Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
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Fair enough. But if you get offered another Hronek caliber player, do you say no?
Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition
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Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
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I would say no..this pick is going to be too high in a good draft to move..The player could conceivably contribute in a big way to our current core..It fits in the timeline.
Bleach Clean
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2006
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Every bit as successful as a full scale rebuild... when we can't define what it is, have not been able to outline a similar template, and cannot agree on the baseline strength of the team... How can you determine it one way or the other? After all, 'every bit as successful as X' means you can define and measure the success of one thing against the success of the other.
I had asked for a 2 year re-tool example. You provided the Penguins (among others). We isolated 2014 to 2016. In those years, the Penguins were at worst 6th in the NHL (2nd in the east). Their bar was the cup, and they won in 2016. Here, the bar is the playoffs. That's 16th overall from 24th overall, and 8th in the West from 11th. The latter is more doable, but it's the shortest distance for a serially bad team.
The crux of the premise is if it's a bet worth making? Not that it can be done, but is it likely to succeed if tried.
Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
Same boat here
Reality is reality, whether us fans like it or not we cannot change the owner’s mind, it’s his team not ours team. Fire Allvin and JR and you’ll get the same a new management group that drives the truck toward the same direction. Screaming on a forum for the past 8 years was enough for me.
All this talk of rebuilding...
Has anyone even considered how unfair that would be to the twins?
Has anyone even considered how unfair that would be to the twins?
MarkusNaslund19
Registered User
- Dec 28, 2005
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A funny thing, and in many ways this is just a meditation on the quirks of sports fandom in general, is how captivated we all seem by the first team we choose.
Like for all of the 'I'm objective, I think we should tank, I only follow analytics, facts and logic' etc etc. It's like, okay, well at any given time there are probably 5-10 teams in the league who are at some point along the road between a total rebuild or at the top of the league. Why don't you use your objectivity to go follow that team who is doing what you want a team to do?
But you can't, because you're a Canucks fan.
So it's funny to me when people who continue to rail on about doing a full rebuild will make fun of those who are willing to accept a retool as if we're abused spouses who are just accepting the bad behaviour of our team.
Like, we're saying we've adjusted to what it is and are willing to wait and see. You make a point of expressing how miserable you are about reality every single day. "I will never forgive this team for short circuiting the rebuild, etc". Okay, then why stay? And if you choose to stay, then how are we the ones who are accused of Stockholm Syndrome?
I picture two women talking and one says, 'you know, my husband isn't everything I was hoping for, but I can see he's trying and I'm open to see what he makes of himself". While the other one says, "Oh you poor ignorant fool. I f***ing hate my husband, he'll never do anything right. But I'm staying with him because [reasons]". Who then walks away smugly thinking their friend is a naive fool.
Like for all of the 'I'm objective, I think we should tank, I only follow analytics, facts and logic' etc etc. It's like, okay, well at any given time there are probably 5-10 teams in the league who are at some point along the road between a total rebuild or at the top of the league. Why don't you use your objectivity to go follow that team who is doing what you want a team to do?
But you can't, because you're a Canucks fan.
So it's funny to me when people who continue to rail on about doing a full rebuild will make fun of those who are willing to accept a retool as if we're abused spouses who are just accepting the bad behaviour of our team.
Like, we're saying we've adjusted to what it is and are willing to wait and see. You make a point of expressing how miserable you are about reality every single day. "I will never forgive this team for short circuiting the rebuild, etc". Okay, then why stay? And if you choose to stay, then how are we the ones who are accused of Stockholm Syndrome?
I picture two women talking and one says, 'you know, my husband isn't everything I was hoping for, but I can see he's trying and I'm open to see what he makes of himself". While the other one says, "Oh you poor ignorant fool. I f***ing hate my husband, he'll never do anything right. But I'm staying with him because [reasons]". Who then walks away smugly thinking their friend is a naive fool.
Quinntessential
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2013
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It takes all kinds, Markus. We all cope with the trauma of being a Canucks fan in our own ways.
Nucklehead Supreme
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2011
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It's more like "you know my husband keeps spending all of our money on stupid things, his budgeting makes no sense and he keeps telling me that the methods he's been using which have never worked will somehow work this time, we're now stuck with a 7 million dollar house that is actively breaking down and we can't get rid of it" while the other one says, "wow that sounds like the definition of insanity, people that blindly back anything there "husbands do" without any criticism sure are sheep". Who then walks away smugly knowing their friend is a naïve fool.
We stay because we are fans, because we have been fans for too long, this narrative that we should be loyal and not criticize this team is the definition of being a sheep.
You missed the part where she divorced that husband and got remarried but had to stay in the house cause reasons
I would measure success as winning the cup would you not? Do you have a different goal? Since1 team wins a cup a year, at best 1 in 32 for rebuild. As we look more teams will retool and win the cup. The pens as we just spoke of, the Avs, Lightning, Hawks last two cups LA's Bostons, all retools.
I provided a few examples but you want to look at one... for reasons. I also gave you the Canucks under Gillis, could give you the Canucks under Burke, The Hawks second two cups, Lightning, and so Avs, and so on. Why are you getting so focused on one?
Seems to me more Retools succeed than rebuilds. Where as how many rebuilds is buffalo on? or Detroit is trying to redo it's rebuild.
