Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[Bubbles]

Building around EP and QH at this point should be subtracting negatives. I think they understand how poor some of the contracts on their team is. It's hard to say. Selling off should have started last year, through the summer, to now. The Sabres sold off Reinhart and Eichel and ristolainen and team morale is higher than ever. The names aren't as flashy but it's hard to argue against their results from having a leaner roster and locker room.

It took around a year for the Sabres to go from pain to gain and build total buy in. The time for pain was at the deadline to trade Miller for picks instead of picks for hronek. Pain until bedard is drafted by someone. Even then I think management can still execute Francesco's will. Trade Miller, draft twice in the 1st, be convinced this is gonna be the 2023 version of the Hughes and Petterson homeruns, trade Myers, keep Boeser, and sign a Dylan Strome or Trocheck type UFA center plus an UFA defenseman like Severson who may be worse than hronek yes but I think ownership would still be satisfied with the immediate gratification and convincing fans the team is competitive.

FA really has fallen in love with Miller is the Pegulas and Eichel. From the moment he tweeted to boast about how smart the Miller acquisition was and how wrong the haters were, it was game over. JR and PA should focus their combined life force on finding a deal to trade Miller away that FA will accept. They haven't been great but I believe they see it and they want to trade Miller but they can't until a right combination of conditions align to sooth ownership of the need for immediate replacement of how many added wins FA thinks Miller brings. I wouldn't bet money on it but I think there's a chance.

Also, I recall a poster on your board that I saw on the main boards a lot, erub ot mogilny, did he chance his username?

Trading away bad contracts is mostly wishful thinking. How many times over the years have I heard that Eriksson, Beagle, Ferland, Roussel will be traded...it never happened. (and I mean with term left, not that last year where they could have been flipped at the deadline)

The Miller "trade" was also wishful thinking. No one in the right mind would trade for someone with that extension. When teams sign a player to a contract, they are usually absolutely sure about that player. When has a player with that much term been traded? Never.

Miller should be included in this core. I'm really surprised how some posters have focused on Petey and Hughes being the core and not including Miller.

My board? I usually hang in the Prospects forum but I've been here for ages.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Re-read my post. I never said anyone would call it a fail the first time they made the playoffs.

Re-read my post again (had to edit).

There's a true pathway to becoming a Stanley Cup contender.

The Canucks actually have a great core... they just don't have any good surrounding pieces. Myers and OEL combine for $13M and provide replacement level (or worse) contributions.

That basically means we're starting with a $13M cap deficit every year... it's a huge disadvantage. Then we have more wasted cap with guys that are washed like Poolman and Pearson.

I'd actually our core is probably equivalent or slightly better than Minny, Winnipeg, Seattle, and LA. Not saying we have better teams but our core nucleus is not far off from these teams.

Not to mention there's a huge shift in powerhouses for West/East... the West sucks right now so it's the perfect time to try and compete.

Depending on buyouts/trades for Myers/OEL, and LTIR solutions for Pearson and Poolman... there could be upwards of $18M cap space available to us next year. We can also trade our abundant wingers in Garland/Boeser (or both) to create cap room.

We just need to execute. So let's give them a chance to execute. They parlayed a UFA center having a career year into some solid pieces. They finally got a top 4 RD (after Benning being unable to for 8 years) that's 25, cost-controlled, and entering his prime. They shipped off what most people thought were liabilities in Lazar/Stillman for picks and prospects. I've been OK with what they've done so far.. (B/B+ grading), but they absolutely deserve a chance to execute on their vision.

They've only been here for a year and a half... it's going to take time to unravel from JB's mess.

 

[4th line culture]

It’s crazy how much BS we need to scroll through on HF to see a level headed take.

If they completely flame out next year, Allvin/JR absolutely deserve to get fired.

Let’s wait and see the final roster heading next year before we start the old man yelling at clouds thing

Agreed, you should post less so we dont have to scroll as much

 

[JohnHodgson]

Agreed, you should post less so we dont have to scroll as much

I really don't get the concept of whining and be constantly negative about a sports team.

Like... if you don't like what they're doing, just go find another hobby? Go outside? Read a book? Go spend time with your family?

It's just hilarious how we have like 40-50% of HFCanucks that literally come into this forum and spends hours a day to cry and whine about their hockey team.

