Management Discussion | You can’t handle the Rebuild!

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I’m just not buying that they’ll move out Boeser + Garland + Myers all within the next 6-7 months.

Pearson being bought and 1, maybe 2 of the above getting traded is the max salary shedding I see.

They also have to keep room for EP’s big raise in the future.
I'm not sure the plan is to even move both Boeser and Garland, one of the two is probably sufficient. One of those 2, Myers and a Pearson buyout could open up a considerable amount of space contingent on how much retention and/or salary is needed to take back in a potential deal.
 
i sometimes wonder too. our family lived in the states for over a decade before coming back not long after our kid was born. not just for the gun violence issue, but we always knew he wasn’t going to make it to kindergarten in that country.

but i wonder about these guys making millions upon millions of dollars. their kids will probably go to private schools and they will live in gated communities with ex military snipers or whatever working private security to keep out the so-called riffraff. even if that doesn’t necessarily make them safer, because people inside those walls or behind those gates are at least as likely to include a murderous sociopath, i bet it feels a hell of a lot safer.

No doubt it does (and is) seem safer in wealthier communities with police forces that exist to harass minorities and anyone that looks sketchy. But you're not at home all the time. There's no telling when a simple road rage incident is going to turn into a homicide.

This is also purely conjectural, but I feel like the states are an awful, awful place to raise a child. Every 15-35 year old I know that's been raised in the states has some kind of issues, whether real or not. Anxiety, depression, body image/anorexia/obesity... It is a rotten society.
 
I'm not sure the plan is to even move both Boeser and Garland, one of the two is probably sufficient. One of those 2, Myers and a Pearson buyout could open up a considerable amount of space contingent on how much retention and/or salary is needed to take back in a potential deal.
How much cap space really opens up assuming they sign Horvat and Kuzmenko especially when you also factor in EP’s extension kicking in the year after
 
As time goes by and no announcements of contract extensions lingers with 4 GM's this has to mean something more than business decisions.

Extensions that SHOULD be slam dunks have not been finalized from the team aspect.
Pettersson will have been offered multi millions, Kuzmenko, Schenn.

Does anyone actually believe talks are just starting now? That since July 1 the 4 GMs' have been just like us, fans watching but paid to watch? They haven't been talking to the media, nothing new has happened. Their job IS to negotiate extensions, make trades happen and communicate with the fanbase.

I would like to think that there is a mountain of work that has been accomplished that is just waiting for time limits to pass, cap to be accrued or players to improve their profiles.

I would like to think that of the 27 people in the front office, 13 in hockey ops, 6 in the coaches dept. or 18 in the scouting dept. some are talking/negotiating with agents, scouts or players the entire year not just a couple of months a season. That there are hockey/team decisions have been made.

Because if these delays are not management's ineptitude then it is the players that are not wanting to stay.

If you have read any of these contracts they are not physics tests, some barely require a lawyer because the NHL has set out the requirements so all they all really negotiating is the money, term and clauses if any.

IF the team has a plan then decisions will not be reliant on "one thing at a time".
The cap might delay some decisions but not the money being spent, that has already been spent. The owner's have always let the team have a blank cheque.

An example, IF Pettersson decides he wants out what does that change? The team would still need another Center and another star player.
What changes if Hughes demands a trade? The defence is crap with him and still has no depth.

IF those two did that stuff it would open up for huge trade returns as long as the management does not wait until the last minute. Last minute is a team pressure point if the player wants to be here, if not then it is the agent that has the power.

For a team that needs some good news an announcement of a Pettersson extension would be more than welcome if for no reason than to distract from the tanking talk for a news cycle or two, but silence.

Rutherford, Smyl, Allvin, Castonguay, Clancey, Granato, Johnson or even Tallon should be communicating at least once a week/bi weekly/monthly. Not just Rutherford who made it clear in his interview that Allvin is running the show.

These long term contracts are like using a payday loan outfit, they get into the trap of having to use them over and over again a great cost and mucho pain to get out of the cycle of using.

Every contract management signs also sets a standard for other players on the team. 8 mil for a 30 yr old 99 point player, so Kuzmanko should be worth that term and amount based on his is 3 years younger and a rookie but still almost a point per game player playing 3 to 4 minutes less than the 99 pt guy. 6.5 for Boeser, inherited but 4.95 mil for a RFA making .750 K the year before. These deals set a standard for the rest of the team regardless of team success because management didn't take into consideration team success when offering them.
 