Canucks LB
My Favourite, Gone too soon, RIP Luc, We miss you
- Oct 12, 2008
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We brought in this management to make tough decisions, some we are going to like, some we are going to hate,
It did not look promising early on in the season, but after watching JT, right now, under the new coach, and more importantly, the fact that Bo Horvat got traded, and his production has basically halved, between JT and Bo, it looks more and more like they made the right decision, the hard decision, and at the end that’s exactly what we’re paying them for.
It’s not about sugarcoating rainbows anymore, I wanted to rebuild. Also, I understand once again, it’s never going to happen with this ownership, so let’s just embrace what we have, and hope for the best.
It did not look promising early on in the season, but after watching JT, right now, under the new coach, and more importantly, the fact that Bo Horvat got traded, and his production has basically halved, between JT and Bo, it looks more and more like they made the right decision, the hard decision, and at the end that’s exactly what we’re paying them for.
It’s not about sugarcoating rainbows anymore, I wanted to rebuild. Also, I understand once again, it’s never going to happen with this ownership, so let’s just embrace what we have, and hope for the best.
Frankie Blueberries
Dream Team
- Jan 27, 2016
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It’s really annoying when posters who have held unreasonable opinions that aged like milk then go on to smugly lecture others how to be real fans of this team. Get that shit out of here.
Quinntessential
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2013
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I know it's what most people think but personally I find it kind of ridiculous. This is how we ended up tossing the best GM the franchise has ever had (or at least top 2) and got Jim Benning. Success in my opinion is a team that regularly makes the playoffs and doesn't get immediately bounced. You hope for and want to aim to win the Cup, but with 32 teams in the league and only 1 winner that's just something that even if you do everything right just may never happen.
I mean look at how tight the playoffs have been in recent years. Going into the matchup only the 1/2 vs wildcard slots are going to have a clear favourite, pretty much every other match up is going to be a toss up.
I sort of agree. I think if we are strictly basing it on GM performance giving the team the best chance to win a cup should be way up there and that is Gillis. VS if we think critically about Benning and even Chiarelli, they didn't really do that are were lucky with what they already had.
However for a team to be considered a success here, it is the cup... no matter how stupid that is, when so much is based on flat out luck.
Yes, exactly. Dubas, for example, has done an excellent job in Toronto in my opinion even though they have had their playoff struggles. All you can hope for is a management team that can build a team that has sustained success and is a Stanley Cup contender each year in the playoffs. There is too much luck involved to ask for anything more.
MarkusNaslund19
Registered User
- Dec 28, 2005
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Opinions like, 'we should deal Hughes' in 2021? Or like, 'we should get rid of Petey' in the early part of last year? Or...
Oh, you mean anyone who can be discarded by calling them a 'bannign bro' because they didn't blindly agree that Judd Bracket fist fought Benning to get us Petey, or that we could have had Timo Meier for Ryan Miller based on an unsubstantiated blog post.
Life must be easier when you don't have to consider new information and can just decide not to listen to people based on past prejudices.
credulous
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
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this would be a more pleasant place if posters weren't so invested in never being wrong. it's okay to have bad takes as long as you're open to admitting so once they're proven bad
i thought pettersson was too mercurial and detached to ever be an elite nhl player. i appear to have been wrong about that. mea culpa
i thought pettersson was too mercurial and detached to ever be an elite nhl player. i appear to have been wrong about that. mea culpa
rypper
21-12-05 it's finally over.
- Dec 22, 2006
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What's the point of the internet if you can't lord over people who are wrong?
(This is a joke.)
- Aug 28, 2011
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I miss the old days where we settled disagreements like men.
Sir...I challenge you to a duel.
Peen
Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
- Oct 6, 2013
- 32,160
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i thought motte was a nothing player when we acquired him with 0 upside
i thought dipietro would overcome the size problems
i thought ben hutton would be a 2nd pair defenseman for ten years
Diogenes92
Registered User
The Aquilini's brought in this management group.
m9
m9
- Jan 23, 2010
- 25,107
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I actually feel pretty good about most of my thoughts about the roster in recent years..
..but I was good with firing Gillis to hire Benning, so I'm pretty sure that trumps it all.
..but I was good with firing Gillis to hire Benning, so I'm pretty sure that trumps it all.
Diogenes92
Registered User
Question for the optimistic bunch...
Does the Tochett coach bump success hold more merit than the larger sample size of the Boudreau bump success from last season (when many were heralding him as a saviour), and why?
A lot of what the players are saying now is eerily similar to what they were saying last year.
There is more positivity in the room. A new voice. A new approach to playing the game. Things are different now. Its easier to come to the rink.
When we think about just how similar the narrative was last season to what it is now, is there any reason to believe they will continue to play this way next year?
There's zero basis for that line of thinking.
Boudreau went from 'hero to zero' in less than a full season.
Does the Tochett coach bump success hold more merit than the larger sample size of the Boudreau bump success from last season (when many were heralding him as a saviour), and why?
A lot of what the players are saying now is eerily similar to what they were saying last year.
There is more positivity in the room. A new voice. A new approach to playing the game. Things are different now. Its easier to come to the rink.
When we think about just how similar the narrative was last season to what it is now, is there any reason to believe they will continue to play this way next year?
There's zero basis for that line of thinking.
Boudreau went from 'hero to zero' in less than a full season.
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