Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part III

[Kiwi]

Pretty cool that you are apparently a natural center now if you do well in a grand total of 11 faceoffs.

11 great faceoffs though

He couldn't stick at center in junior but by God he's a center, I just know it in my bones, how dare you question his center playing greatness

Worth noting that theres absolutely zero guarantee that any team that offersheets Marner would have late first round selections. McDavid alone couldn't keep the Oilers out of the bottom 10, and four years is a long time for any team - anything can happen.

Not that I'd necessarily advocate letting him leave on an offersheet though.

That's why the threat of an offersheet is massively overstated, I seriously doubt anybody is thinking about taking the risk and cost of 4 1st round picks to pay Marner 11M a year

That's why I've gotten more willing to just let Marner sit if he won't sign something acceptable, i doubt he's going to get an offersheet and if that's highly unlikely what's his leverage?

 

[LeafSteel]

How many teams that have the cap space actually have their own 4 First Round picks intact?

For an offer sheet to be accepted, the offering team has to have their own 4 X 1st rounders available, not ones received from other teams via trade. How many teams meet that criteria, and have cap space, and signing Mitch for $10+ makes sense for their team?

Just wondering, I don't know the answer, but I really wonder exactly how many teams are in this position to do so?

 

[MyBudJT]

I find the “can Marner play center?” Debate interesting. To those that strongly think he can’t, what aspects/skills is Marner lacking to play the center role?

 

[Ciao]

How many teams that have the cap space actually have their own 4 First Round picks intact?

For an offer sheet to be accepted, the offering team has to have their own 4 X 1st rounders available, not ones received from other teams via trade. How many teams meet that criteria, and have cap space, and signing Mitch for $10+ makes sense for their team?

Just wondering, I don't know the answer, but I really wonder exactly how many teams are in this position to do so?

Pretty much all teams have enough firsts: it's four firsts within the next five years.

You add one year when the compensation includes two or more draft picks in the same round. It's in the CBA.

 

[ULF_55]

Pretty much all teams have enough firsts: it's four firsts within the next five years.

You add one year when the compensation includes two or more draft picks in the same round. It's in the CBA.

4 1st. round picks between 2020 and 2024.

But I would not be surprised to see the offersheet come in at: 10,568,500

So it is only: 1st., 1st., 2nd., 3rd.

— From Article 10.4,
— Clubs owing one (1) draft selection must have it available in the next draft.
— Clubs owing two (2) draft selections in different rounds must have them available in the next draft.
— Clubs owing three (3) draft selections in different rounds must have them available in the next draft.
— Clubs owing two (2) draft selections in the same round, must have them available in the next three (3) drafts.
— Clubs owing three (3) draft selections in the same round must have them available in the next four (4) drafts, and so on.
When a Club owes two (2) or more draft selections in the same round, the signing Club does not elect the years in which such selections shall be awarded to the Prior Club; rather, the selections next available will be transferred to the Prior Club (i.e., a Club that owes two (2) selections has them available in the next two (2) drafts – that is when they are transferred).

 

[Kiwi]

I find the “can Marner play center?” Debate interesting. To those that strongly think he can’t, what aspects/skills is Marner lacking to play the center role?

Never played there professionally
Couldn't stick there in junior
Taking faceoffs which he doesn't do
Defending down low which he also doesn't do
Our coach would rather use Nylander as a center instead (which is a bit of a statment when you look at how he's given him plenty of "tough love")

If having some on ice vision and defensive awarness were all it took to make a decent center there would be way more good centers around the league right now

 

[Walshy7]

Never played there professionally
Couldn't stick there in junior
Taking faceoffs which he doesn't do
Defending down low which he also doesn't do
Our coach would rather use Nylander as a center instead (which is a bit of a statment when you look at how he's given him plenty of "tough love")

If having some on ice vision and defensive awarness were all it took to make a decent center there would be way more good centers around the league right now

Like!

 

[Notsince67]

Leon Draisatl is a significantly more projectable player than Marner as they mature into their primes. Having him play 1A and 1B at center with Matthews or on Matthews wing would give us a much tougher to match up presence in the playoffs than Magic Mitch.

Ok. Ill call bs on this. Marner is better than Drai...no question. The only issue is projected salary differential. Only an idiot gm would pick drai over marner if salary was equal.

