Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[ephmrl]

I’m on board with an attempted retool given the emergence of Pettersson and Hughes as legitimate superstar talents. They have a couple years to try to turn this around and if it doesn’t work out they’ll have to do a full tear down rebuild. It just doesn’t make sense not to attempt to capitalize on giving some of the most talented players to ever play for the Canucks a chance to try and open up a bit of a competitive window.

The problem is that their cap situation is so messed up from the previous regime, and their own self inflicted wounds (Boeser contract), that it’s going to be extremely difficult for them to create any sort of flexibility to build out the team. But they’ve stated what their plan is, and I don’t necessarily think it’s the wrong idea, so we’ll just have to watch and hope management is able to pull a rabbit out of their hat and give Pettersson and Hughes a legitimate roster here, and if not, it’ll be a full-on rebuild.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

1) Buyout OEL
2) Use a 1st to dump Boeser
3) Use picks to dump Myers (two 3rds)
4) Use more picks to dump Pearson (4th and 6th).

I have serious doubts we are going to buyout OEL this summer. The only buyout in franchise history that had more than a year left on their contract is Keith Ballard with 2 years. An OEL buyout this summer would be more expensive than every other buyout in team history combined. 19m is a lot of money to spend on a player to not play for you. Management just needs to tell Aqua that spending 19m for him to not play is better than spending 30m for him to play.

Boeser and Myers need to be gone though.

 

[credulous]

The acquisition of Hronek is likely the nail in the coffin for Myers as a Canuck..After they pay his bonus, do you think that a team will bite on him for free in the off season..or would we have to still retain to move him?

he has a 10 team ntc and will still cost 6m in cap space. how many of the handful of teams that will see him as an improvement on what they got will both not be on his ntc list and will have 6m in cap space?

i think myers is significantly harder to move than boeser or garland. at least those two have some positive value for some teams

 

[Phrasing]

Myers and Boeser have some utility and are the best hope to save cap space.

There’s still a glut of top 9 wingers next season with Kuzmenko, Beau, Garland, Mikheyev, Pearson, Kravtsov, Podkolzin, and Hoglander. Two need to be gone, and I hope one of them is Pearson.

 

[Vector]

Mikael Granlund just went for a 2nd.

Hard to imagine Boeser, who's a 25 year old top six forward can't get something with some retention.

The reason they couldn’t move him had less to do with his play and contract and more to do with timing. Moving a guy owed that much with term during the season is extremely unlikely but off-season is an entirely different beast. Or…at least it should be. Hopefully the NHL has good news on the future salary cap otherwise Canucks are, probably, completely f***ed.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Doubt that we need to pay asset to get rid of Boeser. I can see one of the teams that want to break out of their losing cycle going after Boeser.

Not sure why you would want to pay to dump Pearson when he might be LTIR next season.

Yup. People were panicking that Boeser wasn't traded at the deadline this year. Let's look at the UFA winger pool...

Legitimate top six wingers on here are maybe:

Domi, Killorn (33), Kane (34), Compher (think he's more a center), Bunting, Tarasenko, Tatar (32), Zucker (31), Barbshev.

If I had to guess, almost all these players will be seeking for at least $5M+ in their next contracts.

Boeser to me is a better option than nearly everyone here when considering age and contract... maybe Bunting/Domi are better players but their likely looking for 5/6 year deals.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

he has a 10 team ntc and will still cost 6m in cap space. how many of the handful of teams that will see him as an improvement on what they got will both not be on his ntc list and will have 6m in cap space?

i think myers is significantly harder to move than boeser or garland. at least those two have some positive value for some teams

Myers is a RHD...somebody will bite...We've all seen the insane rate of exchange for this position.

With the right usage, and paired with a responsible D man (in a 3rd pairing)..I think he can contribute.

 

[JohnHodgson]

The reason they couldn’t move him had less to do with his play and contract and more to do with timing. Moving a guy owed that much with term during the season is extremely unlikely but off-season is an entirely different beast. Or…at least it should be. Hopefully the NHL has good news on the future salary cap otherwise Canucks are, probably, completely f***ed.

They could have easily retained to move Boeser.

