Salary Cap: Marner Deal Discussion Part III

[MapleLeafs9]

Welp, goodbye chances at a Marner for 9-9.5M deal

 

[Joey Hoser]

Welp, goodbye chances at a Marner for 9-9.5M deal

The Sabres are asking far more of Skinner though. Not on the ice, but he'll have to play for, and live in Buffalo. It's a big ask.

 

[Dragao6]

Welp, goodbye chances at a Marner for 9-9.5M deal

Why? because other GM gives his players a big contract? Why do gms need to follow other team GM's decisions?
Theres skinner at 9 but also eichel at 10

 

[diceman934]

Who are you referring to? 100 points 50 goal scorer is projected?

He is not a Marner fan but a huge Nylander fan. He is a home lander fan.

 

[diceman934]

Wow Skinner just got 9 mill wonder what that will do for Marner ???? bye bye 8.5 dream....oh my !!!!

Lol. Stone contract put our that Though a long time ago. He got 9.5.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Welp, goodbye chances at a Marner for 9-9.5M deal

The deal was for Skinner at 8 years. Doubt Marner was ever going to sign here for 8 years.

 

[Nooodles]

9M per year for 8 years for a winger who never reached 70 points, after one 40 goal season, and he is already 27.
What the actual f*** that is.

 

[kb]

He is not a Marner fan but a huge Nylander fan. He is a home lander fan.

I'm a Leaf fan. Why would anyone want to be an individual player fan ahead of a fan of a team?

Oh wait.....nevermind

 

[BigBlu]

Skinner walking on sunshine!

 

[Rielly]

Marner 8.25 x 4 / 9.25 x 6

 

[IPS]

And this is why I had to dial back my criticism of Dubas after the Matthews contract. I was furious with that contract at first, but the cold hard truth is the market is trending towards these contracts.

You got a guy like Brock Nelson making $6M and now you got Jeff Skinner making $9M. It's all turned out to be true. I think people should start realizing that Dubas really didn't f*** up the contracts of Matthews/Nylander much at all, if any. These agents know precisely where the market was trending. The old days of "10 points per million" baseline is most definitely a thing of the past.

 

[BigBlu]

Dubas got played. 3 times.

 

[kb]

Dubas got played. 3 times.

You think Dubas got played when a 63 point career high forward get $9 million over 8 years????

 

[BigBlu]

You think Dubas got played when a 63 point career high forward get $9 million over 8 years????

OOh ya.

Should have marched Tavares and Mattews out together with identical contracts... And given Willy a take or trade deal.

Now Marner is just letting it all flow down to him, while Dubby waits to pay the highest price. Again.

 

[kb]

OOh ya.

Should have marched Tavares and Mattews out together with identical contracts... And given Willy a take or trade deal.

Now Marner is just letting it all flow down to him, while Dubby waits to pay the highest price. Again.

Yeah......You have no hill to die on anymore. Sorry!!

 

[Kiwi]

He is not a Marner fan but a huge Nylander fan. He is a home lander fan.

I will give you one thing, your wildly hypocritical and lack self awareness but you own your homerism

 

[thewave]

And this is why I had to dial back my criticism of Dubas after the Matthews contract. I was furious with that contract at first, but the cold hard truth is the market is trending towards these contracts.

You got a guy like Brock Nelson making $6M and now you got Jeff Skinner making $9M. It's all turned out to be true. I think people should start realizing that Dubas really didn't **** up the contracts of Matthews/Nylander much at all, if any. These agents know precisely where the market was trending. The old days of "10 points per million" baseline is most definitely a thing of the past.

Until the CBA and the rest of the teams start running out of cap. There are going to be a lot of good players making peanuts at this rate. Deep teams built out of this fringe group may be the next winning strategy.

 

[bentharbs]

Yeah, look around. You can't just close your eyes to the fact that Skinner got 9x8. Marner will make 10.5...if he gets more without an offer sheet I will question whether he had the leverage, but alas I am not in the room.

 

[Nithoniniel]

But marner played the first half of the season with lesser players and even on the fourth line. It was late December when they put him with Kadri and Marleau who were both mired in a 20 game slump. When they added marner to that line from December until the end of the playoffs it was our best line.. From December until the end of the playoffs marner was scoring at a PPG playing with lesser players.

