Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part III

[MyBudJT]

I have serious reservations he's capable of playing center at the NHL level to any kind of top 6 level, it's a bloody difficult position to play and be good at

It also doesn't make any sense to put him there, he's a game changing, line driving difference making winger that wins games for the Leafs

Nobody sane is messing with that dynamic

I’m not arguing this (yet), but the side stepping of questions is a little annoying.

 

[Mess]

So Marner is better than the 50 goal 105 point W/C and only an idiot would take Draisaitl? Who had an outstanding and physically dominant playoff performance a couple of years ago (over a couple of rounds so small sample I'll admit)

Get the blinkers off, it's bloody close even if the contracts weren't likely to be hugely different

Sadly for Leaf Nation, that bolded part is not likely to be true after Marner's contract numbers are finalized.

Marner's #'s might be +$2 mil /per season more and 3 years shorter on term, so rather than 8 years only 5 or max 6 years, leaving the expensive UFA years behind.

Draisaitl and his 50 goals for $8.5 mil X 8 years vs Marner and his 70 assists for $10.5 mil X 5/6 years.

PS. Auston Matthews is actually a better comparable for Draisaitl, both big, strong, goal scoring centres, and Leaf Nation is hoping Auston hits the 50 goals and +100 point plateau now that his new contract kicks in, only for +$3 mil more cap space used.

 

[Dayjobdave]

Not sure if I posted my opinion on the Marner situation or not but does anyone have a problem hardballing him to go under Mark Stone's deal? Regardless of moving Marleau/Zaitsev/Brown? Just give him your final offer 9.5mx8years and if he doesn't sign let him sit out like Willy. Match any offer under 10.15M and if its over 10.15 and not to a divisional rival let the boy walk away from his childhood dream and all his sponsorship money. Let me know when you are in your next Apple commercial buddy etc etc.

4 first round picks and saving 10+mil salary space would be incredible. We can turn around and spend the money on Karlsson/Myers/Panarin/Duchene/Eberle. I actually wouldn't mind getting 4 firsts then signing Duchene and moving Kadri and signing Eberle and/or Myers assuming we can move some cap out.

Not to mention with 4 firsts we could solidify our team for the next 10-15 years assuming we don't completely whiff on our firsts. Might be a blessing in disguise. I love Marner but the alternative to taking it up the ass because his dad is greedy or petty is not exactly a bad thing.

This would be great if they could actually male the moves.

Out goes Mitch and Naz.

In comes Duchene, Eberle, 4 firsts and a quality RHD (for Naz)

I would do that. I suspect it’s impossible, but I’d do it.

 

[MyBudJT]

Sadly for Leaf Nation, that bolded part is not likely to be true after Marner's contract numbers are finalized.

Marner's #'s might be +$2 mil /per season more and 3 years shorter on term, so rather than 8 years only 5 or max 6 years, leaving the expensive UFA years behind.

Draisaitl and his 50 goals for $8.5 mil X 8 years vs Marner and his 70 assists for $10.5 mil X 5/6 years.

PS. Auston Matthews is actually a better comparable for Draisaitl, both big, strong, goal scoring centres, and Leaf Nation is hoping Auston hits the 50 goals and +100 point plateau now that his new contract kicks in, only for +$3 mil more cap space used.

Why are you comparing Draisatl’s U24 output to Marner’s U22 output? Why not compare Draisatl’s U22 output to Marner’s U22 output?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Sadly for Leaf Nation, that bolded part is not likely to be true after Marner's contract numbers are finalized.

Marner's #'s might be +$2 mil /per season more and 3 years shorter on term, so rather than 8 years only 5 or max 6 years, leaving the expensive UFA years behind.

Draisaitl and his 50 goals for $8.5 mil X 8 years vs Marner and his 70 assists for $10.5 mil X 5/6 years.

PS. Auston Matthews is actually a better comparable for Draisaitl, both big, strong, goal scoring centres, and Leaf Nation is hoping Auston hits the 50 goals and +100 point plateau now that his new contract kicks in, only for +$3 mil more cap space used.

Next time try comparing apples to apples.

You think Leaf Nation really wants Matthews to become Draisaitl? At what point do you think he gets to ride shotgun on Tavares line as a left winger because he cant drive his own line?

 

[Mess]

Next time try comparing apples to apples.

You think Leaf Nation really wants Matthews to become Draisaitl? At what point do you think he gets to ride shotgun on Tavares line as a left winger because he cant drive his own line?

I thought I was as Draisaitl is a Centre and Marner a RW and that is your apples to oranges comparison..

Apples to apples would be hoping Matthews can produce 50 goals and > 100 points like Draisaitl just did. At the same time the Tavares/Marner combo can provide their offense on the other line. Draisaitl just finished 2nd in goals and 4th in overall points and if Matthews does that I would be pleased.

Other than contracts of $8.5 mil X 8 which would be desirable for Marner to match Draisaitl, I don't see any other relevance here by that comparison.

 

[IPS]

I thought I was as Draisaitl is a Centre and Marner a RW and that is your apples to oranges comparison..