 

[Notsince67]

I find the “can Marner play center?” Debate interesting. To those that strongly think he can’t, what aspects/skills is Marner lacking to play the center role?

Tried that already. Dead silence other than the obvious statement that he doesnt play center

 

[Dragao6]

Now you have a crystal ball.

Any team offer sheeting him would be a good team. So getting lottery picks would be highly unlikely. As well as you trade other players long before you trade your best player. Marner would not sign an offer sheet unless it was for a contender and only after the Leafs refuse to pay him at his value. His value as a Leaf is been established by the contracts we have signed. JT and Mathews. He is better then both.

Ok I hear you but what contender can afford marner offer sheet that leafs wont match when theirs no cap relief going the other way?
Contender can take on 11M?

 

[4thline]

I find the “can Marner play center?” Debate interesting. To those that strongly think he can’t, what aspects/skills is Marner lacking to play the center role?

I don't think it's a "he can't", I think it's a "he's not as impactful at it so it doesn't make any sense, especially given our roster make up"

It hasn't been tried at pro so I'm only going off of viewings with the Knights, but he was night and day centre vs. Wing.Don't get me wrong at the OHL level he was still a definite 1C with a strong 2way game, but he wasn't the franchise level play driver he was at wing. It seemed like his physical limitations and the additional responsibilities at C really stifled his game and limited the impact he had.

 

[Kiwi]

Ok. Ill call bs on this. Marner is better than Drai...no question. The only issue is projected salary differential. Only an idiot gm would pick drai over marner if salary was equal.

So Marner is better than the 50 goal 105 point W/C and only an idiot would take Draisaitl? Who had an outstanding and physically dominant playoff performance a couple of years ago (over a couple of rounds so small sample I'll admit)

Get the blinkers off, it's bloody close even if the contracts weren't likely to be hugely different

Tried that already. Dead silence other than the obvious statement that he doesnt play center

So he doesn't play there, never plays there, couldn't stick there in junior, doesn't take faceoffs, doesn't defend down low and his offensive production in junior was much lower playing center vs wing

This argument is ******* rediculous, by this logic Nylander deserves his contract because he's a center even though he doesn't play there either

I keenly await somebody writing how Marner's a #1D as well, doesn't play there but by God just put him in and magic will happen because he's so awesome he can do anything

 

[Notsince67]

So Marner is better than the 50 goal 105 point W/C and only an idiot would take Draisaitl? Who had an outstanding and physically dominant playoff performance a couple of years ago (over a couple of rounds so small sample I'll admit)

Get the blinkers off, it's bloody close even if the contracts weren't likely to be hugely different



So he doesn't play there, never plays there, couldn't stick there in junior, doesn't take faceoffs, doesn't defend down low and his offensive production in junior was much lower playing center vs wing

This argument is ******* rediculous, by this logic Nylander deserves his contract because he's a center even though he doesn't play there either

I keenly await somebody writing how Marner's a #1D as well, doesn't play there but by God just put him in and magic will happen because he's so awesome he can do anything

The science of player development and comparisons are well known. Drai did not have the performance that Marner did at the same year. You can attempt to slam Marner yet your stealthy attempt to do so is obvious to all who have a small iota of knowledge about how ot works. Marner is miles ahead of a guy like kucherov at this stage in development, let alo ne Drai. I dont think you are stupid, so I know your personal biases are just throwing crap against the wall in an effort to make your nylander obsessions look a little better than the train wreck that they are.

 

[pucci2001]

Not sure if I posted my opinion on the Marner situation or not but does anyone have a problem hardballing him to go under Mark Stone's deal? Regardless of moving Marleau/Zaitsev/Brown? Just give him your final offer 9.5mx8years and if he doesn't sign let him sit out like Willy. Match any offer under 10.15M and if its over 10.15 and not to a divisional rival let the boy walk away from his childhood dream and all his sponsorship money. Let me know when you are in your next Apple commercial buddy etc etc.

4 first round picks and saving 10+mil salary space would be incredible. We can turn around and spend the money on Karlsson/Myers/Panarin/Duchene/Eberle. I actually wouldn't mind getting 4 firsts then signing Duchene and moving Kadri and signing Eberle and/or Myers assuming we can move some cap out.

