Management Discussion | You can’t handle the Rebuild!

[me2]

He has a NTC though, not a NMC. If the management team doesn’t see him as part of this team next year, then they should inform him he’ll be waived if he doesn’t except a trade. Time to play hardball.

Messy. It's rarely ever done and you need someone to claim him or is even more problematic than before you did it. If nobody claims him? You free up just $1m, still need a replacement, and the vultures are circling a desperate Canucks

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

... and since I know the first response will be 'they won't buy out OEL', here is the alternative.

1) Trade Myers as above.
2) Trade Boeser as above.
3) Buy out Pearson.
4) Use a pick to move Garland.

This clears a shade under $18 million in cap space and leaves us in basically the same situation, except we'd have to sign/trade for one less mid-level defender if we're continuing to pack around the corpse of OEL.

I think optically to the fanbase and morale wise in the room re: OEL being gone may be addition by subtraction.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I think optically to the fanbase and morale wise in the room re: OEL being gone may be addition by subtraction.

OEL isn’t liked in the locker room?

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

OEL isn’t liked in the locker room?

I am allowing the possibility that resentment may form against a guy that bad and that rich.

 

[Nucker101]

I’m just not buying that they’ll move out Boeser + Garland + Myers all within the next 6-7 months.

Pearson being bought and 1, maybe 2 of the above getting traded is the max salary shedding I see.

They also have to keep room for EP’s big raise in the future.

 

[gringo]

I’m just not buying that they’ll move out Boeser + Garland + Myers all within the next 6-7 months.

Pearson being bought and 1, maybe 2 of the above getting traded is the max salary shedding I see.

They also have to keep room for EP’s big raise in the future.

Need Myers, Bo and Boeser gone just to start cleaning the stale air of utter failure from the dressing room

 

[TruGr1t]

... and since I know the first response will be 'they won't buy out OEL', here is the alternative.

1) Trade Myers as above.
2) Trade Boeser as above.
3) Buy out Pearson.
4) Use a pick to move Garland.

This clears a shade under $18 million in cap space and leaves us in basically the same situation, except we'd have to sign/trade for one less mid-level defender if we're continuing to pack around the corpse of OEL.

This is somewhat realistic, though I still can't see them pulling off all of the above. Maybe 2 out of 4, or 3 out of 4, I guess.

Pearson's buy-out is basically guaranteed. Boeser and Myers will be really hard to move, I think. Both of them stink.

I believe someone will take a flyer for marginal value on Garland.

Likelihood of happening: 1) Pearson; 2) Garland; 3) Myers; 4) Boeser.

In terms of Kuzmenko, I don't know if I see a rationale from his side to take a bridge deal before seeing if he can get comparable money on the longer-term deal in free agency ($6M+ AAV). He's not young, and he'll be wanting to maximize his earnings over his next two contracts (a more tax-friendly jurisdiction will help here). I'm not sure if he cares about winning in the NHL, but there's also the fact he could look at the Canucks and basically determine they won't be competitive during the life of his NHL career.

 

[Breakers]

We moved a 2nd round pick for $1.2 million in cap savings.

Good luck explaining to this owner he is going to pay a 31 year old defenceman $20 million to go away.

 

[VintageBure]

Myers will be easier to move next year. OEL is unmovable. Boeser has value because I strongly believe he's good enough to be in a contenders top 6. Is he great defensively, is he the fastest skater? No, but he's a legitimate dual threat and can play multiple positions on the powerplay. