Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[gringo]

Benning got Benning fired.

Wrong Benning would be here still if it wasn’t for the fans uprising

The pregnant headline from Hughes reads 'We're not here for a rebuild"

You know who 'we' is dont you..?....Why are you even debating this..?

Hughes also said “we have unfinished business this year” and clearly he was completely f***ing wrong because hockey players are usually morons that can’t run hockey teams

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Because if every superstar in their prime would say the same thing, does it actually mean anything?

Apparently it does..the management are obviously listening, and doing all in their power to reinforce. and not squander the best years of QH, and EP. (as JR stated he would do when he became Prez)..They've both been here 3-4 years, and have paid their rebuild dues..I'm 100% certain that QH means what he says here.

 

[racerjoe]

It took 8 years for fans to get Benning Fired.

I wish we had more power, but I don't think we really do.

 

[Diogenes92]

It took 8 years for fans to get Benning Fired.

I wish we had more power, but I don't think we really do.

Gillis was fired after one bad season and asking for permission to rebuild. The fans chanting for his head didn't help either. But that was relatively quick.

It all comes down to what Fatqulini wants. He was happy with Benning and his approach to building the team, so he got way more leeway. It took nearly 8 years for actual loud Fire Benning chants to ring out in Rogers Arena.

Allvin and Rutherford are following a similar plan that Fatqulini is on board with, so naturally they will also have a lot of leeway from him.

It would take some extreme measures from fans to be able to influence ownership this early on.

Season ticket holders would have to suddenly cancel in the thousands, citing their concerns, and at the same time the waitlist would also hwve to opt out.

The arena would also have to be full of sell the team (more likely) and fire Allvin/Rutherford chants on a game by game basis.

I don't think this will happen. There are simply too many fans on board with the current plan. Patience has been renewed for better or for worse.

 

[racerjoe]

It is also easy for certain media to keep fans thinking a direction is the right way... we saw this with Benning.

 

[andora]

People use those quotes to backwards rationalize why we couldn't have sold the UFA's last year

Who were the ufas last year to sell?

Or do you mean ufa 'contracts'

 

[mriswith]

Apparently it does..the management are obviously listening, and doing all in their power to reinforce. and not squander the best years of QH, and EP. (as JR stated he would do when he became Prez)..They've both been here 3-4 years, and have paid their rebuild dues..I'm 100% certain that QH means what he says here.

I think that's an ownership mandate.

My issue is when people use those quotes to support their argument that we couldn't sell the UFA's, especially last year, and reload around EP&QH. There's a huge range in what rebuild means to different people, to most people rebuild means some 5 year Chicago situation and frankly I'd be a lot more concerned if they'd said "oh yeah we're good with a rebuild"

I'm good with agreeing to disagree that a generic sentiment shared by every athlete in their prime means they'd have forced their way out if we'd started a reload last year, I think it's a lot more nuanced than that.

 

[Vector]

People use those quotes to backwards rationalize why we couldn't have sold the UFA's last year

The only UFA last season was Motte and he got traded.

 

[mriswith]

Who were the ufas last year to sell?

Or do you mean ufa 'contracts'

Horvat and Miller. Boeser as well if there was an offer or QO Boeser and sell him at 50% this deadline. Too late now but we could have walked into this draft with 4 1sts, a couple young players and high end prospects.

It's not technically accurate to call them UFA's, I'm just using it as a shorthand to avoid rehashing a ton of long posts from a year ago.

 

[andora]

Horvat and Miller. Boeser as well if there was an offer or QO Boeser and sell him at 50% this deadline. Too late now but we could have walked into this draft with 4 1sts, a couple young players and high end prospects.

It's not technically accurate to call them UFA's, I'm just using it as a shorthand to avoid rehashing a ton of long posts from a year ago.

Yeah ok.. yeah ufa contracts to be (boeser paid like it was)

Yeah last year was the year to decide

 

[gringo]

It took 8 years for fans to get Benning Fired.

I wish we had more power, but I don't think we really do.

