Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part III

[Stephen]

Has McDavid and his line mates won the cup. I guess I missed it #pointless

They’ve won a playoff round...

 

[Stephen]

So now you only accept facts that support your narrative...priceless.

My narrative is they’re both elite players and there’s something to like about Draisatl so Marner isn’t clear cut better. The “facts” would point to this rather vanilla statement that would only upset a major Leaf homer.

 

[doorbag]

So is it safe to assume that he will be signing 10.5m at a minimum? If you guys could get him at 11.5 for 8 years I honestly think that would be a win. Marner is elite and as bad as the deal may look now I expect it will be a bargain in a few years once the cap goes up and more players on Skinner’s level are signing for 9-10m. Having him locked in for those extra years will be huge when it comes time to renew the Matthews deal.

 

[Walshy7]

So is it safe to assume that he will be signing 10.5m at a minimum? If you guys could get him at 11.5 for 8 years I honestly think that would be a win. Marner is elite and as bad as the deal may look now I expect it will be a bargain in a few years once the cap goes up and more players on Skinner’s level are signing for 9-10m. Having him locked in for those extra years will be huge when it comes time to renew the Matthews deal.

would you move Draisaitl for him straight up?

Assuming you are a oilers fan

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

would you move Draisaitl for him straight up?

Assuming you are a oilers fan

Draisaitl is arguably the better player, and his contract is going to be much better, plus he plays C.

I wouldn't trade Drai for Marner straight up from Oilers perspective

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

His breakout cane when he was put with Kadri who is making under 5m. So the weird argument is Ignoring his 90 plus point finish in the last 38 games including playoffs to the 2017-2018 season. To say otherwise is simply a lie.

And before that he was awful. If I'm going to pay someone 11M they need to produce no matter who they are paired with

 

[Bigmarycombo]

It’s an arrogant assumption that McDavid would have scored another dozen points with Marner on the wing when he played with a guy who scored 50 goals and had over 100 points. Maybe Marner sets up McDavid for more goals but who is finishing those opportunities when Marner isn’t a huge scorer?

Again, my main issue is Marner’s hype train is pretty outsized relative to the quality of other young players who are also excellent.

And finally. Until Magic Mitch can take us to a Stanley Cup like Kane did for the Hawks its perfectly reasonable to question whether is slight frame and style of play can actually translate into a long playoff run. Until then it’s acceptable to look at the Rantanen and Draisatl type players out there and make the argument they’re better built to play 28 games in the playoffs.

Marner has more playoff points than Matthews Nylander or any other of the young leafs.

 

[doorbag]

would you move Draisaitl for him straight up?

Assuming you are a oilers fan

No definitely not. They are pretty close as far as ability goes but Drai at 8.5m for seven more years is way more valuable to the Oilers than whatever upgrade skill wise Marner may bring.

 

[ACC1224]

No definitely not. They are pretty close as far as ability goes but Drai at 8.5m for seven more years is way more valuable to the Oilers than whatever upgrade skill wise Marner may bring.

Yeah, I don't think either Team would do it.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

He was a 69 point forward the year before.

Yes he was and that was the best on the leafs and that is with not very much ice time compared to Kucherov and draisitel.

A lot of posters forget in his first season he was leading the leafs in scoring until the last month or so when he got hurt and got mono shortly after.

So in reality he could have lead the leafs in scoring in all three of his entry level years. Quite an achievement for a small under sized winger.

 

[notdoneyet]

Can anyone please provide the following

Ice time and points at 20 , 21, 22 years
For Drai
marner
kucherov

Thank you

 

[MyBudJT]

Pretty obvious what I’m saying. Marner and Draisatl are pretty comparable young elite players.

Except that Marner has blown Draisatl out of the water in every age-year.

 

[notdoneyet]

Except that Marner has blown Draisatl out of the water in every age-year.

Can you post what I asked above

Thank you

 

[Nithoniniel]

Marner has more playoff points than Matthews Nylander or any other of the young leafs.

Through three playoffs, their respective stats look like this:

​	ES P​	ES P/60​	ES CF%​	ES xGF%​	ES GF%​	QoC​	QoT​	PP P​	PP P/60​
Matthews​	10​	1.84​	51.5​	54.68​	45.16​	30.1​	30.7​	3​	4.06​
Marner​	8​	1.61​	45.42​	50.07​	50.00​	29.8​	31.2​	6​	8.05​
Nylander​	9​	1.9​	54.07​	56.92​	56.00​	29.7​	30.9​	1​	1.62​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Included some contextual numbers beyond the zone start-adjustments since I know that would come up anyway.