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you can't force horvat or kuzmenko to the table and the only other ufas are schenn, burroughs and delia none of whom they have any urgency to resign. they're presumably talking to bear and hoglander's agents about extensions but those are rfas so there's no urgency there either
 
How much cap space really opens up assuming they sign Horvat and Kuzmenko especially when you also factor in EP’s extension kicking in the year after
I think MS covered all this a few pages back. Opening up capspace really shouldn't be a huge issue assuming they're open to buyouts, retention and moving some picks here and there. The issue will be a lack of assets(those picks needed to move contracts also come in handy acquiring players) to actually constructively build the team.
 
I think MS covered all this a few pages back. Opening up capspace really shouldn't be a huge issue assuming they're open to buyouts, retention and moving some picks here and there. The issue will be a lack of assets(those picks needed to move contracts also come in handy acquiring players) to actually constructively build the team.
Yeah, but like I said earlier his scenario is pretty idealist, I would be shocked if all of Boeser/Garland/Myers/Pearson are gone next year, let alone OEL.


So let's say it's just Pearson, Myers and one of Garland/Boeser, then factor in Bo and Kuz's raises and making sure there's enough cap space the following season for EP's raise, and how much money do you realistically have to pay with? And we're also assuming that no cap is taken back in these trades in this idealist scenario.

Just seems like a lot of things need to go right in these scenarios.
 
Oh definitely. It won't be easy and they'll have to be aggressive, something I'm not sure they're capable of.
To me the best chance of success long-term to is sell off now. If the main argument against that is "teams just don't do that!" then that's not a very strong argument, NHL front office's aren't exactly forward thinking.


And yes I know they won't do it, but that's the right thing to do.

They're going to half-ass it and do something in between what MS is suggesting and what a lot of us who want to rebuild are suggesting, and none of us will be happy about it.
 
I think MS covered all this a few pages back. Opening up capspace really shouldn't be a huge issue assuming they're open to buyouts, retention and moving some picks here and there. The issue will be a lack of assets(those picks needed to move contracts also come in handy acquiring players) to actually constructively build the team.
Copying @MS here, and it builds on your comment as well, but I can see how we can clear space with this team. But it does sound like we would need to trade picks to do so (in the case of guys like Garland, Myers and Pearson) and these wouldn't be insignificant picks or have future dead cap space tied up in buyouts, or trade Boeser for perhaps a late pick. But the result is a team that has cap space, with an OK core, with basically no prospects in the system, in need of filling a ton of spaces with good to very good players, and having future dead cap space. Perhaps we could sign one or two good UFAs (e.g., defensemen) to expensive contracts where they probably wouldn't significantly outperform their cap hits, but even then, we are assuming that these type of defensemen will even be available and willing to sign in Vancouver, and I think this assumption is very questionable. If not, we are looking at expending significant draft capital to acquire these players (if they are even available) - and this would be from our draft stock which would likely already be depleted in order to ship out a bad contract or two.

So, to me, the option isn't viable at this point as we are essentially going to need to do expend significant draft capital (both to move bad contracts and acquire good contracts), incur future dead cap space, and/or sign UFA's to contracts that will likely age poorly (and you can through Horvat in here), all in order to just go from a bad team to an average team? Like, the trade off is that we get to not be bad and can be average for a few years, but then we are going to be really terrible for several years because we expended a bunch of draft capital, signed UFAs to contracts that aged poorly and/or are carrying dead cap space from buyouts. It just doesn't seem like a great trade off.

I am fine with spending draft capital if we are going to be a competitive or top ten team, but in the above context it really doesn't make sense to me. But I also don't think Hughes, Miller (@8 by 7), Demko, Pettersson and perhaps Horvat @8 by 7) are some incredible core that can't be wasted or something.

As a note, I am talking about what I think we should do, not what I think our ownership wants management to do, or what management wants to do.
 
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It still amazes me how badly Benning destroyed the defense of this team.

He could've done nothing at it would've been better than it is now.

Letting Tanev, Edler, and Stecher walk while bringing in Myers, OEL, and Poolman has to be an all-time fail of a plan. 🤣

The only silver-lining is that the Myers-OEL pairing may possibly bring us Connor Bedard.
 