Fans were divided by Benning nut huggers both in the media and wrecker fans constantly arguing how awesome Benning was. Fans were gaslit for years by media and Benning fans. Once fans United it was over for Benning. Lesson should be learned: never listen to the “fans” who say nothing is possible and that what we have is the best we are going to get.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I think that's an ownership mandate.

My issue is when people use those quotes to support their argument that we couldn't sell the UFA's, especially last year, and reload around EP&QH. There's a huge range in what rebuild means to different people, to most people rebuild means some 5 year Chicago situation and frankly I'd be a lot more concerned if they'd said "oh yeah we're good with a rebuild"

I'm good with agreeing to disagree that a generic sentiment shared by every athlete in their prime means they'd have forced their way out if we'd started a reload last year, I think it's a lot more nuanced than that.

If you listen to JR's comments on the team when he was first hired, he claimed that the 'rebuild cycle' was already completed with this team....and we were looking at an approximate 2 year retool.

I think that JR's and FA's mandate are in complete alignment as to the 'plan' here...They haven't altered course.

 

[gringo]

Gillis was fired after one bad season and asking for permission to rebuild. The fans chanting for his head didn't help either. But that was relatively quick.

It all comes down to what Fatqulini wants. He was happy with Benning and his approach to building the team, so he got way more leeway. It took nearly 8 years for actual loud Fire Benning chants to ring out in Rogers Arena.

Allvin and Rutherford are following a similar plan that Fatqulini is on board with, so naturally they will also have a lot of leeway from him.

It would take some extreme measures from fans to be able to influence ownership this early on.

Season ticket holders would have to suddenly cancel in the thousands, citing their concerns, and at the same time the waitlist would also hwve to opt out.

The arena would also have to be full of sell the team (more likely) and fire Allvin/Rutherford chants on a game by game basis.

I don't think this will happen. There are simply too many fans on board with the current plan. Patience has been renewed for better or for worse.

As someone who has family friends who know that family from way back in the day- deeply personal signs held by fans moved the family. Period. There were ZERO plans to fire Benning until fans stepped in. Zero.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Fans were divided by Benning nut huggers both in the media and wrecker fans constantly arguing how awesome Benning was. Fans were gaslit for years by media and Benning fans. Once fans United it was over for Benning. Lesson should be learned: never listen to the “fans” who say nothing is possible and that what we have is the best we are going to get.

The fans didnt get Benning fired..the results did.

 

[gringo]

The fans didnt get Benning fired..the results did.

Nope in fact the Aquilini’s had zero plan to fire Benning and only did it because the fans made it untenable to keep employing him. And yes the family was absolutely 100% effected by the personal signs fans held.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Nope in fact the Aquilini’s had zero plan to fire Benning and only did it because the fans made it untenable to keep employing him. And yes the family was absolutely 100% effected by the personal signs fans held.

The second first quarter collapse in a row was the reason...It's a as simple as that...results.

Folowed by another first quarter collapse this season by the current management.

If it happens again next season..Heads will roll yet again.

 

[gringo]

The second first quarter collapse in a row was the reason...It's a as simple as that...results.

Folowed by another first quarter collapse this season by the current management.

If it happens again next season..Heads will roll yet again.

I can’t believe you’re making this argument with a straight face. What changed all of a sudden for your ol pal Benning? Lmao dude you’re hilarious single handily the funniest poster on this site.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I can’t believe you’re making this argument with a straight face. What changed for all of a sudden for your ol pal Benning? Lmao dude you’re hilarious

Results matter.

If he had gotten his way and got Claude Julien to coach the team last season, Benning would most likely still be here...(Aqua refused).

Also, as a rule...As a GM...you get get to fire two head coaches..after that..you're next.

 

[Diogenes92]

As someone who has family friends who know that family from way back in the day- deeply personal signs held by fans moved the family. Period. There were ZERO plans to fire Benning until fans stepped in. Zero.

Wouldn't be surprised. Egos play a part with billionaires.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Dude given that it was fans that caused Bennings firing is this really the argument you want to make? That fans complaining can’t do anything? What? We literally just proved you wrong, mate.

