Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part III

[ULF_55]

When you look at the massive discrepancy in ice-time between them, it's remarkable that Marner came as close as he did to Drai in total points. Anybody who thinks Drai comes even close to 100 points under Babcock is incredibly delusional.

Points yes, goals not even close.

 

[Legion34]

Waiting late is one thing, yea seems to be a bit different now. But mentioned specifically dollars for RFA vs UFA and I’m not so sure that has changed much based on the information we have.

Well we do know that teams are moving older players out and trying to avoid retirement contracts

We also know that players aren’t signing early and are going for the best deals possible over security.

We have to see the final numbers. But it’s pretty clear that’s what they are trying.

 

[ULF_55]

Well we do know that teams are moving older players out and trying to avoid retirement contracts

We also know that players aren’t signing early and are going for the best deals possible over security.

We have to see the final numbers. But it’s pretty clear that’s what they are trying.

I hope so. If the Leafs can get their best 4 forwards and top 3 defenders locked up you can mix and match the rest, and perhaps get some older players on the cheap.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Well we do know that teams are moving older players out and trying to avoid retirement contracts

We also know that players aren’t signing early and are going for the best deals possible over security.

We have to see the final numbers. But it’s pretty clear that’s what they are trying.

Yea league is getting younger and ELC players might be waiting longer now.

 

[Superstar]

The Skinner signing benefits the Leafs...so you want $10.5 million over 8 years eh, Mitch? (Much better than $10 million x 3 their camp is pushing for). If the Skinner contract was $9 million x 5, then there would be a problem.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Weird how Buffalo has set the market rate for two of our stars now. Once Eichel got his contract, it was inevitable Matthews would get paid $11M+. Same now with Skinner. I was adamant Marner shouldn't get $10M+ but how can anyone say that now? Guaranteed someone from Marner's camp sent a "your move" message to Leafs management after that signing. And to think 2 years ago most people were thinking in the $6-7M range for Marner.

The $6-7M expectation was before Marner had a mid-90's pt season too, that's what has really shifted his market

Agree on the premise though, I didn't think he should make more than Kucherov or Stone especially coming from a situation with less leverage, but I would have guessed Skinner at sub $8Mx 7/8 at the end of the season depending if he was back with the Sabres or somewhere else. This is the first deal that I can see that is a clear new high water mark for wingers based on their tier

 

[ULF_55]

The $6-7M expectation was before Marner had a mid-90's pt season too, that's what has really shifted his market

Agree on the premise though, I didn't think he should make more than Kucherov or Stone especially coming from a situation with less leverage, but I would have guessed Skinner at sub $8Mx 7/8 at the end of the season depending if he was back with the Sabres or somewhere else. This is the first deal that I can see that is a clear new high water mark for wingers based on their tier

Marner isn't alone in that production area though.
Point
Rantanen
Aho (center - on less offensive team)

 

[Menzinger]

Yea league is getting younger and ELC players might be waiting longer now.

The league created this mess by lowballing younger players for so long. Suddenly agents of bluechip guys have realized they can push back more...

That said, at the end if the day it makes far more sense to pay a guy bug money over the bulk of his 20s than a deal that takes them to their late 30s.

 

[MyBudJT]

Funny, hard to tell whether McDavid or Draisaitl are centers when they're playing together.

Funny, Marner can do just about everything you want from a center, except perhaps win face offs. I’d argue that Marner is the better defensive forward!

 

[MyBudJT]

Draisaitl scored almost twice as many goals as Marner.
But Marner was playing with a better goal score last year.

Draisatl only scored 4? More goals in their respective U22 campaigns. Marner got 15-20 more points, though!

 

[The CyNick]

The Skinner signing benefits the Leafs...so you want $10.5 million over 8 years eh, Mitch? (Much better than $10 million x 3 their camp is pushing for). If the Skinner contract was $9 million x 5, then there would be a problem.

The matthews deal proved this team doesn't care about term, just trying to get to the lowest number tje player will accept.

Skinner deal is awful for us IMO. Not nearly as good of a player. Pretty much says marner can get the matthews deal X 8 no problem and will be able to negotiate down to five years if he wants.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

The league created this mess by lowballing younger players for so long. Suddenly agents of bluechip guys have realized they can push back more...

That said, at the end if the day it makes far more sense to pay a guy bug money over the bulk of his 20s than a deal that takes them to their late 30s.

What mess though? It looks like RFAs are getting what they've been getting all along as far as I can tell.