Apples to apples would be hoping Matthews can produce 50 goals and > 100 points like Draisaitl just did. At the same time the Tavares/Marner combo can provide their offense on the other line. Draisaitl just finished 2nd in goals and 4th in overall points and if Matthews does that I would be pleased.

Other than contracts of $8.5 mil X 8 which would be desirable for Marner to match Draisaitl, I don't see any other relevance here by that comparison.

So you essentially want Matthews to play mega big minutes then?

Because that's what Drai needed to achieve those totals.

 

[Kiwi]

I’m not arguing this (yet), but the side stepping of questions is a little annoying.

I've answered the question numerous times, do you need me to list the reasons he's not a center, and won't be successful at it even if we were insane enough to try it again?

Sadly for Leaf Nation, that bolded part is not likely to be true after Marner's contract numbers are finalized.

Marner's #'s might be +$2 mil /per season more and 3 years shorter on term, so rather than 8 years only 5 or max 6 years, leaving the expensive UFA years behind.

Draisaitl and his 50 goals for $8.5 mil X 8 years vs Marner and his 70 assists for $10.5 mil X 5/6 years.

PS. Auston Matthews is actually a better comparable for Draisaitl, both big, strong, goal scoring centres, and Leaf Nation is hoping Auston hits the 50 goals and +100 point plateau now that his new contract kicks in, only for +$3 mil more cap space used.

Drai is one hell of a player, he doesn't get the respect he deserves on our board

 

[Mess]

So you essentially want Matthews to play mega big minutes then?

Because that's what Drai needed to achieve those totals.

No question.

With the Leafs upcoming salary structure and cap hits, and with the team depth exectedly taking a big hit by having 3 of the top 10 highest AAV contracts in the NHL after Marner is signed, there will be little to no choice to play both the Matthews and Tavares lines heavily and disportionately to the bottom 6 forwards.

When you're paying Matthews and soon Marner that kind on $$ you need them to produce among the best in the league, and that requires they get the TOI/g and opportunities to achieve that.

The only reason ATOI was lower in the past was do to many factors including a deep team while the kids were on their ELC, also still young and developing and their linemates also being rookies, particularly Matthews who went from Hyman/Nylander to AJ/Kapanen etc.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

This would be great if they could actually male the moves.

Out goes Mitch and Naz.

In comes Duchene, Eberle, 4 firsts and a quality RHD (for Naz)

I would do that. I suspect it’s impossible, but I’d do it.

Glad you're not the gm. Marner is a special player. Those four firsts could be anything. Marner is a beast. He's so special and dominates games. I wouldn't trade Mitch for anything less than mcdavid. Despite HF hate Mitch Marner is a franchise player. In three or four years he will be the best two way player on planet Earth.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

I've answered the question numerous times, do you need me to list the reasons he's not a center, and won't be successful at it even if we were insane enough to try it again?



Drai is one hell of a player, he doesn't get the respect he deserves on our board

Please. Leon is a passenger. I want to see a full season centering his own line. There is no reason why he can't center his own line and dominate if he's as good as buffalo west says he is.

 

[hullsy47]

I've answered the question numerous times, do you need me to list the reasons he's not a center, and won't be successful at it even if we were insane enough to try it again?
I think hes better than marner


Drai is one hell of a player, he doesn't get the respect he deserves on our board

 

[Ziggdiezan]

After the Skinner albatross I think it is going to be hard to get Mitch under 10 million.

I had some hope before but now I think it is going to be a really bad contract for the team

 

[socko]

After the Skinner albatross I think it is going to be hard to get Mitch under 10 million.

I had some hope before but now I think it is going to be a really bad contract for the team

Skinner was a UFA. Marner is an RFA. Marner has no leverage unless he can get an offer sheet. Seems unlikely. Every team understands this but Dubas.

 

[ToneDog]

If I am a GM and had $10-$11M to spend, I would spend it on UFAs rather than signing Marner and giving up 4 1st rounders and pissing off the Leafs and other GMs. No offersheet is coming.

 

[diceman934]

Not sure if I posted my opinion on the Marner situation or not but does anyone have a problem hardballing him to go under Mark Stone's deal? Regardless of moving Marleau/Zaitsev/Brown? Just give him your final offer 9.5mx8years and if he doesn't sign let him sit out like Willy. Match any offer under 10.15M and if its over 10.15 and not to a divisional rival let the boy walk away from his childhood dream and all his sponsorship money. Let me know when you are in your next Apple commercial buddy etc etc.

4 first round picks and saving 10+mil salary space would be incredible. We can turn around and spend the money on Karlsson/Myers/Panarin/Duchene/Eberle. I actually wouldn't mind getting 4 firsts then signing Duchene and moving Kadri and signing Eberle and/or Myers assuming we can move some cap out.

Not to mention with 4 firsts we could solidify our team for the next 10-15 years assuming we don't completely whiff on our firsts. Might be a blessing in disguise. I love Marner but the alternative to taking it up the ass because his dad is greedy or petty is not exactly a bad thing.

