Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[Diogenes92]

I was "cherry" picking your main point...

@Josepho seems to have done a full break down.

If you are asking what my opinion of this team has been with the end of seasons... I have said pretty much since Benning was here we were not going to be good. Last year I didn't think we would be good this season. After the offseason I thought we would be 5th in the division... is that optimistic? I don't know I will let you judge.

My main point throughout the thread was that late season success means nothing for this team. Not only because of coaching changes.

I listed multiple other reasons in previous posts. Some examples are that the playoff pressure is off so its easier to play loose, role players are playing for jobs next year so they play hard for different reasons other than playoffs, etc.

 

[racerjoe]

My main point throughout the thread was that late season success means nothing for this team. Not only because of coaching changes.

I listed multiple other reasons in previous posts. Some examples are that the playoff pressure is off so its easier to play loose, role players are playing for jobs next year so they play hard for different reasons other than playoffs, etc.

You started to say that again after I made my point... I again was responding to the original point you made. Ever since I keep telling you this is what I am responding to and you keep trying to make points other than this.

Like I am not trying to debate the rest of what you said. Though again I think @Josepho did a good job.

 

[Diogenes92]

You started to say that again after I made my point... I again was responding to the original point you made. Ever since I keep telling you this is what I am responding to and you keep trying to make points other than this.

Like I am not trying to debate the rest of what you said. Though again I think @Josepho did a good job.

All I see from that dudes post is more excuses from the anti-rebuild crowd. Benning and Green's fault! Not the core!

Boudreau was hailed as the literal saviour of this team until it wasn't convenient to say that any longer.

Tochett is the new saviour... until he won't be.

I tire of the excuses from the delusional fans, players, mangement, and ownership.

I guess we just have to wait and see what happens next year when the pressure is up and the team once again states playoffs or bust.

 

[Canucks LB]

Keeping JT and trading Horvat is starting to look a lot better, it’s going to be fun to see how this shakes out in the next few years

 

[racerjoe]

Anybody who knows this team well will know that the Canucks having late-season garbage-time success under a new coach should not be used as proof that they're finally figuring things out for next season.

Just so we can be on the same page here. This was your first point... no where does this make it sound like its just the garbage time that you keep making this out to be. You have now dragged this out 3 pages because you made an incorrect statement.

All I see from that dudes post is more excuses from the anti-rebuild crowd. Benning and Green's fault! Not the core!

Boudreau was hailed as the literal saviour of this team until it wasn't convenient to say that any longer.

Tochett is the new saviour... until he won't be.

I tire of the excuses from the delusional fans, players, mangement, and ownership.

I guess we just have to wait and see what happens next year when the pressure is up and the team once again states playoffs or bust.

I don't know what you are reading. His post says pretty much there was no optimism from the play at the end of the seasons. When there was it was because of new players we were getting and even mentioned how incorrect that was.

But oh yeah tired excuses...

 

[Josepho]

All I see from that dudes post is more excuses from the anti-rebuild crowd. Benning and Green's fault! Not the core!

Boudreau was hailed as the literal saviour of this team until it wasn't convenient to say that any longer.

Tochett is the new saviour... until he won't be.

I tire of the excuses from the delusional fans, players, mangement, and ownership.

I guess we just have to wait and see what happens next year when the pressure is up and the team once again states playoffs or bust.

I don't know how you interpreted what I posted in that way but what do people wanting to "change the core" even consider to be the core? Like, we just traded our captain, there's a decent chance that our Top 4 defence will possibly have one player (Hughes) that was here at the start of this season, and a guy like Boeser will probably end up being moved as well. That's a pretty big amount of turnover, and that team will have very little overlap with the teams in 2019 or whatever.

Like, pretty much everyone here is advocating moving off of OEL/Myers/Boeser in the offseason. Unless you somehow equate Pettersson and Hughes to being the players we should move off of as well, you're just screaming into the void about people being fine with the core. Nobody here thinks that.

 

[arttk]

All I see from that dudes post is more excuses from the anti-rebuild crowd. Benning and Green's fault! Not the core!

Ok who do you mean when you say the “core”.

 

[Diogenes92]

Just so we can be on the same page here. This was your first point... no where does this make it sound like its just the garbage time that you keep making this out to be. You have now dragged this out 3 pages because you made an incorrect statement.