Most of y'all cry and whine about the team (and HATE AQ) and STILL watch and go to games (tell me how that makes sense).

I'm not gate keeping - you can do whatever you want... but it's just sad that y'all don't have anything better to do on your spare time except go on hockey message forums to whine and cry about your own team.

 

[arttk]

No, that’s not true. Those critical of the direction or trade don’t necessarily think they can’t make the playoffs over the next few years. I think most people realize they could if enough things break their way. The issue is whether this approach will build a sustainable playoff team that can compete for a Stanley cup. If it can’t, then it’s a failed approach. No one wants our 8-10 years of shit or whatever to amount to a team that makes the playoffs 2-3 times or whatever over a five year stretch but then fizzles out and never actually competes for the Stanley Cup. That’s a massive failure.

I think you guys have some crazy idea of what sustainable means in your head that doesn’t map to any kind of reality.

Like look at the pens, they have been a playoff team/ contender at various times since like 07? They have like a core of like 4 and they gone through multiple cycles of retool and such. Nobody questions their sustainability because they know who the core is.
Look at the caps, same shit. Look at St. Louis, same shit. Look at Boston, same shit. Hell look at Tampa, same shit, they built their depth while being in the playoffs.

You guys have this weird ass idea that you have to get every single piece ready or else it’s not worth it and completely ignore that half the team that won the cup in the last 10+ years didn’t do that at all.

 

[4th line culture]

I really don't get the concept of whining and be constantly negative about a sports team.

Like... if you don't like what they're doing, just go find another hobby? Go outside? Read a book? Go spend time with your family?

It's just hilarious how we have like 40-50% of HFCanucks that literally come into this forum and spends hours a day to cry and whine about their hockey team.

Most of y'all cry and whine about the team (and HATE AQ) and STILL watch and go to games (tell me how that makes sense).

I'm not gate keeping - you can do whatever you want... but it's just sad that y'all don't have anything better to do on your spare time except go on hockey message forums to whine and cry about your own team.

You are on here posting more than most. You spend most of the time whining about whining. Look in the mirror

 

[JohnHodgson]

I think the first thing is, a 4 year rebuild means Petey and Hughes will be playing for another team. Let’s just be clear about that. There is no such thing as we will take 4 years to rebuild and he is going to stick around, it’s not going to happen.

I don’t really agree with Mik and Kuz being overpaid, if you think they are overpaid then man you are really stingy.

I think a lot of the thinking I see from y’all is well they can’t possibly get this so we gotta rebuild. Well ummm no? Like yes they haven’t filled all the holes but they have so far added more wingers that are fast, defensive and can score. They just added a top4 D, we’ll see how that goes. They added in some younger piece with decent potential like Kravstov. They are already doing some stuff that people didn’t think they could do. There are still a lot of holes and we’ll see if they can fill them without sacrificing the future in this off-season.

If anything it seems like this group can actually pro scout and also not just identify players that can contribute, they are able to identify players that can play the style they want the team to play. Like they are actually team building, it’s not like Benning where he just grab players like Garland and look at the stat line and does duh player good. All the guys they’ve acquire actually fits.

Regarding winning a cup, you don’t really need like every player to be underpaid to win the cup. Just look at Washington, St. Louis, Pitts when they won their cup. I think we need to look at winning the cup via the lens of what St. Louis, Washington and even the pens did. They were perennial playoff teams and they were not contenders every single year. They have a strong base that gets them in the dance every year and then when they hit the right draft pick or the right extra piece comes along, they go all in and manages to get it done. If anything, that is what Tampa bay f***ing did. They didn’t build their depth over night, look at their draft history, they spent like 8 years building their depth while going to the playoffs almost every single year.

Bang on.

Kudos to you.

Tampa lost plenty of playoff series before actually winning their Cups. They didn't become Cup contenders overnight.

They got their core pieces in Stamkos, Kucherov, Hedman and Vasi and continued to build on that core. Look at all the losing before they actually won:

We need to actually be perennial playoff contenders before we can jump into being a Cup contender. That's traditionally how most Cup winners are built.

You are on here posting more than most. You spend most of the time whining about whining. Look in the mirror

Nah man.