You do realize we get our own picks no matter what so the need to post it as if it is some type of bonus if we let him walk away if he is offered sheeted is nonsense. We will match any offer as you simply do not let your best player walk away for a hot garbage return.

Marner is not greedy because he wants to be paid an equivalent amount to players on his own team who he out produced. You saying he is does not make him greedy. It makes out dough head of a GM look stupid.

Get over the thought of Marner signing an 8 year deal at anything less then 12 per. As it is simply not happening. Mathews signs a 5 year deal at 8 year money and so will Marner.

 

[diceman934]

How many teams that have the cap space actually have their own 4 First Round picks intact?

For an offer sheet to be accepted, the offering team has to have their own 4 X 1st rounders available, not ones received from other teams via trade. How many teams meet that criteria, and have cap space, and signing Mitch for $10+ makes sense for their team?

Just wondering, I don't know the answer, but I really wonder exactly how many teams are in this position to do so?

As long as a team has their own picks they can offersheet him a team can go over the cap by 10% in the summer.

Teams like the flyers and Florida as well as the Islanders would be candidates as well as Avalanche, SansJose.

Never played there professionally
Couldn't stick there in junior
Taking faceoffs which he doesn't do
Defending down low which he also doesn't do
Our coach would rather use Nylander as a center instead (which is a bit of a statment when you look at how he's given him plenty of "tough love")

If having some on ice vision and defensive awarness were all it took to make a decent center there would be way more good centers around the league right now

Yet when Hunter drafted him he said he could play center and he would know far more then you.

 

[diceman934]

I know Paul Marner gets a cut, but I have to assume you will too because he's not a top 20 player like Matthews, but you want him paid like that? Stop using total points please.

He is better than Mathews and I guess total points would be fine if Mathews beat him.

I would like to see him take 3m per, however that is not happening. He will be paid accordingly based on our salary structure and that is the issue. Dubas set our cap structure back a lot by giving Mathews the best contract in the League.

Are we to ignore he lead the Leafs in scoring two years in a row. People point to comparable who have not lead their teams in scoring. They are easily ignored. His own teams salary structure is what we are up against. He is going to get paid.

 

[Kiwi]

Please. Leon is a passenger. I want to see a full season centering his own line. There is no reason why he can't center his own line and dominate if he's as good as buffalo west says he is.

Drai's production is elite, he's a 50 goal 105 point scorer last season making 8.5M forever, I don't care if he's a center or a winger that's amazing value

Passenger? Yeah I'm going to go out on a limb and say you either don't know very much or aren't particularly smart

As long as a team has their own picks they can offersheet him a team can go over the cap by 10% in the summer.

Teams like the flyers and Florida as well as the Islanders would be candidates as well as Avalanche, SansJose.

Yet when Hunter drafted him he said he could play center and he would know far more then you.

Hunters OHL team tried him at center and put him back on the wing, turns out he's a winger even at the OHL

So one comment about Marner half a decade ago doesn't actually mean anything, Hunter may of thought he could be a center at the time but it turns out he's not

It happens

 

[diceman934]

What does Nylander lack to play goalie?

Fear of getting hit by the puck.

 

[diceman934]

Drai's production is elite, he's a 50 goal 105 point scorer last season making 8.5M forever, I don't care if he's a center or a winger that's amazing value

Passenger? Yeah I'm going to go out on a limb and say you either don't know very much or aren't particularly smart



Hunters OHL team tried him at center and put him back on the wing, turns out he's a winger even at the OHL

So one comment about Marner half a decade ago doesn't actually mean anything, Hunter may of thought he could be a center at the time but it turns out he's not

It happens

Do you know why Hunter did not keep Marner as a center?

It was because they were losing games. He was more then effective as a center.

 

[hullsy47]

You do realize we get our own picks no matter what so the need to post it as if it is some type of bonus if we let him walk away if he is offered sheeted is nonsense. We will match any offer as you simply do not let your best player walk away for a hot garbage return.

Marner is not greedy because he wants to be paid an equivalent amount to players on his own team who he out produced. You saying he is does not make him greedy. It makes out dough head of a GM look stupid.

Get over the thought of Marner signing an 8 year deal at anything less then 12 per. As it is simply not happening. Mathews signs a 5 year deal at 8 year money and so will Marner.

only way he gets over 9.5 is from an offer sheet
jeremy roenicke says he hears marner will never get 1
too many teams will suffer the next 3 years

 

[diceman934]

only way he gets over 9.5 is from an offer sheet
jeremy roenicke says he hears marner will never get 1
too many teams will suffer the next 3 years

Marner will get in the 10m per range and the only way it is less is if it is under 5 years.

He is worth over 10 right now. Stone got 9.5 and he is a 60 point player as did Skinner same production. Yes they were UFA but that no longer seems relevant as clearly seen by the two highest paid players in the NHL. Elichel got 10 per two years ago.

 

[Peasy]

Do you know why Hunter did not keep Marner as a center?

It was because they were losing games. He was more then effective as a center.

But was clearly better on the wing...

 

[diceman934]

But was clearly better on the wing...

Not at all. It was because the team wanted to load up one line and they played the snot out of the line and especially Marner.