I don't know what you are reading. His post says pretty much there was no optimism from the play at the end of the seasons. When there was it was because of new players we were getting and even mentioned how incorrect that was.

But oh yeah tired excuses...

The post is there for you to read and you still can't garner any other meaning from it? At all?

Ok. So the "the team is not doing good because of Boudreau but mostly in spite of Benning and Green" isn't an excuse after the fact?

Where were these sentiments from the retool apologists when Boudreau had the team on a heater? I sure didnt see any.

Warping narratives to fit an argument is certainly a debating strategy. Not something I have a lot of time for, though.

 

[Diogenes92]

I don't know how you interpreted what I posted in that way but what do people wanting to "change the core" even consider to be the core? Like, we just traded our captain, there's a decent chance that our Top 4 defence will possibly have one player (Hughes) that was here at the start of this season, and a guy like Boeser will probably end up being moved as well. That's a pretty big amount of turnover, and that team will have very little overlap with the teams in 2019 or whatever.

Like, pretty much everyone here is advocating moving off of OEL/Myers/Boeser in the offseason. Unless you somehow equate Pettersson and Hughes to being the players we should move off of as well, you're just screaming into the void about people being fine with the core. Nobody here thinks that.

The "Benning and Green" statement is what I was referring to. A pretty appalling one at that.

In terms of the core, I'm referring to Allvins guys he mentioned in the presser. A core that has proven nothing in terms of sustained success.

Not sure why its such a hard concept to want to see meaningful results before assuming anything, as many are want to do on here.

 

[Josepho]

The "Benning and Green" statement is what I was referring to. A pretty appalling one at that.

In terms of the core, I'm referring to Allvins guys he mentioned in the presser. A core that has proven nothing in terms of sustained success.

Not sure why its such a hard concept to want to see meaningful results before assuming anything, as many are want to do on here.

In my post, was saying that Pettersson and Hughes (especially Pettersson) clearly weren't playing with any motivation at all and after Benning/Green left they both exploded as players. I don't see how that's remotely controversial. They've still maintained that level of play - If you asked me 18 months ago I would've been very skeptical about building around those 2 but now I think it's definitely possible.

I assume this is the quote you're referring to:

On this list of players we have:
A) A guy who has literally played 0 games here.
B) A guy who is playing in his first NHL season.
C) A guy who is 24, 10th in scoring, and plays the most valuable position in the game.
D) A guy who is 23, 5th in scoring amongst defenceman, and has showed significant improvement in his own zone.
E) A goaltender who has come off of multiple .915 seasons who was injured at the start of the season but now looks like himself again.
F) Our best player from last year, has been way more inconsistent this year.

So this basically equates to you wanting to trade Miller/Demko? Obviously results matter, but you've framed this as if this "core" has been given constant chances and have failed. The only way this makes sense is if you're equating Pettersson/Hughes/Demko/Miller to be the major issues with this team.

 

[Diogenes92]

In my post, was saying that Pettersson and Hughes (especially Pettersson) clearly weren't playing with any motivation at all and after Benning/Green left they both exploded as players. I don't see how that's remotely controversial. They've still maintained that level of play - If you asked me 18 months ago I would've been very skeptical about building around those 2 but now I think it's definitely possible.

I assume this is the quote you're referring to:
View attachment 667651
On this list of players we have:
A) A guy who has literally played 0 games here.
B) A guy who is playing in his first NHL season.
C) A guy who is 24, 10th in scoring, and plays the most valuable position in the game.
D) A guy who is 23, 5th in scoring amongst defenceman, and has showed significant improvement in his own zone.
E) A goaltender who has come off of multiple .915 seasons who was injured at the start of the season but now looks like himself again.
F) Our best player from last year, has been way more inconsistent this year.

So this basically equates to you wanting to trade Miller/Demko? Obviously results matter, but you've framed this as if this "core" has been given constant chances and have failed. The only way this makes sense is if you're equating Pettersson/Hughes/Demko/Miller to be the major issues with this team.

The part of the core that has been around long enough to do something meaningful (JT, Petey, Hughes, Demko, formerly Boeser), hasn't accomplished zilch. In fact, they've looked extremely fragile when the going gets tough.

I have never said that Demko, Miller, Petey, Hughes have not done anything individually that isn't extremely impressive. The stats are impressive. The results are not.

I mean, I don't even know if last year was a Boudreau thing as much as it was an "Anyone but Green and Benning" thing.

This is what I am referring to. Appalling.

