Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

none of us here know whether this is true or not

"We don't want to be here for a rebuild": Quinn Hughes supports Canucks retool | Offside

Wednesday's surprise trade with Detroit wasn't popular with a lot of Canucks fans, but it was likely well received with players and coaches.

dailyhive.com

Report: Canucks' Pettersson wants to 'play for a team that's winning'

As negotiations continue on a new contract for restricted free agent Elias Pettersson, the Canucks star reportedly says he wants to stay in Vancouver, but also emphasized his desire to "play for a team that's winning."

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[gringo]

How great would a compliance buyout be right about now?

One more expansion draft pls

 

[Diogenes92]

Allvin/Rutherford has been here for a little over a year.

Stop using a false equivalency to compare Benning to JR/Allvin.

New management, new coaching, new personnel.

You're like the dude who was cheated on and now unwilling to take on a new relationship. Your emotional intelligence is low.

You gotta move on buddy.

You still clinging onto PTSD from Benning's regime LOL.

It's cute that you have to throw around insults in what could've been a friendly debate. Maybe its you that has been cheated on?

What have Allvin and Rutherford proven during their tenure? They have proven to contradict themselves every other press conference. That doesn't give me confidence in their leadership.

"Not a quick fix." "Compete for the playoffs next year."

"Bubble run was an aberration." "We have to win now with this core."

"Demko was the only reason we even won so many games last year." "If we don't make the playoffs this year it will be an utter failure."

There is zero evidence that this core (Benning's core) can win when it matters. If they prove me wrong next year, I'll be the first person to support them. Not holding my breath here, though.

I'm clinging onto reality man. As I've said many times to you retoolies. Meaningful results matter.

 

[andora]

There is zero evidence that this core (Benning's core) can win when it matters. If they prove me wrong next year, I'll be the first person to support them. Not holding my breath here, though.

Genuine interest - can you elaborate on - when it matters?

 

[JohnHodgson]

It's cute that you have to throw around insults in what could've been a friendly debate. Maybe its you that has been cheated on?

What have Allvin and Rutherford proven during their tenure? They have proven to contradict themselves every other press conference. That doesn't give me confidence in their leadership.

"Not a quick fix." "Compete for the playoffs next year."

"Bubble run was an aberration." "We have to win now with this core."

"Demko was the only reason we even won so many games last year." "If we don't make the playoffs this year it will be an utter failure."

There is zero evidence that this core (Benning's core) can win when it matters. If they prove me wrong next year, I'll be the first person to support them. Not holding my breath here, though.

I'm clinging onto reality man. As I've said many times to you retoolies. Meaningful results matter.

You're still talking about a rebuild but claiming that you're clinging onto reality??

What??

Nah... if you're only supportive when the team is supportive, that just makes you a bandwagoner. Don't need that here.

There is zero evidence that this core (Benning's core) can win when it matters. If they prove me wrong next year, I'll be the first person to support them. Not holding my breath here, though.

LMAO.

Petey is 24 and Hughes is 23 - get off your high horse bud. You expected Petey and Hughes to be dominating the league and winning Stanley Cups at 21 years old??? They are emerging into superstars this year and were also great in the bubble playoffs. You're so out of touch with reality, it's not worth responding to.

Genuine interest - can you elaborate on - when it matters?

Don't worry, that poster literally makes no sense.

Petey is 24 and Hughes is 23.

That guy thought Petey and Hughes were going to win championships at 21???

That guy is writing off a core that is 24 and 23 years old respectively. Makes no effing sense. Everyone's entitled to their opinions but man... dude's just out of touch with reality.

 

[Diogenes92]

Genuine interest - can you elaborate on - when it matters?

When they have more than a 1% chance at making the playoffs?

This season doesn't matter. Its practice time.

If they can put themselves in a realistic playoff race next season and win games down the stretch that actually qualities them for the playoffs, those will be wins that matter.

Its garbage time now. Next season will be put up or shutup time.