I'm just trying to have a reasonable discussion here. Not too many folks open to that to be honest.

All good though. It's your prerogative to do whatever you want.

 

[JohnHodgson]

I think you guys have some crazy idea of what sustainable means in your head that doesn’t map to any kind of reality.

Like look at the pens, they have been a playoff team/ contender at various times since like 07? They have like a core of like 4 and they gone through multiple cycles of retool and such. Nobody questions their sustainability because they know who the core is.
Look at the caps, same shit. Look at St. Louis, same shit. Look at Boston, same shit. Hell look at Tampa, same shit, they built their depth while being in the playoffs.

You guys have this weird ass idea that you have to get every single piece ready or else it’s not worth it and completely ignore that half the team that won the cup in the last 10+ years didn’t do that at all.

Amen.

These guys want to blow it up and think we'll hit on every draft pick so that every player is going to be a star level player on ELCs so we can be the best team ever. The way of thinking here is very similar to EA sports GM mode.

The whole point of a rebuild is to collect draft picks and BUILD a core.

We already HAVE that core - whether people like it or not. There's literally no point in doing a full rebuild to find a core when we already have one - a good one I might add. We have a top 10 F, top 10 D, and a top 10 G on good contracts and entering their primes now.

If we're not going to build around them now, when they hell are we going to rebuild around them? Sure, let's draft Reinbacher and hope he's a great defeseman 4 years from now.

Our core nucleus of Petey, Hughes, Demko, Miller, Kuz, Hronek is NOT a bad core. In fact, it's a relatively young core that has potential to be even better in the next few years.

Three top line forwards (franchise C), two top 3 dmen (franchise D), and a franchise goalie. They only combine for something around $37M next year.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I’ve warmed up to the Hronek trade, but depends on what else they’re able to accomplish to fill out the rest of the roster. Given the ages of Pettersson/Hughes/Demko I understand the decision to try to make it work now I just hope that if it doesn’t work out that they actually do a proper rebuild at that time. Will be interesting to see what they’re able to accomplish the next few months. Shedding enough cap to actually make improvements isn’t going to be easy.

 

[sting101]

I really don't get the concept of whining and be constantly negative about a sports team.

Like... if you don't like what they're doing, just go find another hobby? Go outside? Read a book? Go spend time with your family?

It's just hilarious how we have like 40-50% of HFCanucks that literally come into this forum and spends hours a day to cry and whine about their hockey team.

Most of y'all cry and whine about the team (and HATE AQ) and STILL watch and go to games (tell me how that makes sense).

I'm not gate keeping - you can do whatever you want... but it's just sad that y'all don't have anything better to do on your spare time except go on hockey message forums to whine and cry about your own team.

yes i just had to talk a buddy down of the ledge after the Hronek trade and it was pretty funny but my words of wisdom were it's just entertainment. I can watch Netflix for 2hrs or watch a Canucks game.

What i like about the Canucks is it's in real time and unfolding in real life but at the end of the day if i hate the team, hate Aquilini the last thing i want to be doing is dragging my life down because of it or spewing vitriol to others for how they fan. And in social circles people will just laugh at you if you go off about a sports team. It has legit nothing to do with real life and most people get that and dont care. They treat games like going to a movie.

I love to speculate and follow the developments. I've detached myself from the idea that some Cup raising moment will do anything great for my life or that i really care that much for the players as cool as it is. I like hockey and it's fun to watch games like last night but this MUST WIN CUP or BE THE BEST is a little fleeting to say the least. Just enjoy the ride brothers if it's good keep on keepin on if it brings you anger and hate your as much of the problem. Look in the mirror

 

[JohnHodgson]

I’ve warmed up to the Hronek trade, but depends on what else they’re able to accomplish to fill out the rest of the roster. Given the ages of Pettersson/Hughes/Demko I understand the decision to try to make it work now I just hope that if it doesn’t work out that they actually do a proper rebuild at that time. Will be interesting to see what they’re able to accomplish the next few months.

That's fair.

My thinking has always been... ok let's try for 2-3 years to see if we can actually build something here, while we have some franchise pieces in Petey, Hughes and Demko.

If it doesn't work out in 2-3 years, we can just trade them all for a massive haul and start a real rebuild. The assets we'll get from those three pieces alone is going to be mouth frothing.