Petey and Hughes have always been unique takents and their individual stats are truly special this year. Kudos to them.

As a side note, can you and racerjoe take a chill pill for a sec?

I do find this dogpile routine cute and hilarious, but it is becoming a bit much.

 

[rypper]

Keeping JT and trading Horvat is starting to look a lot better, it’s going to be fun to see how this shakes out in the next few years

Horvat 36 goals/63 points in 65 games.

Miller 24 goals/60 points in 64 games.

Super close, could see Horvat's goals go up if Barzal gets healthy.

 

[centipede2233]

Horvat 36 goals/63 points in 65 games.

Miller 24 goals/60 points in 64 games.

Super close, could see Horvat's goals go up if Barzal gets healthy.

The problem for NYI is that most of those numbers are horvat in a contract year playing for a lottery ticket. JT numbers are after he is guaranteed his lottery ticket. Massive difference. Contract year vs first year after contract year. It’s like comparing an apple to an orange

 

[andora]

The "Benning and Green" statement is what I was referring to. A pretty appalling one at that.

In terms of the core, I'm referring to Allvins guys he mentioned in the presser. A core that has proven nothing in terms of sustained success.

Not sure why its such a hard concept to want to see meaningful results before assuming anything, as many are want to do on here.

What would be the first meaningful result?

 

[Diogenes92]

What would be the first meaningful result?

2nd round of playoffs would be a good start towards something meaningful.

 

[gringo]

All I see from that dudes post is more excuses from the anti-rebuild crowd. Benning and Green's fault! Not the core!

Boudreau was hailed as the literal saviour of this team until it wasn't convenient to say that any longer.

Tochett is the new saviour... until he won't be.

I tire of the excuses from the delusional fans, players, mangement, and ownership.

I guess we just have to wait and see what happens next year when the pressure is up and the team once again states playoffs or bust.

Me waiting for this team to finally quit with the mediocrity and moral victories and finally rebuild:

 

[andora]

2nd round of playoffs would be a good start towards something meaningful.

interesting - .. personally i feel that skips a step (playoffs - good showing in first round) - but ok

 

[gringo]

interesting - .. personally i feel that skips a step (playoffs - good showing in first round) - but ok

Just getting to the playoffs and looking like you belong is a pretty small step to becoming a “contender”. You’re not even in the conversation if you can’t make the playoffs and look like you belong.

The bar is so low for this franchise that just making the playoffs and not being humiliated in round 1 is something so huge most of us can’t even picture it.

 

[Diogenes92]

interesting - .. personally i feel that skips a step (playoffs - good showing in first round) - but ok

Half of the league qualifies for the playoffs. It's not exactly a lofty goal.

Weak divisions make that even easier.

That's what makes the Canucks struggles so much more glaring. They haven't even been able to attain what really isn't a difficult feat.

 

[andora]

Just getting to the playoffs and looking like you belong is a pretty small step to becoming a “contender”. You’re not even in the conversation if you can’t make the playoffs and look like you belong.

The bar is so low for this franchise that just making the playoffs and not being humiliated in round 1 is something so huge most of us can’t even picture it.

i agree, it is a step, it is a goal it is an expectation. calling it a small step, yes, you gotta start somewhere

Half of the league qualifies for the playoffs. It's not exactly a lofty goal.

Weak divisions make that even easier.

That's what makes the Canucks struggles so much more glaring. They haven't even been able to attain what really isn't a difficult feat.

talk about a downplayer... i love the last sentence

 

[Diogenes92]

talk about a downplayer... i love the last sentence

I'm a recovering Benning regime pessimist.

I can't help but be negative towards this franchise with everything that has happened the last decade.

 

[andora]

I'm a recovering Benning regime pessimist.

I can't help but be negative towards this franchise with everything that has happened the last decade.

Think of it as getting a new girlfriend or boyfriend.. but it can fail pretty quick if you bring your baggage with you

 

[Diogenes92]

Think of it as getting a new girlfriend or boyfriend.. but it can fail pretty quick if you bring your baggage with you

I didn't bring any past relationship baggage to my wife, but she has to deal with my Canucks baggage.

 

[andora]

I didn't bring any past relationship baggage to my wife, but she has to deal with my Canucks baggage.

oooh.. she must be patient

 

[Diogenes92]

oooh.. she must be patient

She is! And also understanding after she heard of Benning's atrocities.