Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part III

[MyBudJT]

I’ll say it’s getting annoying. You are asking me to prove something that pros have proved numerous times? That’s ****ing weird man.

London used Dvorak instead or marner
When desperate mike babcock uses nylander not marner.

You ask why can’t he? Because pros continually choose not to use him. I ask why you think he can other than he’s your favourite player and being a centre makes him better or something.

I look forward to your reply but it’s clear this isn’t going anywhere so that’s me out. You can continue this with others

Honestly, after this post, I'm done responding to you until [mod] you stop twisting things.

I'm not asking you to prove anything. I was asking "What does Marner lack that you need in a centerman/what can centermen do that Marner can't?".

"He hasn't played it in 4 years" or "other coaches don't play him at center" or "He played on Dvorak's wing" isn't an answer to my question. Its an answer to completely different questions that nobody is posing. If you don't know, thats fine... but don't pretend that you have an answer, and then bash me claiming that I think I'm smarter than other coaches. Thats just ridiculous.

Lastly, just to throw this out there... Marner isn't my favourite player. He's behind Rielly and Matthews for me on the Leafs. There are a few other players in the NHL I like over Marner too... Not that you care or anything, but its another case of you misconstruing things.

 

[hamzarocks]

While people are debating pointless arguments on whether MM can be a center time is ticking for both him and dubas to reach an agreement. Something needs to be completed on the marner front before July 1st or our management team have blown this negotiation.

Long term deal, bridge deal, or block buster trade. Get the marner situation resolved and move onto fixing this team.

 

[Walshy7]

Honestly, after this post, I'm done responding to you until [mod] you stop twisting things.

I'm not asking you to prove anything. I was asking "What does Marner lack that you need in a centerman/what can centermen do that Marner can't?".

"He hasn't played it in 4 years" or "other coaches don't play him at center" or "He played on Dvorak's wing" isn't an answer to my question. Its an answer to completely different questions that nobody is posing. If you don't know, thats fine... but don't pretend that you have an answer, and then bash me claiming that I think I'm smarter than other coaches. Thats just ridiculous.

Lastly, just to throw this out there... Marner isn't my favourite player. He's behind Rielly and Matthews for me on the Leafs. There are a few other players in the NHL I like over Marner too... Not that you care or anything, but its another case of you misconstruing things.

[mod] the fact pros don’t use him as a centre is enough for me otherwise they’d use him. How f***ing hard is that to understand.

We were down a centre numerous times and nylander was used how the f*** isn’t that enough to let you know he can’t do it. Those quotes you put are answers.

You obviously don’t know why he can, I know I trust pros over forum guy. I’m sorry you seem like a good dude but this argument is ridiculous, I defer to pros not forum folks for issue like this

 

[diceman934]

[mod] the fact pros don’t use him as a centre is enough for me otherwise they’d use him. How ****ing hard is that to understand.

We were down a centre numerous times and nylander was used how the **** isn’t that enough to let you know he can’t do it. Those quotes you put are answers.

You obviously don’t know why he can, I know I trust pros over forum guy. I’m sorry you seem like a good dude but this argument is ridiculous, I defer to pros not forum folks for issue like this

Have a listen to Babcock talk about Marner he thinks he can play center and that’s was last year. Not playing him at center because his line is on fire is for the better of the team.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/makes-marner-special-mike-babcocks-eyes/


So a pro stated exactly what is being said here. You can now say you were wrong as you deferring to the pro excuse is gone.

 

[Superstar]

While people are debating pointless arguments on whether MM can be a center time is ticking for both him and dubas to reach an agreement. Something needs to be completed on the marner front before July 1st or our management team have blown this negotiation.

Long term deal, bridge deal, or block buster trade. Get the marner situation resolved and move onto fixing this team.

Maybe Marner and Dubas are doing the exact same arguments as here.

Marner: I'm a #1 centre and should be paid like one.
Dubas: No, you're not.