Then on July 1 we signed Tavares a top ten player in the nhl with the caveat that marner would be playing with him. This is where Dubas really screwed up. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that if marner can score at a ppg pace with Marleau and Kadri that this would only continue or get better with someone like Tavares and what his skill set brings.

In my opinion poor decision making by Dubas.

I already addressed the so-called lesser players. If you have linemates that gets 110 points and get to play with them in cushy minutes, you are in a terrific spot to score. It also wasn't our best line. Matthews and Nylander continued to produce better at even strength. The top PP unit just exploded down the stretch.

It's easy to say that we should have done things differently with hindsight, but that's judging the situation in a vacuum. You earn contracts. If you give Marner that contract based on what he had done and on the fear that he might get much more next year, you're basically ensuring that Nylander will get a similar contract. You ensure that Matthews, who had a much better case, will get an even bigger contract. You can't go to a Nylander and say: "Yeah I know he's been just one step ahead of you so far but we think he might explode production-wise going forward so we are trying to be preemptive."

There's pretty much not a worse precedent you can set than paying players based on what you fear (hope) they might produce the next year.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Weird how Buffalo has set the market rate for two of our stars now. Once Eichel got his contract, it was inevitable Matthews would get paid $11M+. Same now with Skinner. I was adamant Marner shouldn't get $10M+ but how can anyone say that now? Guaranteed someone from Marner's camp sent a "your move" message to Leafs management after that signing. And to think 2 years ago most people were thinking in the $6-7M range for Marner.

 

[hotpaws]

Weird how Buffalo has set the market rate for two of our stars now. Once Eichel got his contract, it was inevitable Matthews would get paid $11M+. Same now with Skinner. I was adamant Marner shouldn't get $10M+ but how can anyone say that now? Guaranteed someone from Marner's camp sent a "your move" message to Leafs management after that signing. And to think 2 years ago most people were thinking in the $6-7M range for Marner.

wasn't inevitable Mathews was going to get 11m plus for 5 yrs compared to Eichel's 8 yr term however , that's on the Dube's incompetence

there's much better comp's to use for MM then a ufa (Rantanen/Point), unfortunately the Dube will use them as a floor to set the bar higher for all rfa's like he did with Willie/Mathews

 

[Dayjobdave]

Wow Skinner just got 9 mill wonder what that will do for Marner ???? bye bye 8.5 dream....oh my !!!!

Well that puts Skinner ahead of Stamkos in the Markham boys cub salary pecking order, but there was already no doubt Mitch wants first place on that list.

The sad reality of second contract escalation in the NHL is that by the time the CBA is up, a lot of players will be getting squeezed because teams up against the cap can’t pay them. Then they’ll fight the cap and we fans will lose a year :-(

If the owners are smart while crushing the players again, they will protect themselves by pushing that the individual contract max should be a smaller percentage of the cap, therefore sharing the wealth among the players while shrinking some of these big contracts.

Let’s say that happens for a sec.... then, a 5 year deal is a home run because these players won’t be able to get as much on their next contract.

So.... if the market price for a top, non-superstar winger is 9 per, Keeping Mitch at 10 seems reasonable, and a 5 year term could end up better than an 8 for the club. Let’s draw up the paperwork and get it in for signature.

 

[Mess]

Welp, goodbye chances at a Marner for 9-9.5M deal

Skinner and Mark Stone are UFA status players so their contracts are not direct comparables for RFA players of which Marner is.

The first 4 years of Marner deal are RFA and intended to be cost controllable by the organization by using the CBA as intended.

 

[ULF_55]

9M per year for 8 years for a winger who never reached 70 points, after one 40 goal season, and he is already 27.
What the actual **** that is.

1. UFA
2. Buffalo
3. 40 goals
4. 30 goals per 82 games career average

 

[Mess]

1. UFA
2. Buffalo
3. 40 goals
4. 30 goals per 82 games career average

Oddly in Toronto norms and rules don't apply as the scale reads

1. RFA
2. Toronto
3. 25 goals
4. < 30 goals per 82 games career average

This gets you $10-11 mil on a 5 - 6 year deal, despite Leaf advantage/leverage in every category.