Lots of reports that they weren't unwilling or didn't really find that an attractive option.

If Canucks retain Boeser down to $4.5-5M, we should easily be able to get assets for him and still save $4-5M.

I think this is what Allvin referred to when he said he had options in the offseason. They are hoping more cap space opens up and a dry UFA market will give Boeser greater value.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Garland is the guy to stick around. He has a fan in Tocchet and is a good 5-on-5 producer so can play up and down the roster.

There’s lots to be done about OEL but it will hurt. If they are serious about making the playoffs then they’ll get rid of him.

Regarding Garland I guess we’ll see, I would prefer to clear that contract but maybe he stays.

In terms of OEL I just don’t see how our owner will stomach a 20M buyout. I don’t know if that’s the biggest in NHL history but it would have to be up there. Given their statement that it the cost required to move salary was too much for them (presumably taking about Boeser) I don’t see them trading him, and of course his NMC most likely makes that a non-starter in the first place. I mean I guess theoretically there are options but realistically don’t see anything changing on that front until 2024. 2025 is way more palatable but having to re-sign Hronek may force their hand early.

 

[Hodgy]

Re-read my post again (had to edit).

There's a true pathway to becoming a Stanley Cup contender.

The Canucks actually have a great core... they just don't have any good surrounding pieces. Myers and OEL combine for $13M and provide replacement level (or worse) contributions.

That basically means we're starting with a $13M cap deficit every year... it's a huge disadvantage. Then we have more wasted cap with guys that are washed like Poolman and Pearson.

I'd actually our core is probably equivalent or slightly better than Minny, Winnipeg, Seattle, and LA. Not saying we have better teams but our core nucleus is not far off from these teams.

Not to mention there's a huge shift in powerhouses for West/East... the West sucks right now so it's the perfect time to try and compete.

Depending on buyouts/trades for Myers/OEL, and LTIR solutions for Pearson and Poolman... there could be upwards of $18M cap space available to us next year. We can also trade our abundant wingers in Garland/Boeser (or both) to create cap room.

We just need to execute. So let's give them a chance to execute. They parlayed a UFA center having a career year into some solid pieces. They finally got a top 4 RD (after Benning being unable to for 8 years) that's 25, cost-controlled, and entering his prime. They shipped off what most people thought were liabilities in Lazar/Stillman for picks and prospects. I've been OK with what they've done so far.. (B/B+ grading), but they absolutely deserve a chance to execute on their vision.

They've only been here for a year and a half... it's going to take time to unravel from JB's mess.

My point has nothing to do with the merits or probability of them succeeding at this retool. My only point is setting the parameters for what would be a success or failure in my mind. So your point is not relevant to that.

I think you guys have some crazy idea of what sustainable means in your head that doesn’t map to any kind of reality.

Like look at the pens, they have been a playoff team/ contender at various times since like 07? They have like a core of like 4 and they gone through multiple cycles of retool and such. Nobody questions their sustainability because they know who the core is.
Look at the caps, same shit. Look at St. Louis, same shit. Look at Boston, same shit. Hell look at Tampa, same shit, they built their depth while being in the playoffs.

You guys have this weird ass idea that you have to get every single piece ready or else it’s not worth it and completely ignore that half the team that won the cup in the last 10+ years didn’t do that at all.

I’m not sure what your point is, or perhaps you are missing my point. If you disagree with my parameters for evaluating the success or failure of their proposed retool then why not set out what your parameters? And sure, any team has ups and downs, but when you look over a long 5-7 year period of whatever, success has to be perennial playoffs (it being acknowledged that the odd miss isn’t fatal) and ability to contend for the Stanley Cup. A good example would be the Leafs who I would consider are successful.

 

[arttk]

After the draft this year almost everyone will be on the same page again.

We are locked in now. The unusually deep 2023 draft was the last chance to add impact ELC's in time for the Petey/Hughes core and Miller's NMC kicks in.

The issue has always been not having nearly enough assets to dump everyone that needs dumping while replacing them, or not having enough ELC's to offset the bad cap.

The opportunity to replenish our assets and fix that is gone now, wasted on the last 1.5 years of no steps back no steps forward.

Like it or not, everyone should be much more in alignment moving forward next year.

There isn't any viable plan left now other than opportunism and sell futures to compete immediately, and hope that we hit enough home runs to not still be spinning our wheels in two years because that's when everything will fall apart if the no plan plan doesn't succeed.

This years FA market is barren. There are always teams that wants to improve. You think CBJ is going to want to go through the mud again next season? There are really only several teams that are on the tanking path. St. Louis sees this as a temporary reset, Florida as well.
Outside of Arizona, Anaheim, Chicago, San Jose and maybe Phi, I think every team is going to try to load up and with an empty FA market, they will have to look into trades.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I have serious doubts we are going to buyout OEL this summer. The only buyout in franchise history that had more than a year left on their contract is Keith Ballard with 2 years. An OEL buyout this summer would be more expensive than every other buyout in team history combined. 19m is a lot of money to spend on a player to not play for you. Management just needs to tell Aqua that spending 19m for him to not play is better than spending 30m for him to play.

Boeser and Myers need to be gone though.

To each their own but the OEL buyout is the most obvious move to me.

Spending $19M for nothing seems disastrous, but spending 30M to play a trash player and could literally be the difference between playoff revenue and no playoff revenue.

$19M is also going to be spread over like 8 years so it really won't hurt as much.

 

[arttk]

My point has nothing to do with the merits or probability of them succeeding at this retool. My only point is setting the parameters for what would be a success or failure in my mind. So your point is not relevant to that.


I’m not sure what your point is, or perhaps you are missing my point. If you disagree with my parameters for evaluating the success or failure of their proposed retool then why not set out what your parameters? And sure, any team has ups and downs, but when you look over a long 5-7 year period of whatever, success has to be perennial playoffs (it being acknowledged that the odd miss isn’t fatal) and ability to contend for the Stanley Cup. A good example would be the Leafs who I would consider are successful.

Yeah I think I misread your post.

 

[Jerry the great]

he has a 10 team ntc and will still cost 6m in cap space. how many of the handful of teams that will see him as an improvement on what they got will both not be on his ntc list and will have 6m in cap space?

i think myers is significantly harder to move than boeser or garland. at least those two have some positive value for some teams

circumventing the cap floor might be quite appealing for some teams..... particularly if they can potentially harvest assets for him at the TDL. There will absolutely be a market for Myers in the summer after his bonus has been paid.

 

[JohnHodgson]

My point has nothing to do with the merits or probability of them succeeding at this retool. My only point is setting the parameters for what would be a success or failure in my mind. So your point is not relevant to that.


I’m not sure what your point is, or perhaps you are missing my point. If you disagree with my parameters for evaluating the success or failure of their proposed retool then why not set out what your parameters? And sure, any team has ups and downs, but when you look over a long 5-7 year period of whatever, success has to be perennial playoffs (it being acknowledged that the odd miss isn’t fatal) and ability to contend for the Stanley Cup. A good example would be the Leafs who I would consider are successful.

I understand your point but we won't know whether this retool is a success in your given parameters (of being a Stanley Cup contending team) for another 5 years.

I think most of us are talking just about next year. If we get into the playoffs, it's going to align with the goals of this team building a contender. It's going to be considered a success, a win and a building block moving forward. You have to be a perennial playoff contender and eventually take the next steps to be a Cup contender. This stuff f doesn't happen overnight.

People always say the bubble year was just a mirage, but few point out that we actually lost Toffoli, Tanev and Markstrom (top six F, top 4 D, and a starting goalie) in favour of keeping Virtanen, acquiring Schimdt, and Holtby.
The bubble may have been a mirage but we also took major steps back through JB's transactions.

 

[credulous]

circumventing the cap floor might be quite appealing for some teams..... particularly if they can potentially harvest assets for him at the TDL. There will absolutely be a market for Myers in the summer after his bonus has been paid.

what team is under the cap floor for next year?

hint: it's anaheim and chicago and both will get to the floor just by reupping their rfas and filling out their rosters

also both those teams are almost certainly on myers list

 

[JohnHodgson]

Myers and Boeser have some utility and are the best hope to save cap space.