 

[JohnHodgson]

You mean like being cheated on and then the new girl acts the exact same way as the first one did? Who wouldn't "cling onto ptsd"???? after that?

Bennings first year.....

Draft underwhelming winger with his first pick....check

Says he thinks we can make the playoffs....check

Spends all the leftover money in
free agency trying to make said playoffs.....check

Trades picks for projects......check

Trades even more picks for roster players....check

Misses playoffs....check

Capped out.....check

Coaching change at the wrong time for a nice little bump up the standings.....check

If you think Benning and JR/Allvin are anything alike.

I'd suggest you pause your fandom to go spend time doing something else.

False equivalencies are a bane of hockey discussion.

 

[Diogenes92]

You're still talking about a rebuild but claiming that you're clinging onto reality??

What??

Nah... if you're only supportive when the team is supportive, that just makes you a bandwagoner. Don't need that here.

There is zero evidence that this core (Benning's core) can win when it matters. If they prove me wrong next year, I'll be the first person to support them. Not holding my breath here, though.

LMAO.

Petey is 24 and Hughes is 23 - get off your high horse bud. You expected Petey and Hughes to be dominating the league and winning Stanley Cups at 21 years old??? They are emerging into superstars this year and were also great in the bubble playoffs. You're so out of touch with reality, it's not worth responding to.



Don't worry, that poster literally makes no sense.

Petey is 24 and Hughes is 23.

That guy thought Petey and Hughes were going to win championships at 21???

That guy is writing off a core that is 24 and 23 years old respectively. Makes no effing sense. Everyone's entitled to their opinions but man... dude's just out of touch with reality.

I was tempted to reply with my views, but you're actually so delusional that I don't see the point. Kudos. You sound like an angry teenager.

Continuing to debate with you would be akin to me banging my head against a metal pole.

Also, meaningful results matter.

 

[andora]

When they have more than a 1% chance at making the playoffs?

This season doesn't matter. Its practice time.

If they can put themselves in a realistic playoff race next season and win games down the stretch that actually qualities them for the playoffs, those will be wins that matter.

Its garbage time now. Next season will be put up or shutup time.

Ok fair enough

Another legit question. Last years playoff race - was that a when it matters?

 

[JohnHodgson]

I was tempted to reply with my views, but you're actually so delusional that I don't see the point. Kudos. You sound like an angry teenager.

Continuing to debate with you would be akin to me banging my head against a metal pole.

Also, meaningful results matter.

I love how you're banging the drum on "meaningful results" about a core that's 24 and 23 years old respectively.

How delusional are you buddy?

McDavid is 26 and hasn't produced any "meaningful results". Draisaitl is 27 and hasn't produced any "meaningful results".

Oilers should trade these duds and reubild.

Right?

Right??

Ok fair enough

Another legit question. Last years playoff race - was that a when it matters?

Nothing matters to these guys unless it's a deep playoff run.

Anything else is "meaningless".

 

[Diogenes92]

Ok fair enough

Another legit question. Last years playoff race - was that a when it matters?

It wasn't a playoff race.

I base those numbers on the experts percentage chance of the team making the playoffs.

They had a less than 5% chance for nearly the entire season. It seemed a lot closer than it actually was. And that's not me just being biased either. All of the analysts that I've listened had the exact same opinion.

 

[Gurn]

Whole lot of it going on.
Try to discuss what someone said-.

nobody said the only meaning full wins are in play offs.

 

[Diogenes92]

I love how you're banging the drum on "meaningful results" about a core that's 24 and 23 years old respectively.

How delusional are you buddy?

McDavid is 26 and hasn't produced any "meaningful results". Draisaitl is 27 and hasn't produced any "meaningful results".

Oilers should trade these duds and reubild.

Right?

Right??



Nothing matters to these guys unless it's a deep playoff run.

Anything else is "meaningless".

Lol. Comparing McDavid and Draisaitl to Petey and Hughes. You just lost all credibility with that one brutal comparison.