Petey and Hughes could command like 4-5 first rounders of value themselves.

Demko maybe 2 first rounders?

Then you have guys like Kuzmenko, Hronek, Garland, Boeser, Beau, Podz, Hog, etc.etc.

We can easily be the next "Chicago" or "Arizona" by trading off high-end talent for picks and prospects and tanking. Literally anyone can do that. I rather actually try and compete before heading down the easy path.

Also most of Vancouver are bandwagon fans... are you guys truly going to support a rebuild that COULD take up to ten years?

 

[JohnHodgson]

yes i just had to talk a buddy down of the ledge after the Hronek trade and it was pretty funny but my words of wisdom were it's just entertainment. I can watch Netflix for 2hrs or watch a Canucks game.

What i like about the Canucks is it's in real time and unfolding in real life but at the end of the day if i hate the team, hate Aquilini the last thing i want to be doing is dragging my life down because of it or spewing vitriol to others for how they fan. And in social circles people will just laugh at you if you go off about a sports team. It has legit nothing to do with real life and most people get that and dont care. They treat games like going to a movie.

I love to speculate and follow the developments. I've detached myself from the idea that some Cup raising moment will do anything great for my life or that i really care that much for the players as cool as it is. I like hockey and it's fun to watch games like last night but this MUST WIN CUP or BE THE BEST is a little fleeting to say the least. Just enjoy the ride brothers if it's good keep on keepin on if it brings you anger and hate your as much of the problem. Look in the mirror

Preach.

This comment needs to be pinned somewhere. Especially if we are going to do a full blown rebuild.

 

[Vector]

I’ve warmed up to the Hronek trade, but depends on what else they’re able to accomplish to fill out the rest of the roster. Given the ages of Pettersson/Hughes/Demko I understand the decision to try to make it work now I just hope that if it doesn’t work out that they actually do a proper rebuild at that time. Will be interesting to see what they’re able to accomplish the next few months. Shedding enough cap to actually make improvements isn’t going to be easy.

Removing Boeser, Myers, and OEL has got to be priority number one. Just clearing their roster spots would open possibilities. No idea how to accomplish that, though. I can see Boeser and Myers being moved at the draft and around free agency but OEL is stuck on the team unless he’s bought out or LTIRed. Even if he’s LTIRed, I doubt he accepts a trade to the Coyotes, as everyone else is doing.

If they do accomplish those things, then you’re really just looking at a left-side defender to anchor the second pairing and a legitimate third-line centre. Breaking it down makes it seem like something that can be easily accomplished but the team is so thin and so bloated it’s a monumental task.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Removing Boeser, Myers, and OEL has got to be priority number one. Just clearing their roster spots would open possibilities. No idea how to accomplish that, though. I can see Boeser and Myers being moved at the draft and around free agency but OEL is stuck on the team unless he’s bought out or LTIRed. Even if he’s LTIRed, I doubt he accepts a trade to the Coyotes, as everyone else is doing.

If they do accomplish those things, then you’re really just looking at a left-side defender to anchor the second pairing and a legitimate third-line centre. Breaking it down makes it seem like something that can be easily accomplished but the team is so thin and so bloated it’s a monumental task.

I wonder if a Myers for Henrique swap with Anaheim makes any sense... similar contract status'. Would be a hard pill to swallow for FA to pay a huge signing bonus and then pay Henrique on top of that.

Anaheim has literally no defenseman for next year outside of Fowler and Drysdale, but they have a ton of forwards.

No cap savings really on either side, but we address a huge need at 3C and give up the chaos giraffe.

I think these type of trades could make sense to address a 3C hole.

I'm most concerned about acquiring a defenseman... need some defensive defenseman on relatively cheap contracts for this whole thing to happen. Marcus Pettersson could be an option but not sure if Pittsburgh would part ways.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Removing Boeser, Myers, and OEL has got to be priority number one. Just clearing their roster spots would open possibilities. No idea how to accomplish that, though. I can see Boeser and Myers being moved at the draft and around free agency but OEL is stuck on the team unless he’s bought out or LTIRed. Even if he’s LTIRed, I doubt he accepts a trade to the Coyotes, as everyone else is doing.

