Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part III

[Mess]

Correct no need for him to be a center currently on this team.
This all started days ago when it was suggested that the NYI would have no interest in offer sheeting Marner because they need a center.
When it was pointed out that he could easily play center on that team some couldn't be honest and admit that a player with his pedigree wouldn't have trouble moving to the middle.

I don't think any team potentially offersheeting Marner would be doing so with the idea they believe they're getting a top 6 centre, and he is simply being misused in Toronto.

If the Leafs themselves believed Marner was a future centre, then there would have been no need to sign Tavares, and blow up their own salary cap and internal team payscale.

Dubas is not factoring in any position change for Marner in contract talks, in fact likely the opposite is happening if Marner is using Matthews as his reference point for salary demands, and Leafs rebuttal being a #1C has more contract leverage because of position played. So Marner contract offer lower than both AM and JT, despite leading the team in scoring.

So the only people ever linking Marner to centre are Leaf fans, in what comes across as a straw man argument, because there never was/is any real debate ongoing about Marner playing centre in the NHL. It's only a hypothetical scenario tossed out to attempt to artificially increase Marner's value and refute others that claim he is a winger, which he is.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't think any team potentially offersheeting Marner would be doing so with the idea they believe they're getting a top 6 centre, and he is simply being misused on Toronto.

If the Leafs themselves believed Marner was a future centre, then there would have been no need to sign Tavares, and blow up their own salary cap and internal team payscale.

Dubas is not factoring in any position change for Marner in contract talks, in fact likely the opposite is happening if Marner is using Matthews as his reference point for salary demands, and Leafs rebuttal being a #1C has more contract leverage because of position played.

So the only people ever linking Marner to centre are Leaf fans, in what comes across as a straw man argument, because there never was/is any real debate ongoing about Marner playing centre in the NHL.

As a said, there is no need for him to be used as a center on this team.

 

[Stephen]

I wasn't arguing that Marner was better than Leon as it's obvious he is. All I was saying was Leon should put those numbers up centering his own line.

I have no doubt Marner would put up elite numbers on his own line. The difference between edm and us is we have the luxuary to built two tandems ( when Babcock is not being dumb) in nylander,Matthews and tavares Marner. If we only had Matthews and Marner I'd expect Marner to center ( he could regardless of HF filth) his own line and put up elite numbers. We don't have to do that.

The idea that it’s self evident that Marner is better than Draisatl is not only problematic for the arrogance in assumption but also the kind of hype Marner has generated and will capitalize on.

For the record, Draisatl is a 100 point center who had a better playoff than McDavid side by side 2 years ago when he was Marner’s age.

 

[Notsince67]

Admittedly, I haven't read every post. I don't think people are suggesting to put Marner at center. That debate is whether he is capable of playing center.

The discussion evolved to this in trying to dig a bit deeper as to why centers are paid more...generallt speaking. More specifically, what is the difference between an elite center and an elite forward.
Centers are primarily the play makers. They play 200 ft hockey. Anyone who thinks a center is defined by their faceoff abilities knows nothing about the game. It has been proven time after time the faceoff wins have little impact in total to a game. The very things that make good centers...the ability to drive a line and play a 200 ft game are the very abilities that the nhl teams will pay for. Marner has it in spades.

 

[horner]

Skinner signed 9 mil a yrs.
Some people think he will sign for 9.5 mil .
Good luck
Try 10.5 mil a yr.

 

[diceman934]

Dangle is right, his team is leaking yo the media to pump his value to the fans eyes. That way when he signs, he will get the hero's thank you and applause even though he gets his true real value.

9.516 x 7 or 9.916 x 8. The media will say because its under 10 he gave them a home town discount, and anyone who knows how to compare contracts and cap %s will know he got pretty much full value.

He will not sign those contracts as the term has been set. For 5 years it will be over 10m per for 7 or 8 he will be the highest paid Leaf.

 

[diceman934]

That’s a weird argument to make when Marner’s breakout came the year we gave him an $11 million a year franchise center to work with.

His breakout cane when he was put with Kadri who is making under 5m. So the weird argument is Ignoring his 90 plus point finish in the last 38 games including playoffs to the 2017-2018 season. To say otherwise is simply a lie.

 

[diceman934]

The discussion evolved to this in trying to dig a bit deeper as to why centers are paid more...generallt speaking. More specifically, what is the difference between an elite center and an elite forward.
Centers are primarily the play makers. They play 200 ft hockey. Anyone who thinks a center is defined by their faceoff abilities knows nothing about the game. It has been proven time after time the faceoff wins have little impact in total to a game. The very things that make good centers...the ability to drive a line and play a 200 ft game are the very abilities that the nhl teams will pay for. Marner has it in spades.

it is the same group of one players fans who push an agenda that creates this nonsense. Marner plays like a center does but unless he takes a faceoff then he is not a center. Anyone who watched playoffs games saw he provided down low coverage most of the time when Nylander was on the ice. It was Marleau same as it is most of the time with Marner.

 

[Stephen]

His breakout cane when he was put with Kadri who is making under 5m. So the weird argument is Ignoring his 90 plus point finish in the last 38 games including playoffs to the 2017-2018 season. To say otherwise is simply a lie.

What are you yammering on about? You’re comparing two young elite players in Marner and Draisatl who offer very different skill sets and have played with other elite players in McDavid and Tavares.