It still amazes me how badly Benning destroyed the defense of this team.

He could've done nothing at it would've been better than it is now.

Letting Tanev, Edler, and Stecher walk while bringing in Myers, OEL, and Poolman has to be an all-time fail of a plan. 🤣

The only silver-lining is that the Myers-OEL pairing may possibly bring us Connor Bedard.

Forsling is playing like a #1D in Florida and now seeing ice time over 26min a night. He's seeing higher minutes than Ekblad.

We had Ohlund mentor Edler, and would have been poetic had Edler been able to mentor Forsling.
 
I am allowing the possibility that resentment may form against a guy that bad and that rich.

nah - i think players generally don't care what others are making relative to their contributions. a guy like oel is probably seen as deserving of that contract because of his play from 5-6 years ago.

i sometimes wonder too. our family lived in the states for over a decade before coming back not long after our kid was born. not just for the gun violence issue, but we always knew he wasn’t going to make it to kindergarten in that country.

but i wonder about these guys making millions upon millions of dollars. their kids will probably go to private schools and they will live in gated communities with ex military snipers or whatever working private security to keep out the so-called riffraff. even if that doesn’t necessarily make them safer, because people inside those walls or behind those gates are at least as likely to include a murderous sociopath, i bet it feels a hell of a lot safer.

eh - i think for the average person, absolutely. but that's probably counteracted by weather to some degree. and a lot of the european guys end up going home for the summers anyways.
 
Forsling is playing like a #1D in Florida and now seeing ice time over 26min a night. He's seeing higher minutes than Ekblad.

We had Ohlund mentor Edler, and would have been poetic had Edler been able to mentor Forsling.
0 chance Forsling becomes as good as he is if he played here. Definitely could have been something, but this team f***ing blows at developing players. Becoming Coach Qs personal pet project was the best thing that happened to him.
 
It still amazes me how badly Benning destroyed the defense of this team.

He could've done nothing at it would've been better than it is now.

Letting Tanev, Edler, and Stecher walk while bringing in Myers, OEL, and Poolman has to be an all-time fail of a plan. 🤣

The only silver-lining is that the Myers-OEL pairing may possibly bring us Connor Bedard.
OEL. Myers
Hughes. Gudbranson
Poolman schenn
Clendenning

Bennings ideal Defence
 
OEL. Myers
Hughes. Gudbranson
Poolman schenn
Clendenning

Bennings ideal Defence

i fully expect that someday rumours will come out that benning wanted evan bouchard but went with weisbrod’s family connection because of their mutual allergy to meritocracy

he’s big, skates well, rips the puck, not as polished between the ears as the other guys available at that pick, just seems like such a benning guy
 
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i fully expect that someday rumours will come out that benning wanted evan bouchard but went with weisbrod’s family connection because of their mutual allergy to meritocracy

he’s big, skates well, rips the puck, not as polished between the ears as the other guys available at that pick, just seems like such a benning guy

Bouchard's issue has always been his skating and not his awareness. Not sure you're on the mark with this one.
 
Bouchard's issue has always been his skating and not his awareness. Not sure you're on the mark with this one.

i can't say i've followed him closely, but my understanding was that his issue is decision making, not skating. from my viewing, he's pretty good at jumping into the rush isn't he?

but i guess there's a distinction here between skates fast, which benning always fell for when it came in a big body, and skates well, which is more elusive.

fwiw the first thing that comes up when i google evan bouchard skating is "The biggest issue with Bouchard's skating isn't a mechanical fault, but rather his tendency to drift around the ice flat-footed."
 
On management;

I think it is possible that the Canucks will wait till after the allstar game and then replace Bruce with the hope of bump in play so they can sit on their hands and say one more year with this new coach. Making it 2 additional years of status quo.

It is all about doing nothing with excuses. But every story has been told already, but they don't know that.

Paper bags, jersey tossing and empty seats will need to be maintained to educate this management group.
 
Canucks now have a social media director.



aqualini said:
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^ never again
 
Tochett?

Really? What has he accomplished as a head coach?

Terrible idea PA and JR ….. but you 2 are incompetent morons
He preaches tough no quit hockey and takes no BS. Sounds like the exact kind of coach we need while the teams in the tank.
 
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