If they do accomplish those things, then you’re really just looking at a left-side defender to anchor the second pairing and a legitimate third-line centre. Breaking it down makes it seem like something that can be easily accomplished but the team is so thin and so bloated it’s a monumental task.

1) Buyout OEL
2) Use a 1st to dump Boeser
3) Use picks to dump Myers (two 3rds)
4) Use more picks to dump Pearson (4th and 6th).

 

[Peter Griffin]

Removing Boeser, Myers, and OEL has got to be priority number one. Just clearing their roster spots would open possibilities. No idea how to accomplish that, though. I can see Boeser and Myers being moved at the draft and around free agency but OEL is stuck on the team unless he’s bought out or LTIRed. Even if he’s LTIRed, I doubt he accepts a trade to the Coyotes, as everyone else is doing.

If they do accomplish those things, then you’re really just looking at a left-side defender to anchor the second pairing and a legitimate third-line centre. Breaking it down makes it seem like something that can be easily accomplished but the team is so thin and so bloated it’s a monumental task.

Yea a lack of capspace and lack of actual tradeable assets is this team’s biggest issue right now. If they can retain on Boeser and dump him, they absolutely should. I get the feeling though that Allvin is a bit hesitant to “lose” a trade, especially for a guy they committed to. Or maybe more likely FAQ is penny pinching.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Removing Boeser, Myers, and OEL has got to be priority number one. Just clearing their roster spots would open possibilities. No idea how to accomplish that, though. I can see Boeser and Myers being moved at the draft and around free agency but OEL is stuck on the team unless he’s bought out or LTIRed. Even if he’s LTIRed, I doubt he accepts a trade to the Coyotes, as everyone else is doing.

If they do accomplish those things, then you’re really just looking at a left-side defender to anchor the second pairing and a legitimate third-line centre. Breaking it down makes it seem like something that can be easily accomplished but the team is so thin and so bloated it’s a monumental task.

Nothing to be done about OEL imo apart from waiting for 2 years. I think after Myers’ signing bonus and with retention he’s movable. Boeser is a guy they may have to buy out. The one interesting move is whether they can move out Garland without retention…doubtful from what I’ve seen so far.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I wonder if a Myers for Henrique swap with Anaheim makes any sense... similar contract status'. Would be a hard pill to swallow for FA to pay a huge signing bonus and then pay Henrique on top of that.

Anaheim has literally no defenseman for next year outside of Fowler and Drysdale, but they have a ton of forwards.

No cap savings really on either side, but we address a huge need at 3C and give up the chaos giraffe.

I think these type of trades could make sense to address a 3C hole.

I'm most concerned about acquiring a defenseman... need some defensive defenseman on relatively cheap contracts for this whole thing to happen. Marcus Pettersson could be an option but not sure if Pittsburgh would part ways.

The acquisition of Hronek is likely the nail in the coffin for Myers as a Canuck..After they pay his bonus, do you think that a team will bite on him for free in the off season..or would we have to still retain to move him?

 

[JohnHodgson]

1) Buyout OEL
2) Use a 1st to dump Boeser
3) Use picks to dump Myers (two 3rds)
4) Use more picks to dump Pearson (4th and 6th).

I don't think we need a 1st to dump Boeser. Granlund just went for a 2nd - a worst player with similar contract got traded for no retention and actually got assets.

Just need to retain down to $4.5-5M and we should be able to get assets.

That still saves us a bunch of cap, even if not optimal.

Don't think we'll need picks to dump Myers if we trade him after signing bonus. Contract is going to be very attractive to bottom feeders.

Pearson's probably going to be LTIR but let's see.

 

[JohnHodgson]

The acquisition of Hronek is likely the nail in the coffin for Myers as a Canuck..After they pay his bonus, do you think that a team will bite on him for free in the off season..or would we have to still retain to move him?

I think teams will ask for picks to dump Myers, regardless of the contract situation.

I think Canucks should pivot to Plan B in that event. Instead of flat dumping Myers and his contract, we should leverage that attractive contract to get useful NHL roster players that fills our needs. So we might not necessarily be dumping cap space per se, but we will be re-allocating it to better uses.

A Myers for Henrique deal after the SB saves Anaheim about $5M in real cash and also they need some NHL dmen on that roster.

I think Canucks need to get rid of OEL (via buyout) moreso than Myers.