 

[diceman934]

9M per year for 8 years for a winger who never reached 70 points, after one 40 goal season, and he is already 27.
What the actual **** that is.

Stone contract is far worse.

 

[Superstar]

The matthews deal proved this team doesn't care about term, just trying to get to the lowest number tje player will accept.

Skinner deal is awful for us IMO. Not nearly as good of a player. Pretty much says marner can get the matthews deal X 8 no problem and will be able to negotiate down to five years if he wants.

What Skinner's deal shows is that GOAL SCORING is at a premium, not just points and assists...even with Skinner signed, Buffalo still desperately needs goal scoring. Skinner is also an UFA and has proven to be good at scoring goals...40 goals last year, 37 goals a couple of years ago. Despite $9 million per, he signed for 8 YEARS...if you prorate that to a 3 year deal that Marner's camp is looking for with the Leafs, Skinner's deal is probably between $6 to $7 million for 3 years. Marner's $10 million x 3 years is a ridiculous ask, because that translates to $13 to $14 million over 8 years!

 

[diceman934]

Leon Draisatl is a significantly more projectable player than Marner as they mature into their primes. Having him play 1A and 1B at center with Matthews or on Matthews wing would give us a much tougher to match up presence in the playoffs than Magic Mitch.

Seriously He hardly played center last year. JT is a better center then him. He is a winger. If Marner played with Connor last year he would have won the Art Ross.

Marner is better and younger.

 

[diceman934]

Funny, Marner can do just about everything you want from a center, except perhaps win face offs. I’d argue that Marner is the better defensive forward!

He is good at the dot. Two season ago was 52%. Last year was 58%. He is a natural center always has been.

 

[Menzinger]

What mess though? It looks like RFAs are getting what they've been getting all along as far as I can tell.

Mess was the wrong word- confusion more accurate.

League and GMs should have done right by younger guys earlier so some folks wouldnt be so taken back by this shift in rfa deals

 

[diceman934]

What Skinner's deal shows is that GOAL SCORING is at a premium, not just points and assists...even with Skinner signed, Buffalo still desperately needs goal scoring. Skinner is also an UFA and has proven to be good at scoring goals...40 goals last year, 37 goals a couple of years ago. Despite $9 million per, he signed for 8 YEARS...if you prorate that to a 3 year deal that Marner's camp is looking for with the Leafs, Skinner's deal is probably between $6 to $7 million for 3 years. Marner's $10 million x 3 years is a ridiculous ask, because that translates to $13 to $14 million over 8 years!

What Skinner deal show was that Buffalo are stupid still far to much for far to many years. He has only reached 60 points 3 times since being drafted and they signed him for 9m for 8 years. This contract makes Marner worth 13m over 8 years

 

[Crysis]

9.75 x 8 and let him sit until he signs it.

 

[Stephen]

Seriously He hardly played center last year. JT is a better center then him. He is a winger. If Marner played with Connor last year he would have won the Art Ross.

Marner is better and younger.

Let’s stop glorifying regular season numbers for what they are. I’m not that interested in paying those huge mark ups on Marner’s hypothetical scoring titles and whatnot when we should be constructing a playoff monster.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Marner isn't alone in that production area though.
Point
Rantanen
Aho (center - on less offensive team)

ya for sure, if one of those guys sets the market higher then it would have been higher, especially Rantanen because he's the winger in that group

but I think Skinner getting $9M is a clear rise in the market

 

[diceman934]

Let’s stop glorifying regular season numbers for what they are. I’m not that interested in paying those huge mark ups on Marner’s hypothetical scoring titles and whatnot when we should be constructing a playoff monster.

What are you talking about?

 

[diceman934]

9.75 x 8 and let him sit until he signs it.

Why in hell would he sign that deal?

No way he signs for 8 years at that low of a cap hit. He lead the Leafs in scoring in back to back years and we just signed Mathews for 11.634 per for 5 years.

 

[Crysis]

Why in hell would he sign that deal?

No way he signs for 8 years at that low of a cap hit. He lead the Leafs in scoring in back to back years and we just signed Mathews for 11.634 per for 5 years.

Because he's an RFA and has no choice unless an offer sheet comes. If he wants to play hard ball let him sit the year.
And just because the mistake was made with Matthews doesn't mean you have to do it twice.
Marner needs to be locked up for 8.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Mess was the wrong word- confusion more accurate.

League and GMs should have done right by younger guys earlier so some folks wouldnt be so taken back by this shift in rfa deals

That’s what I’m trying to say though, what shift?