Not to mention with 4 firsts we could solidify our team for the next 10-15 years assuming we don't completely whiff on our firsts. Might be a blessing in disguise. I love Marner but the alternative to taking it up the ass because his dad is greedy or petty is not exactly a bad thing.

 

[MyBudJT]

Never played there professionally
Couldn't stick there in junior
Taking faceoffs which he doesn't do
Defending down low which he also doesn't do
Our coach would rather use Nylander as a center instead (which is a bit of a statment when you look at how he's given him plenty of "tough love")

If having some on ice vision and defensive awarness were all it took to make a decent center there would be way more good centers around the league right now

Fair enough! Just because Marner’s currently doesn’t do it, does it mean he is incapable of doing it?

 

[kb]

Why in hell would he sign that deal?

No way he signs for 8 years at that low of a cap hit. He lead the Leafs in scoring in back to back years and we just signed Mathews for 11.634 per for 5 years.

I know Paul Marner gets a cut, but I have to assume you will too because he's not a top 20 player like Matthews, but you want him paid like that? Stop using total points please.

 

[kb]

Pretty cool that you are apparently a natural center now if you do well in a grand total of 11 faceoffs.

LMAO!!!!!

 

[kb]

Fair enough! Just because Marner’s currently doesn’t do it, does it mean he is incapable of doing it?

Yes......until he does it.....he's incapable. That's 100% the argument against any other Leaf player that gets compared to Marner.

 

[Walshy7]

Fair enough! Just because Marner’s currently doesn’t do it, does it mean he is incapable of doing it?

In the nhl playoffs mike babcock chose to play William Nylander at centre over marner. I like nylander but he doesn’t have and will not have the intensity of marner. if marner was at all capable of playing centre that was the time to do it.

 

[kb]

I find the “can Marner play center?” Debate interesting. To those that strongly think he can’t, what aspects/skills is Marner lacking to play the center role?

What does Nylander lack to play goalie?

 

[Kiwi]

The science of player development and comparisons are well known. Drai did not have the performance that Marner did at the same year. You can attempt to slam Marner yet your stealthy attempt to do so is obvious to all who have a small iota of knowledge about how ot works. Marner is miles ahead of a guy like kucherov at this stage in development, let alo ne Drai. I dont think you are stupid, so I know your personal biases are just throwing crap against the wall in an effort to make your nylander obsessions look a little better than the train wreck that they are.

Drai is older but if Marner can Crack 50 goals and 105 points next season he's going to be doing bloody well, that is elite goal scoring and production by any standard

We weren't comparing Marner and Kucherov, it was Marner for Drai and anybody writing that's an easy decision is either a homer or doesn't watch Edmonton enough

Drai is an absolute beast

What crap at a wall? Marner is one hell of a player but I'm not playing pretend he's a center or him for Drai doesn't make me seriously think, hell Drai for Matthews makes me think as well, do I dislike him now to?

I don't really care about Nylander either, if he got traded tomorrow for good value I'd be happy, I like players but I'm a Leafs fan first before any player

Fair enough! Just because Marner’s currently doesn’t do it, does it mean he is incapable of doing it?

I have serious reservations he's capable of playing center at the NHL level to any kind of top 6 level, it's a bloody difficult position to play and be good at

It also doesn't make any sense to put him there, he's a game changing, line driving difference making winger that wins games for the Leafs

Nobody sane is messing with that dynamic

 

[Stephen]

Ok. Ill call bs on this. Marner is better than Drai...no question. The only issue is projected salary differential. Only an idiot gm would pick drai over marner if salary was equal.

What makes Marner better than Draisatl?

 

[Stephen]

Well he has more playoff points in the 3 years then anyone on our team.

Yet our team isn’t successful in the playoffs.

 

[stickty111]

This is also a small sample size, but when Dale Hunter put Marner at centre for a few games, his play and production dropped off.
He wasn't able to play centre at the junior level, and can't at the NHL level either.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

That teams are having to pay rfas (at least bluechip guys) more than in the past

Except Matthews and Nylander contracts compare well to comparable blue chip RFAs of like 10yrs ago. What recent signings are you using?