Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[rypper]

It wasn't a playoff race.

I base those numbers on the experts percentage chance of the team making the playoffs.

They had a less than 5% chance for nearly the entire season. It seemed a lot closer than it actually was. And that's not me just being biased either. All of the analysts that I've listened had the exact same opinion.

This. They were never legitimately in the playoff hunt.

 

[Diogenes92]

i don't feel i have dogpiled on you - i keep asking you questions when i'm interested in something you said. i find it a little all over the place, and lots of examples of seemingly misrepresenting what some say in order to go off on a tangent, but some other stuff i understand..

I feel that my main points are quite consistent and have merit.

I want to see results.

I don't think an aggressive retool is a viable plan, new management or not.

End of season success doesn't mean much when you have a less than 1% playoff chance.

Have my arguments been all over the place? Yes!

This is because I am debating 4 or 5 people at once. Its hard to keep things on topic when I am trying to answer to so many points and dealing with unnecessary, childish insults from some of them.

 

[strattonius]

So, in summary, you are preaching patience?

An aggressive retool doesn't speak of patience. And Allvin has said this year and next year that no playoffs is an utter failure. So in their own words, they are utterly failing as of now.

They seem to be putting a lot of immediate pressure on themselves if you ask me.

If Hronek sucks I'll follow you in our march for management's heads!

If they make a couple more moves and the defense looks good next year would you switch your tune? Or would you continue on the pro rebuild side?

 

[JohnHodgson]

Pettersson and Hughes and Demko haven't won a thing because of the sum of ALL the parts. We aren't losing because of these guys. I don't think the argument 'this core hasn't won anythjng' is based in reality. We are hockey fans and should know you need everything in line to win it all.

This team was sunk by Benning. His free agency contracts to bottom roster players, his targeted acquisitions via trade. I mean, it was all just a disaster. To critically look at Alvin's tenure and directly resemble it to Benning's tenure is disingenuous. Sure the philosophical direction of the organization seems to look the same - but the players they are targeting and wins they've had in trades should be somewhat encouraging to even the most disgruntled fan.

I hate to even say these words, but this management needs more time before pitchforks come out. They are still digging out of Benning's mess. Look at our worst contracts.

Wow.

Cheers to you for providing valuable discussion and not spewing useless comments like "THIS CORE HASNT WON ANYTHING BLAH BLAH BLAH". You are 100% right that Petey, Hughes, and Demko haven't won anything because of their environment around them - not themselves as players. When the Canucks actually had a decent supporting cast, they had a pretty good bubble run with Toffoli, Tanev and Markstrom.

A reminder to all:

Quinn Hughes is 23
Elias Pettersson is 24


They are absolute superstars and are top 10 in their respective positions. Give Allvin and JR a chance to retool around these guys before the pitchforks come out. It's honestly tiring hearing these guys with their pitchforks out when new regime has NOT been given a fair chance to see the results.

 

[andora]

I feel that my main points are quite consistent and have merit.

I want to see results.

I don't think an aggressive retool is a viable plan, new management or not.

End of season success doesn't mean much when you have a less than 1% playoff chance.

Have my arguments been all over the place? Yes!

This is because I am debating 4 or 5 people at once. Its hard to keep things on topic when I am trying to answer to so many points and dealing with unnecessary, childish insults from some of them.

fair enough

 

[Diogenes92]

If Hronek sucks I'll follow you in our march for management's heads!

If they make a couple more moves and the defense looks good next year would you switch your tune? Or would you continue on the pro rebuild side?

I have said in previous posts that if the team has a miracle off-season and cuts the deadweight (Myers, OEL, LTIR players not included) and brings in 2 or 3 key pieces on the D and a very good middle-6 centre (the price would be astronomical to do all of this), that I would be happy to get on board.

This is all depending on if they actually perform well.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if they can pull that off and start winning.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Ive been dogpilied by retool supporters. You included. That's why im wondering why I am annoying so many people by having an opinion.

Its not me that's overreacting. Maybe not you, either. But the evidence is in this thread.


So, in summary, you are preaching patience?