The real lie is pretending that Marner is the apex of young NHL forwards when there is so much comparable talent out there with their own strengths and weaknesses. He’s not clearly better and when people resort to production at various age comparisons it looks even more pathetic.

 

[diceman934]

What are you yammering on about? You’re comparing two young elite players in Marner and Draisatl who offer very different skill sets and have played with other elite players in McDavid and Tavares.

The real lie is pretending that Marner is the apex of young NHL forwards when there is so much comparable talent out there with their own strengths and weaknesses. He’s not clearly better and when people resort to production at various age comparisons it looks even more pathetic.

What are you yammer about. Go back and read the posts. I simply corrected your nonsense that Marner only took off when playing with a 11 m dollar a year player when the facts prove otherwise.

 

[kb]

What are you yammering on about? You’re comparing two young elite players in Marner and Draisatl who offer very different skill sets and have played with other elite players in McDavid and Tavares.

The real lie is pretending that Marner is the apex of young NHL forwards when there is so much comparable talent out there with their own strengths and weaknesses. He’s not clearly better and when people resort to production at various age comparisons it looks even more pathetic.

It's beyond pathetic, to be honest.

 

[diceman934]

What are you yammering on about? You’re comparing two young elite players in Marner and Draisatl who offer very different skill sets and have played with other elite players in McDavid and Tavares.

The real lie is pretending that Marner is the apex of young NHL forwards when there is so much comparable talent out there with their own strengths and weaknesses. He’snot clearly better and when people resort to production at various age comparisons it looks even more pathetic.

All I said about the two is that if Marner was with Connor he would have won the Art Ross again this year as he is an elite play maker.

 

[diceman934]

It's beyond pathetic, to be honest.

What is pathetic is calling others names with out understand what is being debated. #huge joke.

 

[Stephen]

it is the same group of one players fans who push an agenda that creates this nonsense. Marner plays like a center does but unless he takes a faceoff then he is not a center. Anyone who watched playoffs games saw he provided down low coverage most of the time when Nylander was on the ice. It was Marleau same as it is most of the time with Marner.

There’s no one way centres play. What you’re describing is a puck handling, playmaking winger.

 

[Stephen]

What are you yammer about. Go back and read the posts. I simply corrected your nonsense that Marner only took off when playing with a 11 m dollar a year player when the facts prove otherwise.

He was a 69 point forward the year before.

 

[Stephen]

What is pathetic is calling others names with out understand what is being debated. #huge joke.

It’s an arrogant assumption that McDavid would have scored another dozen points with Marner on the wing when he played with a guy who scored 50 goals and had over 100 points. Maybe Marner sets up McDavid for more goals but who is finishing those opportunities when Marner isn’t a huge scorer?

Again, my main issue is Marner’s hype train is pretty outsized relative to the quality of other young players who are also excellent.

And finally. Until Magic Mitch can take us to a Stanley Cup like Kane did for the Hawks its perfectly reasonable to question whether is slight frame and style of play can actually translate into a long playoff run. Until then it’s acceptable to look at the Rantanen and Draisatl type players out there and make the argument they’re better built to play 28 games in the playoffs.

 

[MyBudJT]

He was a 69 point forward the year before.

And Draisatl was a 51 point forward in his U21 season. Whats your point?

 

[Stephen]

And Draisatl was a 51 point forward in his U21 season. Whats your point?

Age/production comparisons are usually made by the weaker party, FYI. See Matthews vs Laine.

 

[horner]

He will not sign those contracts as the term has been set. For 5 years it will be over 10m per for 7 or 8 he will be the highest paid Leaf.

Yep

 

[diceman934]

There’s no one way centres play. What you’re describing is a puck handling, playmaking winger.

Lol when did I say anything of the sort.

I talked about providing down low coverage. I think you are debating with yourself.

 

[diceman934]

Age/production comparisons are usually made by the weaker party, FYI. See Matthews vs Laine.

So now you only accept facts that support your narrative...priceless.

 

[MyBudJT]

Age/production comparisons are usually made by the weaker party, FYI. See Matthews vs Laine.

LOL.

Then what are you suggesting? That U22 Marner is closer to his peak than U24 Draisatl?

 

[diceman934]

It’s an arrogant assumption that McDavid would have scored another dozen points with Marner on the wing when he played with a guy who scored 50 goals and had over 100 points. Maybe Marner sets up McDavid for more goals but who is finishing those opportunities when Marner isn’t a huge scorer?

Again, my main issue is Marner’s hype train is pretty outsized relative to the quality of other young players who are also excellent.

And finally. Until Magic Mitch can take us to a Stanley Cup like Kane did for the Hawks its perfectly reasonable to question whether is slight frame and style of play can actually translate into a long playoff run. Until then it’s acceptable to look at the Rantanen and Draisatl type players out there and make the argument they’re better built to play 28 games in the playoffs.

Has McDavid and his line mates won the cup. I guess I missed it #pointless

 

[Coachcorner]

Was wondering when is the day and time for us to push that lil button and make the kapanen/marleau/brown etc trade is what I was wondering? I mean the time is running out everyday on marner and we have to make it happen. Trade some suckas fast and get sum. We finna win big tyme this season! Already is! Invest on the leafs, cause they rich and making y'all even richer.

 

[Stephen]

LOL.

Then what are you suggesting? That U22 Marner is closer to his peak than U24 Draisatl?

Pretty obvious what I’m saying. Marner and Draisatl are pretty comparable young elite players.