OEL is absolutely cooked and is coming off another injury. LTIR is obviously the most optimal thing for us but we can't guarantee this. A buyout actually makes the most sense. It'll hurt in years 3 and 4 with a penalty of 4.5Mish. But it's still better than OEL playing at that age at $7M. $2M for the next little while after that is not really that bad.

You would think the cap would go up by then... so a 2M buyout should be considered negligible at that point. Plus... we are probably rebuilding by then if this retool doesn't work out.

 

[mriswith]

After the draft this year almost everyone will be on the same page again.

We are locked in now. The unusually deep 2023 draft was the last chance to add impact ELC's in time for the Petey/Hughes core and Miller's NMC kicks in.

The issue has always been not having nearly enough assets to dump everyone that needs dumping while replacing them, or not having enough ELC's to offset the bad cap.

The opportunity to replenish our assets and fix that is gone now, wasted on the last 1.5 years of no steps back no steps forward.

Like it or not, everyone should be much more in alignment moving forward next year.

There isn't any viable plan left now other than opportunism and sell futures to compete immediately, and hope that we hit enough home runs to not still be spinning our wheels in two years because that's when everything will fall apart if the no plan plan doesn't succeed.

 

[arttk]

1) Buyout OEL
2) Use a 1st to dump Boeser
3) Use picks to dump Myers (two 3rds)
4) Use more picks to dump Pearson (4th and 6th).

Doubt that we need to pay asset to get rid of Boeser. I can see one of the teams that want to break out of their losing cycle going after Boeser.

Not sure why you would want to pay to dump Pearson when he might be LTIR next season.

 

[Vector]

Yea a lack of capspace and lack of actual tradeable assets is this team’s biggest issue right now. If they can retain on Boeser and dump him, they absolutely should. I get the feeling though that Allvin is a bit hesitant to “lose” a trade, especially for a guy they committed to. Or maybe more likely FAQ is penny pinching.

I think at the draft or around free agency Boeser will be traded for something of value. Some team is going to decide that 6m for Boeser is better value than whatever they can attract in free agency.

 

[JohnHodgson]

After the draft this year almost everyone will be on the same page again.

We are locked in now. The unusually deep 2023 draft was the last chance to add impact ELC's in time for the Petey/Hughes core and Miller's NMC kicks in.

The issue has always been not having nearly enough assets to dump everyone that needs dumping while replacing them, or not having enough ELC's to offset the bad cap.

The opportunity to replenish our assets and fix that is gone now, wasted on the last 1.5 years of no steps back no steps forward.

Like it or not, everyone should be much more in alignment moving forward next year.

There isn't any viable plan left now other than opportunism and sell futures to compete immediately, and hope that we hit enough home runs to not still be spinning our wheels in two years because that's when everything will fall apart if the no plan plan doesn't succeed.

That's fair.

I think the fans are overlooking the pro scouting that JR/Allvin have done so far.

In only a span of a year, they got (or re-signed) PDG, Joshua, Aman, Johansson, Kravstov, Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Lazar, Studnicka, Bear, Hronek, Dries, Wolanin etc.

Only miss in there I think at this point is Studnicka. Even Lazar they managed to get a 4th round pick for him.

We still have a lot of young players coming in (or already on the roster) that could elevate their game to raise our ceiling: Hogs, Podz, Kravstov, Johansson, Aman, Joshua, Wolanin, PDG etc.

Not saying all these players are going to hit, but some of them will.

I think at the draft or around free agency Boeser will be traded for something of value. Some team is going to decide that 6m for Boeser is better value than whatever they can attract in free agency.

Mikael Granlund just went for a 2nd.

Hard to imagine Boeser, who's a 25 year old top six forward can't get something with some retention.

 

[Vector]

Nothing to be done about OEL imo apart from waiting for 2 years. I think after Myers’ signing bonus and with retention he’s movable. Boeser is a guy they may have to buy out. The one interesting move is whether they can move out Garland without retention…doubtful from what I’ve seen so far.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Garland is the guy to stick around. He has a fan in Tocchet and is a good 5-on-5 producer so can play up and down the roster.

There’s lots to be done about OEL but it will hurt. If they are serious about making the playoffs then they’ll get rid of him.