An aggressive retool doesn't speak of patience. And Allvin has said this year and next year that no playoffs is an utter failure. So in their own words, they are utterly failing as of now.

They seem to be putting a lot of immediate pressure on themselves if you ask me.

Utter failure? Literally making up narratives as we move along.

A borderline playoff team missing the playoffs is not an "utter failure".

Utter failure would be having McDavid for almost a decade and having nothing to show for. Utter failure would be Boston going all-in this year and getting knocked out in the first round.



Man you doing too much.

Ya'll LOVE exaggerating/taking things out of context.

 

[mriswith]

"We don't want to be here for a rebuild": Quinn Hughes supports Canucks retool | Offside

Wednesday's surprise trade with Detroit wasn't popular with a lot of Canucks fans, but it was likely well received with players and coaches.

dailyhive.com

Report: Canucks' Pettersson wants to 'play for a team that's winning'

As negotiations continue on a new contract for restricted free agent Elias Pettersson, the Canucks star reportedly says he wants to stay in Vancouver, but also emphasized his desire to "play for a team that's winning."

www.sportsnet.ca

Would any superstar in their prime saying anything different than that?

I think literally every star player in their prime would say the same things when asked the same questions point blank, and there's a significant gap between those quotes and actually forcing a trade.

 

[Diogenes92]

Utter failure? Literally making up narratives as we move along.

A borderline playoff team missing the playoffs is not an "utter failure".

Utter failure would be having McDavid for almost a decade and having nothing to show for. Utter failure would be Boston going all-in this year and getting knocked out in the first round.



Man you doing too much.

Ya'll LOVE exaggerating/taking things out of context.

Utter failure is a quote from the Canucks this pre-season. Not my words. I believe that was from Miller and Horvat.

This has been the organizational mandate all year. And this is why Allvin had to apologize in his Hronek trade presser.

Boudreau: Canucks not making playoffs would be ‘a disaster’ – Sportsnet.ca

 

[JohnHodgson]

Would any superstar in their prime saying anything different than that?

I think literally every star player in their prime would say the same things when asked the same questions point blank, and there's a significant gap between those quotes and actually forcing a trade.

Hughes is a UFA in 4 years.

This isn't the same situation where we have a young star locked up for 8 years. He'll be gone or probably requesting a trade if there are no material results by year 2/3.

 

[Diogenes92]

Hughes is a UFA in 4 years.

This isn't the same situation where we have a young star locked up for 8 years. He'll be gone or probably requesting a trade if there are no material results by year 2/3.

But just for a second, imagine Allvin trading him to New Jersey this off-season...imagine the absolute haul he'd return. New Jersey would have to overpay simply for the fact that them having all 3 Hughes brothers would be a marketing dream for them.

Its so tempting, even if it has maybe a 2% chance of happening.

 

[gringo]

Genuine interest - can you elaborate on - when it matters?

Certainly not match when you’ve been effectively eliminated from playoff contention

Pettersson and Hughes and Demko haven't won a thing because of the sum of ALL the parts. We aren't losing because of these guys. I don't think the argument 'this core hasn't won anythjng' is based in reality. We are hockey fans and should know you need everything in line to win it all.

This team was sunk by Benning. His free agency contracts to bottom roster players, his targeted acquisitions via trade. I mean, it was all just a disaster. To critically look at Alvin's tenure and directly resemble it to Benning's tenure is disingenuous. Sure the philosophical direction of the organization seems to look the same - but the players they are targeting and wins they've had in trades should be somewhat encouraging to even the most disgruntled fan.

I hate to even say these words, but this management needs more time before pitchforks come out. They are still digging out of Benning's mess. Look at our worst contracts.

Boeser is one of our worst contracts it’s un-tradable- hell I’m Not sure he’d get picked up for free on waivers

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

But just for a second, imagine Allvin trading him to New Jersey this off-season...imagine the absolute haul he'd return. New Jersey would have to overpay simply for the fact that them having all 3 Hughes brothers would be a marketing dream for them.

Its so tempting, even if it has maybe a 2% chance of happening.

Then you might as well tear the whole thing down at that point, trade EP and Demko too
But that’s not happening isn’t it

 

[mriswith]

Hughes is a UFA in 4 years.

