey. But thanks for playing.

Because one players production explodes after 22 so all players will. Where do come up with this nonsense??? Kucherov is the exception not the rule.

Guys, guys! The question was "How can Marner's camp justify their demands of 11.5-12.5".

I was simply throwing out ONE explanation, and you guys start bashing me! Also taxes play a large factor. Kucherov gets approximately 20% more take-home money by playing in Tampa. Not to mention that he'd also get paid more just from cap inflation alone.

I don't like the 11.5-12.5M demand as much as the next guy, but lets not pretend like Marner is in the tier of Nylander/Ehlers/Forsberg etc. This guy is already a border-line superstar at the age of 22!!

 

[Raymoondo]

Really...yet i thought Malkin was Matthews comparable.

Not sure that was the point he was making lmao

 

[Joey Hoser]

I have a feeling Mitch Marner will be traded next weekend.


if it's true that Ferris is intentionally waiting for July 1st, so he can get a 12.5M offer-sheet, it's going to force Dubas' hand. He knows that the Leafs shouldn't match that offer, so he'll trade Marner beforehand to get more than just the picks for Marner.

This seems incredibly stupid, honestly. Nobody is going to give up four first round picks so they can pay Marner 12.5 million. Also, let's pretend he does hold out for the most expensive contract in the league, that's actually going to cost him more money than it gets him, seeing as wherever else he goes, he's won't get the level of endorsements that he'll get here.

Makes no sense.

 

[93LEAFS]

Why is McAvoy not eligible for an OS?

Same reason Nylander, Draisaitl and Gaudreau weren't. Didn't earn a full season towards UFA in year one.

 

[Kiwi]

Can you say total **** up on Dubas' part ??

Yes, Matthews contract ******* sucks, now if we admit that reality should we do the exact same thing all over again with Marner?

I have a feeling Mitch Marner will be traded next weekend.


if it's true that Ferris is intentionally waiting for July 1st, so he can get a 12.5M offer-sheet, it's going to force Dubas' hand. He knows that the Leafs shouldn't match that offer, so he'll trade Marner beforehand to get more than just the picks for Marner.

Let him sign the 12.5M offersheet and don't match, take the picks, cap space and be done with it

 

[93LEAFS]

Yep, your choice to believe or not, totally understandable.
I trust where I heard it from.

Heard pretty much the exact same thing from someone very reliable. It would have been an overpay at the time, but would be ideal today.