 

[MyBudJT]

Can you post what I asked above

Thank you

U20
MM: 77GP 19G 61P (16:49 TOI/GP | 2:23 PP TOI/GP)
LD: 37GP 2G 9P (12:42 TOI/GP | 1:50 PP TOI/GP)
NK: Did not play

U21
MM: 82GP 22G 69P (16:23 TOI/GP | 2:12 PP TOI/GP)
LD: 72GP 19G 51P (18:04 TOI/GP | 2:33 PP TOI/GP)
NK: 52GP 9G 18P (13:07 TOI/GP | 1:11 PP TOI/GP)

U22
MM: 82GP 26G 94P (19:49 TOI/GP| 2:35 PP TOI/GP)
LD: 82GP 29G 77P (18:53 TOI/GP | 2:55 PP TOI/GP)
NK: 82GP 29G 65P (14:57 TOI/GP | 2:12 PP TOI/GP)

 

[Walshy7]

Through three playoffs, their respective stats look like this:

ES P​	ES P/60​	ES CF%​	ES xGF%​	ES GF%​	QoC​	QoT​	PP P​	PP P/60​
Matthews​	10​	1.84​	51.5​	54.68​	45.16​	30.1​	30.7​	3​	4.06​
Marner​	8​	1.61​	45.42​	50.07​	50.00​	29.8​	31.2​	6​	8.05​
Nylander​	9​	1.9​	54.07​	56.92​	56.00​	29.7​	30.9​	1​	1.62​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Included some contextual numbers beyond the zone start-adjustments since I know that would come up anyway.

Wait he only has 1 more point than matthews? The way people talk about his playoffs like he is miles above the rest and 1 point more than our 1c?

Even worse is 1 less point 5 on 5 than the favourite whipping boy nylander.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

The idea that it’s self evident that Marner is better than Draisatl is not only problematic for the arrogance in assumption but also the kind of hype Marner has generated and will capitalize on.

For the record, Draisatl is a 100 point center who had a better playoff than McDavid side by side 2 years ago when he was Marner’s age.

He's NOt a 100 point center when 90 percent of his points co meon McDavid wing. Marner>>>Leon ainec

 

[Walshy7]

He's NOt a 100 point center when 90 percent of his points co meon McDavid wing. Marner>>>Leon ainec

John Tavares = chopped liver

 

[Skin Tape Session]

John Tavares = chopped liver

McDavid =trade request

 

[Walshy7]

McDavid =trade request

You lost me with this (I’m sure) very witty retort

 

[Stephen]

Except that Marner has blown Draisatl out of the water in every age-year.

Age Year isn’t very important. Just go reference all those Matthews Laine comparisons when Jets fans embarrassed themselves by saying Laine would eclipse Matthews by the time he’s X age. It’s not like Marner’s going to be scoring 50.

 

[notdoneyet]

Age Year isn’t very important. Just go reference all those Matthews Laine comparisons when Jets fans embarrassed themselves by saying Laine would eclipse Matthews by the time he’s X age. It’s not like Marner’s going to be scoring 50.

Of course age years don't matter

According to yiu marner has peaked and there is no where to go but down.

 

[MyBudJT]

Age Year isn’t very important. Just go reference all those Matthews Laine comparisons when Jets fans embarrassed themselves by saying Laine would eclipse Matthews by the time he’s X age. It’s not like Marner’s going to be scoring 50.

Be honest now, would you have predicted that Draisatl would have scored 50 a year ago?

Marner was the better goal scorer in junior, and has comparable NHL numbers to Leon prior to this season. Whose to say Marner doesn't come out to score 40-50 goals next season?

 

[Havoc]

Are we seriously comparing Marner to a 23 year old that just put up 50 goals.

Do you guys even understand how rare 50 goals is?

Literally two players have scored 50 goals in the last 6 years with a 2 year gap where nobody scored 50.

Ovechkin for 4 of those 6 years and Draisaitl last season.

Draisatl is also an elite center taking over 1000+ draws a season and winning over 600 of them.


It's amazing how nobody is willing to defend Nylander or Matthews but will go to any lengths to prove Marner is a god. It's funny how it's those same (anti) guys in the Nylander thread that treat Marner like he's Crosby. Is this even hockey or you guys just following Marner like some celebrity infatuation.

Oilers got the last laugh with the Draisatl contract. They're going to get more production for 1-2 million less than Marner, Laine, Rantanen etc.

 

[Menzinger]

As a said, there is no need for him to be used as a center on this team.

Which has been the case at every level of play since juniors...

Hes simply not a centre. And that's fine.