Yes. Petey and Hughes are young. They'd still be young after a 3-4 year rebuild where picks and prospects were accumulated.

According to you the entire Benning regime is a wash and it nevered happened, no? It can't be used as an example of why retools fail. The Hronek trade is the exact type of trade that Benning would make, imo.

 

[andora]

It wasn't a playoff race.

I base those numbers on the experts percentage chance of the team making the playoffs.

They had a less than 5% chance for nearly the entire season. It seemed a lot closer than it actually was. And that's not me just being biased either. All of the analysts that I've listened had the exact same opinion.

Well i believe the players would disagree with you and probably say those games were meaningful.. but ok.. thanks

 

[JohnHodgson]

Lol. Comparing McDavid and Draisaitl to Petey and Hughes. You just lost all credibility with that one brutal comparison.

Yes. Petey and Hughes are young. They'd still be young after a 3-4 year rebuild where picks and prospects were accumulated.

According to you the entire Benning regime is a wash and it nevered happened, no? It can't be used as an example of why retools fail. The Hronek trade is the exact type of trade that Benning would make, imo.

Hughes is a UFA in 4 years - he's likely gone if the team sucks.

I actually hated Benning since the Kesler/Bonino/Sutter deals. I left this board because of the unwavering support of JB - it was sick. I only recently came back after JB was fired.

I'm probably the biggest Jim Benning hater on this planet.

I get you man. I empathize the pain and frusturations.

JB and Allvin are nothing alike. I guarantee you.

Benning proactively acquired Gudbranson (defensive defenseman that couldn't play defense), and OEL (completely washed up has-been) in an "attempt" to improve their defenseman. Allvin got a 25 year old cost controlled #2/3 dman. It's not the same man.

I understand your pain but you have to separate the two. It's not the same.

 

[Diogenes92]

Well i believe the players would disagree with you and probably say those games were meaningful.. but ok.. thanks

Good for them. They sure followed up with an inspired performance this season, right?

 

[andora]

Good for them. They sure followed up with an inspired performance this season, right?

oh.. you got me.. you win?

the team was terrible, we know that. i was specifically asking about a specific thing that could be up for debate.

 

[Diogenes92]

Hughes is a UFA in 4 years - he's likely gone if the team sucks.

I actually hated Benning since the Kesler/Bonino/Sutter deals. I left this board because of the unwavering support of JB - it was sick. I only recently came back after JB was fired.

I'm probably the biggest Jim Benning hater on this planet.

I get you man. I empathize the pain and frusturations.

JB and Allvin are nothing alike. I guarantee you.

Benning proactively acquired Gudbranson (defensive defenseman that couldn't play defense), and OEL (completely washed up has-been) in an "attempt" to improve their defenseman. Allvin got a 25 year old cost controlled #2/3 dman. It's not the same man.

I understand your pain but you have to separate the two. It's not the same.

Trading high draft picks for age-gap players could be looked at by a reasonable person as the same strategy.

Different players? Yes.

Different GMs? Yes.

Similar approach and strategy? I'd say yes.

Will the results differ? That remains to be seen. No Canucks fan that has bee watching for the last decade should assume end of season success means anything.

Its not an optimistic view, but it is logical.

 

[Diogenes92]

oh.. you got me.. you win?

the team was terrible, we know that. i was specifically asking about a specific thing that could be up for debate.

Why is it such a controverisal take for me to want to see playoff results before I say thay a retool might actually work?

Some fans in this market seem to have zero standards. Meaningful results matter.

Meaningful in a 'logical sense', not 'players in the locker room feeling good about themselves sense.'

 

[andora]

Why is it such a controverisal take for me to want to see playoff results before I say thay a retool might actually work?

Some fans in this market seem to have zero standards. Meaningful results matter.