Fans need to organize based on their common vision for this team. That’s the only way we can change what’s happening.

Sorry but that’s pretty funny. Aren’t there better things to focus on? More important causes to support with one’s time? But to each their own. I’ll enjoy watching the exciting young players on the team and hope for continued improvement.

After all, a cup is extremely unlikely rebuild or not.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Better than being a lame ass “we can’t do anything we are helpless so everyone stop debating” attitude of the soft ass Francesco fluffers.

It’s not our team.

 

[Bleach Clean]

For cap space wastage Boeser's contract is on new management, but otherwise we still have $9.25M on the IR with Ferland/Pearson/Poolman. We have $2.4M dead cap in buyouts to Holtby and Virtanen. Including Dickinson, there's $21M cap hit being spent on him, OEL, Myers, and Garland.

Let's create an alternate universe where Benning didn't get one last chance, didn't get to extend sign Poolman then sign & trade for Dickinson, and didn't get to exchange his prior wasted cap space on expiring contracts with the 9th overal pick for OEL and Garland. You think the Canucks would still be in 25th place right now with fewer mistakes and a good $15M (or however much) extra cap space to play with last summer?

That... doesn't matter. Where they would have been given hypotheticals does not get us closer to establishing what their baseline performance is right now. For that measure, their recent record is the best indicator. Would you not agree?

This does not mean Rutherford and Allvin cannot make the team better from its current state. It just gives us an agreed upon measure to judge the potential improvement.

If we had Yzerman for 5 years and were 24th, and he was still our GM... sure yep. If we had Yzerman for five years and then had a new GM for a year and a half not really.

This is more prevalent when your GM was Jim Benning.

I mean JR was hired 2014 and they won in 2016. When he remade the bottom 6 brought in Kessel, and remade the defense.

Thank you for providing the years to target. Ok, so if I am to understand Rutherford's impact on this re-tool, it's taking a good team that placed high already and bettering it to the point of winning a cup, correct?

Pittsburgh placement:
2014: 6th overall/2nd in the east
2015: 4th overall/2nd in the east
2016: 4th overall/2nd in the east

So an improvement by about 6 spots? (Without looking into the underlying numbers)

 

[racerjoe]

That... doesn't matter. Where they would have been given hypotheticals does not get us closer to establishing what their baseline performance is right now. For that measure, their recent record is the best indicator. Would you not agree?

This does not mean Rutherford and Allvin cannot make the team better from its current state. It just gives us an agreed upon measure to judge the potential improvement.





Thank you for providing the years to target. Ok, so if I am to understand Rutherford's impact on this re-tool, it's taking a good team that placed high already and bettering it to the point of winning a cup, correct?

Pittsburgh placement:
2014: 6th overall/2nd in the east
2015: 4th overall/2nd in the east
2016: 4th overall/2nd in the east

So an improvement by about 6 spots? (Without looking into the underlying numbers)

I don't think the specifics matter. You are getting too focused on specifics when you just can't. Every team has a different starting point and different opportunities that come up for it. I could have just as easily said the Canucks Pre Gillis vs when he came in and turned them into the top team in the NHL. If I chose that example it is more like 15 spots... I could chose a different team and maybe it would be ten spots.

The point is you can take a team with top end talent, and turn them around quick. Will we be able to? I have no clue, but it absolutely is a possibility and every bit as successful as a full scale rebuild.

 

[gringo]

Sorry but that’s pretty funny. Aren’t there better things to focus on? More important causes to support with one’s time? But to each their own. I’ll enjoy watching the exciting young players on the team and hope for continued improvement.

After all, a cup is extremely unlikely rebuild or not.

Being casual is ok nothing wrong with being a casual fan and having your heart bleed for all the causes like you said to each their own!

 

[DonnyNucker]

Being casual is ok nothing wrong with being a casual fan and having your heart bleed for all the causes like you said to each their own!

Ya I’m a casual fan! Been a fan for almost 40 years and attend almost every game. Also travel around watching them in different cities. So casual!