Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[bandwagonesque]

I can admit that I honestly don't know whether a rebuild or a retool is a better idea at this point. The team has two legitimate stars, possibly three if Demko is healthy, and very little prospect capital or cap space. It seems like there really isn't a good path to contention and the question is how many instances of good fortune you can potentially encounter in each scenario, leaving aside that good fortune is required at this point.

 

[IslandBeast]

Ahh yes, the McDonagh and Kurdysatsev signings should help calm the waters.

"Look everybody, we have prospects, we're fine"

 

[theguardianII]

If I was an agent for a college player I might want to look at Tocchet's resumes for playing young players.
ALL young players on Vancouver have had their ice time reduced quite a bit with Tocchet.
Not really helping development or confidence.
Pod down to 8 mins now under Tocchet, remember when he hit 9 min with Bruce it was better for him to go to Abby?
Kravstov was going to get a better chance now, nope, less ice time now.

Every younger player on this team now ride the bench more with Tocchet. As he said he is not here to teach..

What young guy wants to go to a team where the plug could be pulled after a single mistake that the vets make over and over again but get rewarded.

This kid they just signed is big and could be a third line type of guy, a complimentary player project destined for the AHL for awhile. But an addition to the prospect pool making it look much better.

Livingstone is the signing needed here IF Tocchet will play him.

 

[Jyrki21]

What's said here doesn't "accomplish anything" with respect to what the team does. Most understand that.

If the team makes a move that's bad for the retool, you're allowed to say so, even though that doesn't accomplish anything. If you think that the overall direction of management is mistaken, you're allowed to say that too, repeatedly, as many did during the Benning era and many will continue to do when current management shows similar short-sightedness.

People aren't going to stop criticizing just because it isn't what you like to read, nor should they.

It would also help if the team wasn’t mired in a decade of proving that message-board and Twitter critics have been right about everything. They don’t exactly get any benefit of the doubt as they charge against the odds, weapons drawn.

 

[Diogenes92]

What's pathetic, is when people can't control their emotions and then vent in every thread about the same damn thing over and over. It isn't about stifling free speech, lol. It's about wanting to read duscussion on the topic at hand, not having the rebuild agenda crammed down our throats in every single thread.

So this board should cater to your views and ignore everyone elses?

 

[krutovsdonut]

i think so far the gambles ruthervin took on hiring tochett mid-season, moving horvat and keeping miller, all seem to be paying off. even kravtsov is looking like a prospect so far.

there's clearly a positive shift in mindset on that squad. there's zero sign anyone has a problem with miller. pettersson seems to be in a happy place. even myers may have found his composure for now.

i don't know if this is just relief from weathering the tdl plus demko back plus new faces, or whether the team in fact made the right moves. it surely seems like the moves didn't hurt.

it remains to be seen how the gamble on hronek works out, but if he is a difference maker i can see the team carrying a lot of momentum into the offseason. we also still have to see what happens with the isle's pick.

i also feel like the developing players may get some momentum. all the ahl guys playing well on the roster and the recent brisebois and pdg deals are going to motivate a lot of guys.

i am not a big believer in digging in and saying "even though it worked out these were the wrong moves". i don't know what these guys knew that i did not. so i will be eating a large amount of crow if they can carry off the progression we are seeing into next season.

 

[Diogenes92]

But this isnt what he said - He didnt say - so stop it.

And actually brought up a good idea about a thread dedicated to discussing a rebuild

Saying something is pointless and there's no point in talking about it, means what to you?

Him saying that people should go away and talk about a rebuild in another thread means that he wants us to stay and continue discussing it?

No, it clearly doesn't.

I can admit that I honestly don't know whether a rebuild or a retool is a better idea at this point. The team has two legitimate stars, possibly three if Demko is healthy, and very little prospect capital or cap space. It seems like there really isn't a good path to contention and the question is how many instances of good fortune you can potentially encounter in each scenario, leaving aside that good fortune is required at this point.

Apparently we aren't allowed to talk about rebuilds in here. Better be careful or you'll get ganged up on.

 

[andora]

Saying something is pointless and there's no point in talking about it, means what to you?

Him saying that people should go away and talk about a rebuild in another thread means that he wants us to stay and continue discussing it?

No, it clearly doesn't.


Apparently we aren't allowed to talk about rebuilds in here. Better be careful or you'll get ganged up on.

it obviously doesn't matter what my response is as you will create something else out of it.

 

[Diogenes92]

What's said here doesn't "accomplish anything" with respect to what the team does. Most understand that.

If the team makes a move that's bad for the retool, you're allowed to say so, even though that doesn't accomplish anything. If you think that the overall direction of management is mistaken, you're allowed to say that too, repeatedly, as many did during the Benning era and many will continue to do when current management shows similar short-sightedness.

People aren't going to stop criticizing just because it isn't what you like to read, nor should they.

Exactly.

Differing opinions are what makes meaningful debates and discussion.

It should be encouraged. Not censored.

 

[Diogenes92]

it obviously doesn't matter what my response is as you will create something else out of it.

I paraphrased his quote. He didn't directly say "stop it". But his words insinuated exactly that sentiment.

 

[rypper]

How great would a compliance buyout be right about now?

 

[mriswith]

How great would a compliance buyout be right about now?

I thought that too shortly after the OEL trade but when I looked around the league, I didn't think there were enough franchises with genuine anchors to get enough votes on a compliance buyout to pass.