Meaningful in a 'logical sense', not 'players in the locker room feeling good about themselves sense.'

jesus, this like watching my cat on catnip

i didn't say anything about what you wanting being controversial. i do agree the next meaningful thing this core group needs to do is get this team into a playoff spot. that is the next step

 

[strattonius]

Lol. Comparing McDavid and Draisaitl to Petey and Hughes. You just lost all credibility with that one brutal comparison.

Yes. Petey and Hughes are young. They'd still be young after a 3-4 year rebuild where picks and prospects were accumulated.

According to you the entire Benning regime is a wash and it nevered happened, no? It can't be used as an example of why retools fail. The Hronek trade is the exact type of trade that Benning would make, imo.

Pettersson and Hughes and Demko haven't won a thing because of the sum of ALL the parts. We aren't losing because of these guys. I don't think the argument 'this core hasn't won anythjng' is based in reality. We are hockey fans and should know you need everything in line to win it all.

This team was sunk by Benning. His free agency contracts to bottom roster players, his targeted acquisitions via trade. I mean, it was all just a disaster. To critically look at Alvin's tenure and directly resemble it to Benning's tenure is disingenuous. Sure the philosophical direction of the organization seems to look the same - but the players they are targeting and wins they've had in trades should be somewhat encouraging to even the most disgruntled fan.

I hate to even say these words, but this management needs more time before pitchforks come out. They are still digging out of Benning's mess. Look at our worst contracts.

 

[credulous]

playoffs aren't meaningful alone. any team can go all in for a season or two and make the playoffs. i need to see a foundation for sustained success before i give this group any credit. if they continue to prioritize short term success over long term health it doesn't matter whether they make the playoffs

 

[Diogenes92]

jesus, this like watching my cat on catnip

i didn't say anything about what you wanting being controversial. i do agree the next meaningful thing this core group needs to do is get this team into a playoff spot. that is the next step

Ive been dogpilied by retool supporters. You included. That's why im wondering why I am annoying so many people by having an opinion.

Its not me that's overreacting. Maybe not you, either. But the evidence is in this thread.

Pettersson and Hughes and Demko haven't won a thing because of the sum of ALL the parts. We aren't losing because of these guys. I don't think the argument 'this core hasn't won anythjng' is based in reality. We are hockey fans and should know you need everything in line to win it all.

This team was sunk by Benning. His free agency contracts to bottom roster players, his targeted acquisitions via trade. I mean, it was all just a disaster. To critically look at Alvin's tenure and directly resemble it to Benning's tenure is disingenuous. Sure the philosophical direction of the organization seems to look the same - but the players they are targeting and wins they've had in trades should be somewhat encouraging to even the most disgruntled fan.

I hate to even say these words, but this management needs more time before pitchforks come out. They are still digging out of Benning's mess. Look at our worst contracts.

So, in summary, you are preaching patience?

An aggressive retool doesn't speak of patience. And Allvin has said this year and next year that no playoffs is an utter failure. So in their own words, they are utterly failing as of now.

They seem to be putting a lot of immediate pressure on themselves if you ask me.

 

[andora]

Ive been dogpilied by retool supporters. You included. That's why im wondering why I am annoying so many people by having an opinion.

Its not me that's overreacting. Maybe not you, either. But the evidence is in this thread.


So, in summary, you are preaching patience?

An aggressive retool doesn't speak of patience. And Allvin has said this year and next year that no playoffs is an utter failure. So in their own words, they are utterly failing as of now.

They seem to be putting a lot of immediate pressure on themselves if you ask me.

i don't feel i have dogpiled on you - i keep asking you questions when i'm interested in something you said. i find it a little all over the place, and lots of examples of seemingly misrepresenting what some say in order to go off on a tangent, but some other stuff i understand..

 

[Diogenes92]

playoffs aren't meaningful alone. any team can go all in for a season or two and make the playoffs. i need to see a foundation for sustained success before i give this group any credit. if they continue to prioritize short term success over long term health it doesn't matter whether they make the playoffs

That seems too reasonable a take for this thread. Watch out.