There’s still a glut of top 9 wingers next season with Kuzmenko, Beau, Garland, Mikheyev, Pearson, Kravtsov, Podkolzin, and Hoglander. Two need to be gone, and I hope one of them is Pearson.

Reports are Pearson needs another surgery? He might legit be a LTIR candidate for the rest of next year as well.

 

[Jerry the great]

To each their own but the OEL buyout is the most obvious move to me.

Spending $19M for nothing seems disastrous, but spending 30M to play a trash player and could literally be the difference between playoff revenue and no playoff revenue.

$19M is also going to be spread over like 8 years so it really won't hurt as much.

the dead money hit years 3 and 4 are a problem.

 

[Diamonddog01]

So you guys think FAQ will pay 5M for a Myers bonus just to trade him AND eat 20M on OEL?

Not to sound like a broken record but not happening imo. The team can still make additions (not many but a few) by moving Myers and Boeser.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I think teams will ask for picks to dump Myers, regardless of the contract situation.

I think Canucks should pivot to Plan B in that event. Instead of flat dumping Myers and his contract, we should leverage that attractive contract to get useful NHL roster players that fills our needs. So we might not necessarily be dumping cap space per se, but we will be re-allocating it to better uses.

A Myers for Henrique deal after the SB saves Anaheim about $5M in real cash and also they need some NHL dmen on that roster.

I think Canucks need to get rid of OEL (via buyout) moreso than Myers.

OEL is absolutely cooked and is coming off another injury. LTIR is obviously the most optimal thing for us but we can't guarantee this. A buyout actually makes the most sense. It'll hurt in years 3 and 4 with a penalty of 4.5Mish. But it's still better than OEL playing at that age at $7M. $2M for the next little while after that is not really that bad.

You would think the cap would go up by then... so a 2M buyout should be considered negligible at that point. Plus... we are probably rebuilding by then if this retool doesn't work out.

That trade makes zero sense for Anaheim. Henrique probably their best two way forward and is on pace for just under 50 points per 82. I agree that Anaheim needs to improve their defence, but Tyler Myers is not an improvement.

 

[Jerry the great]

what team is under the cap floor for next year?

hint: it's anaheim and chicago and both will get to the floor just by reupping their rfas and filling out their rosters

also both those teams are almost certainly on myers list

Why are they "almost certainly" on Myers' list?

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

To each their own but the OEL buyout is the most obvious move to me.

Spending $19M for nothing seems disastrous, but spending 30M to play a trash player and could literally be the difference between playoff revenue and no playoff revenue.

$19M is also going to be spread over like 8 years so it really won't hurt as much.

I would buy out OEL this summer. I was just looking at it through our idiot owner’s eyes and pointing out we don’t have a history of buying out contracts that long or with that much money left.

 

[JohnHodgson]

This years FA market is barren. There are always teams that wants to improve. You think CBJ is going to want to go through the mud again next season? There are really only several teams that are on the tanking path. St. Louis sees this as a temporary reset, Florida as well.
Outside of Arizona, Anaheim, Chicago, San Jose and maybe Phi, I think every team is going to try to load up and with an empty FA market, they will have to look into trades.

I think Anaheim will try to get better.

Philly too.

Anaheim has too much cap space to sit on their bums and do nothing. Their second best player in Troy Terry is already 25 - not exactly a young buck anymore. Boeser makes a lot of sense for this team actually. Someone who's young enough to help be part of their competitive window in 3-4 years.

 

[credulous]

Why are they "almost certainly" on Myers' list?

myers doesn't want to leave vancouver. his list is going to be all bottom feeders and teams that would likely take a flyer on his last year

 

[JohnHodgson]

Why are they "almost certainly" on Myers' list?

LOL. Just because he said so.

Sometimes fans act like they're a GM or something...

The truth is, nobody knows unless you're closely connected to the situation. If Allvin says he has options to dump cap, we should at least give him some benefit of the doubt.

I would buy out OEL this summer. I was just looking at it through our idiot owner’s eyes and pointing out we don’t have a history of buying out contracts that long or with that much money left.

Well... OEL is also a historically bad contract for the Canucks. Who are the worst contracts in history?

OEL and Eriksson?