 

[Walshy7]

Have a listen to Babcock talk about Marner he thinks he can play center and that’s was last year. Not playing him at center because his line is on fire is for the better of the team.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/makes-marner-special-mike-babcocks-eyes/


So a pro stated exactly what is being said here. You can now say you were wrong as you deferring to the pro excuse is gone.

that is interesting ive never seen that thanks, very interesting to hear babs say that

weird he says he can play center but never played him there no?. The fact he still hasnt played him there in 3 seasons tells more than a 1 min 30 second segment where he says it once. Or are you saying Nylander is better at center? im not sure what you are going for here. Mike babcock puts Nylander at center over marner. I like nylander more than you but if marner was capable very obviously he'd be a much better option no? i mean you are always talking about his line driving abilities and nylander doesnt have line driving abilities to me that seems taylor made to move marner there when needed.

So the fact in actual games he hasnt used marner there ill still defer to pros because saying something and doing something are 2 very different things, not once in 241 games.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

[mod] the fact pros don’t use him as a centre is enough for me otherwise they’d use him. How ****ing hard is that to understand.

We were down a centre numerous times and nylander was used how the **** isn’t that enough to let you know he can’t do it. Those quotes you put are answers.

You obviously don’t know why he can, I know I trust pros over forum guy. I’m sorry you seem like a good dude but this argument is ridiculous, I defer to pros not forum folks for issue like this

I was on the train that Marner could be a center and still think maybe down the line he can be. However, you have to call a spade a spade. Right now Marner is not an NHL center. He's a superstar winger.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

If the Leafs can't resign their most talented young forwards they won't be seeing much playoff action in the 2020s.

 

[Walshy7]

I was on the train that Marner could be a center and still think maybe down the line he can be. However, you have to call a spade a spade. Right now Marner is not an NHL center. He's a superstar winger.

He’s not even just a superstar winger, he is still high potential to be top winger/player in the game. He just won’t be that as a centre

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Have a listen to Babcock talk about Marner he thinks he can play center and that’s was last year. Not playing him at center because his line is on fire is for the better of the team.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/makes-marner-special-mike-babcocks-eyes/


So a pro stated exactly what is being said here. You can now say you were wrong as you deferring to the pro excuse is gone.

Actions speak louder than words. Plenty of opportunities to put Marner at center. Don't give me the line is on fire bull. Babcock lives for spreading the offense.

Regardless, I missed most of this thread. Why does Marner playing centre even matter? He's going to get paid regardless. He's a premier offensive winger and will be paid handsomely for his work. Center or not.

 

[Walshy7]

He’s not even just a superstar winger, he is still high potential to be top winger/player in the game. He just won’t be that as a centre

Edit: and there’s nothing wrong with that marner is that good as a winger

 

[A1LeafNation]

Edit: and there’s nothing wrong with that marner is that good as a winger

And should be paid like a winger not a center.

 

[diceman934]

that is interesting ive never seen that thanks, very interesting to hear babs say that

weird he says he can play center but never played him there no?. The fact he still hasnt played him there in 3 seasons tells more than a 1 min 30 second segment where he says it once. Or are you saying Nylander is better at center? im not sure what you are going for here. Mike babcock puts Nylander at center over marner. I like nylander more than you but if marner was capable very obviously he'd be a much better option no? i mean you are always talking about his line driving abilities and nylander doesnt have line driving abilities to me that seems taylor made to move marner there when needed.

So the fact in actual games he hasnt used marner there ill still defer to pros because saying something and doing something are 2 very different things, not once in 241 games.

Babs has said many times. He puts players together to win games. Taking Marner off of his line to play center kills his top line.

You can defer to who ever you want. Babs said it himself that he could play center. Any person who understands hockey knows that he can play center.

 

[Peasy]

This argument is so stupid.

Leaf fans really are the worst.

 

[kb]

This argument is so stupid.

Leaf fans really are the worst.

No, it's only Mitch, his dad, and his agent arguing this on here. The 3 ********.

 

[Havoc]

Are the Oilers responsible for the concept of the passage of time? Congratulations, they overpaid a player and a couple years his contract started to look better. Evil geniuses, they are.