This isn't the same situation where we have a young star locked up for 8 years. He'll be gone or probably requesting a trade if there are no material results by year 2/3.

People use those quotes to backwards rationalize why we couldn't have sold the UFA's last year

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I feel that my main points are quite consistent and have merit.

I want to see results.

I don't think an aggressive retool is a viable plan, new management or not.

End of season success doesn't mean much when you have a less than 1% playoff chance.

Have my arguments been all over the place? Yes!

This is because I am debating 4 or 5 people at once. Its hard to keep things on topic when I am trying to answer to so many points and dealing with unnecessary, childish insults from some of them.

A rebuild is not happening no matter how much you post on this forum
Either you accept that reality, sit back and watch how they cook or you stop following this team until the owner changes his mind. Screaming rebuild online doesn’t do anything

At the end of the day, this is entertainment.

 

[gringo]

A rebuild is not happening no matter how much you post on this forum
Either you accept that reality, sit back and watch how they cook or you stop following this team until the owner changes his mind. Screaming rebuild online doesn’t do anything

At the end of the day, this is entertainment.

We got Benning fired by organizing fans online. Fans in this city play a huge role in the future of the team. Stop being a wrecker who for years said fans couldn’t end the Benning regime. we did.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

We got Benning fired by organizing fans online. Fans in this city play a huge role in the future of the team. Stop being a wrecker who for years said fans couldn’t end the Benning regime. we did.

We ended Benning, but we couldn’t force the owner to change the org’s direction

 

[gringo]

We ended Benning, but we couldn’t force the owner to change the org’s direction

That’s the next step. Fans in this city have created sea change once and we will do it again. Shame on the gaslighters who for years said we couldn’t stop the Benning regime. We did. The fans. Not management, not ownerships. The fans. Our power is in our fandom. Anyone saying otherwise is a wrecker. This is our team. We need to organizer ourselves online to fight the owner. Anything else isn’t being a fan, in the circumstance we are in.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

That’s the next step. Fans in this city have created sea change once and we will do it again. Shame on the gaslighters who for years said we couldn’t stop the Benning regime. We did. The fans. Not management, not ownerships. The fans. Our power is in our fandom. Anyone saying otherwise is a wrecker. This is our team.

Sure

 

[gringo]

Sure

Better than being a lame ass “we can’t do anything we are helpless so everyone stop debating” attitude of the soft ass Francesco fluffers.

 

[Diogenes92]

Then you might as well tear the whole thing down at that point, trade EP and Demko too
But that’s not happening isn’t it

Depends what they got in return. I'm talking: Nemec, Mercer+

Colorado traded OReilly and Duchene and won a cup without either.

Better than being a lame ass “we can’t do anything we are helpless so everyone stop debating” attitude of the soft ass Francesco fluffers.

Exactly.

Its fine for us to have hope and voice our concerns.

 

[JohnHodgson]

We got Benning fired by organizing fans online. Fans in this city play a huge role in the future of the team. Stop being a wrecker who for years said fans couldn’t end the Benning regime. we did.

Benning got Benning fired.

 

[Diogenes92]

A rebuild is not happening no matter how much you post on this forum
Either you accept that reality, sit back and watch how they cook or you stop following this team until the owner changes his mind. Screaming rebuild online doesn’t do anything

At the end of the day, this is entertainment.

Screaming for me not to say anything because my opinion isn't shared by management and ownership is literally one of the most asinine arguments anybody can make. And its not just you that has been spinning that nonsense.

Benning got Benning fired.

The fans chanting fire Benning didn't have anything to do with that?

Same as Gillis?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Would any superstar in their prime saying anything different than that?

I think literally every star player in their prime would say the same things when asked the same questions point blank, and there's a significant gap between those quotes and actually forcing a trade.

The pregnant headline from Hughes reads 'We're not here for a rebuild"

You know who 'we' is dont you..?....Why are you even debating this..?

 

[mriswith]

The pregnant headline from Hughes reads 'We're not here for a rebuild"

You know who 'we' is dont you..?....Why are you even debating this..?

Because if every superstar in their prime would say the same thing, does it actually mean anything?