 

[RandV]

It would also help if the team wasn’t mired in a decade of proving that message-board and Twitter critics have been right about everything. They don’t exactly get any benefit of the doubt as they charge against the odds, weapons drawn.

That's kind of slanted from having Jim Benning for 8 of those years. When the GM can't beat out a potato then of course people on twitter/message boards are going to be right most of the time. It's been so long but normally I'd assume things are a little more balanced.

 

[Diogenes92]

That's kind of slanted from having Jim Benning for 8 of those years. When the GM can't beat out a potato then of course people on twitter/message boards are going to be right most of the time. It's been so long but normally I'd assume things are a little more balanced.

A lot of people supported Benning throughout his tenure.

It was the last season or two where a lot of his supporters turned on him.

Saying that Benning's entire tenure is a wash is disingenuous when there truly was a large contingent of fans who supported his regime.

There are a lot of people to blame for how long Benning was able to keep his job. But it still has to be looked at from a reasonable perspective.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Are there actually people in here saying its a waste of time to argue for a rebuild and pointless to argue against a retool?

It's mind-boggling. Asanine. Embarassing.

Okay, rebuild crowd. Let's just roll over a play dead for the next 2 or 3 years and not.voice our concerns and frustrations because the retool crowd is clearly sick of it and doesn't want to read it.

Let's be good, submissive little fans and throw away our keyboards.

One side is opting to operate in reality.

The other side is whining and moaning about a reality that likely will never happen.

That’s the difference. We get you guys want the rebuild. Some of us are literally on your side. The reality is that it’s not happening.

We choose to operate in reality instead of wasting time to discuss more imaginary hypotheticals/fantasies.

But go off king.

 

[racerjoe]

For the record what I was talking about is like when people say we should do a full rebuild... but keep Petey and Hughes. Things that literally in no world can happen.

 

[Diogenes92]

One side is opting to operate in reality.

The other side is whining and moaning about a reality that likely will never happen.

That’s the difference. We get you guys want the rebuild. Some of us are literally on your side. The reality is that it’s not happening.

We choose to operate in reality instead of wasting time to discuss more imaginary hypotheticals/fantasies.

But go off king.

You mean supporting incompetence?

You guys are embarrassing yourselves with these arguments. Just stop.

You won't be able to silence the rebuild crowd. And its not like you have any evidence that a retool will work for this team either.

Time for something different.

 

[JohnHodgson]

You mean supporting incompetence?

You guys are embarrassing yourselves with these arguments. Just stop.

You won't be able to silence the rebuild crowd. And its not like you have any evidence that a retool will work for this team either.

Time for something different.

Allvin/Rutherford has been here for a little over a year.

Stop using a false equivalency to compare Benning to JR/Allvin.

New management, new coaching, new personnel.

You're like the dude who was cheated on and now unwilling to take on a new relationship. Your emotional intelligence is low.

You gotta move on buddy.

You still clinging onto PTSD from Benning's regime LOL.

 

[credulous]

For the record what I was talking about is like when people say we should do a full rebuild... but keep Petey and Hughes. Things that literally in no world can happen.

none of us here know whether this is true or not

 

[Hodgy]

none of us here know whether this is true or not

There is also a difference between what we think should happen, and what we think will happen.

 

[JohnHodgson]

For the record what I was talking about is like when people say we should do a full rebuild... but keep Petey and Hughes. Things that literally in no world can happen.

Yeah don't worry about it.

The "rebuild" crew are "mostly" living in their own fantasy world, excluding the realities of the situation. They are a walking hypocrite if I have to be honest. Hughes is literally a UFA in 4 years - he'll just walk if we still suck.

They ignore realities to help build out a narrative. They draw false equivalency to the Benning era. They think rebuilding is a guarantee (when it's not).

 

[racerjoe]

none of us here know whether this is true or not

You don't want to take both Petterson and Hughes own words? Ok.

 

[tradervik]

none of us here know whether this is true or not

If knowing that something is true was the bar for offering an opinion here, the boards would be empty. On the other hand, it would be nice if people stopped offering their opinions as if they were the absolute truth.

 

[gringo]

Thinking it's a bad move for the retool, is one thing - like thinking that Hronek for example, doesn't bring the right skillset for what the team needs - but complaining about how management should be doing a teardown rebuild in the Hronek player discussion thread... it just comes off as unhinged venting. Like complaining for the sake of complaining.

People aren't going to stop criticizing the rebuild complainers for hijacking every single thread, nor should they.

Dude given that it was fans that caused Bennings firing is this really the argument you want to make? That fans complaining can’t do anything? What? We literally just proved you wrong, mate.

Fans need to organize based on their common vision for this team. That’s the only way we can change what’s happening.

 

[IslandBeast]

Allvin/Rutherford has been here for a little over a year.

Stop using a false equivalency to compare Benning to JR/Allvin.

New management, new coaching, new personnel.

You're like the dude who was cheated on and now unwilling to take on a new relationship. Your emotional intelligence is low.

You gotta move on buddy.

You still clinging onto PTSD from Benning's regime LOL.

You mean like being cheated on and then the new girl acts the exact same way as the first one did? Who wouldn't "cling onto ptsd"???? after that?

Bennings first year.....

Draft underwhelming winger with his first pick....check

Says he thinks we can make the playoffs....check

Spends all the leftover money in
free agency trying to make said playoffs.....check

Trades picks for projects......check

Trades even more picks for roster players....check

Misses playoffs....check

Capped out.....check

Coaching change at the wrong time for a nice little bump up the standings.....check