Cap goes up, contracts go up. Draisaitl's deal is the equivalent of about $9.4 million this summer and that's probably the ballpark that Marner and Rantanen will fall in. The cycle will continue to repeat itself and people will continue to not understand it.

Edit: Just so I'm clear, Draisaitl is a tremendous player and absolutely worth his contract today. But let's not act like the Oilers pulled one over on him.

What part of my post made it seem like I was promoting the Oilers organization? Way to pick out one sentence and lose all context.

edit- While we're on the topic though, Oilers did get criticized for Draisatl's contract. So in a way they are getting the last laugh. Don't see how you can dispute that. I'm hoping the same occurs with our own Nylander.

 

[Stephen]

Horse poop you clearly made a very bias Statement and your attempt to backpedal will get you no where. At least take ownership of your opinions.

I'm not back pedaling. People around here talk about Marner like he's the greatest young player of his generation like this self evident truth, and actually outright dismissing a 23 year old center (and winger) with Auston Matthews' frame and a 50 goal/100 point season to his name and also 16 points in 13 playoff games in one post season at 21.

Maybe you feel like Marner has higher upside than that or you like his game more. That's fine. Hopefully he does. But a 6'3" 220 pound 50 goal scorer in the playoffs? I would have no problem with that instead of Marner, especially when you start thinking cap hit.

 

[Mr Hockey]

And should be paid like a winger not a center.

but he can dominate a game like a boss, from the wing ...

 

[Stephen]

Lol, well I never suggested he should! Was just asking whether he was capable.

If your question is whether Marner can play that all around 200 foot center game that you see Bergeron, Schenn and O'Reilly grinding out in the late stages of the finals, the answer is no. If your question is whether his playmaking ability and tenacious back checking makes him a center, the answer is still no.

 

[Pucker77]

If the Leafs sign Marner to $10+ mil they will have 3 of the 10 highest salaries in the NHL and all 3 of them would be forwards. That does not bode well for the future considering they need to really bolster their defense and it wont be cheap to do and Freddie is only 2 years from getting a raise and Rielly is only 3 years away.

They are really going to have to become creative.

 

[Havoc]

Babs has said many times. He puts players together to win games. Taking Marner off of his line to play center kills his top line.

You can defer to who ever you want. Babs said it himself that he could play center. Any person who understands hockey knows that he can play center.

You're name dropping Babcock to increase your credibility, but let's check in on some quick facts:

Game 6. Leafs up by 1. An injured Hyman takes the draw on the PK. This guy is so injured he needs multiple months of rehab right then and there.. Butchers the draw as he can't maintain balance. Boston gets a quick shot off and with the help of a deflection, scores. 1-1

Same game. Another powerplay for Boston. Babcock still thinks one legged Hyman is better than Marner at C on the PK. Boston goes up 2-1. Babcock's opinion still doesn't change. Hyman with one leg is better suited at C than Marner on the PK.

If Babcock was so high on Marner at center, it doesn't explain why he would let an injured Hyman take these key faceoffs. This is where a coach would turn to the guy he thinks has the ability to be an elite center. Especially in an elimination game.

Elimination game is worth more than some 2 second portion of a 3 minute clip in an interview Babcock probably doesn't even remember he did.

"He can play center" doesn't automatically mean Babcock thinks he can be an elite one. Do I think Marner can be an elite center? Yes. Do I have any evidence to prove why? No. Nothing besides my bias towards him as our MVP. I'm not going to go around telling others they don't understand hockey just because Marner can do no wrong in my eyes.


Unless of course I don't understand hockey to the point Hyman was actually playing goalie and I imagined everything I saw.

 

[A1LeafNation]

but he can dominate a game like a boss, from the wing ...

So... majority wingers don't make 10m let alone coming off their ELC.

 

[Mr Hockey]

So... majority wingers don't make 10m let alone coming off their ELC.

an elite winger (top 10 in points) is looked upon as an equal to a center ... just ask Mitch or his agent

 

[A1LeafNation]

an elite winger (top 10 in points) is looked upon as an equal to a center ... just ask Mitch or his agent

Agreed.

One year, not proven at all.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I see we've gone full-Nylander Chronicles here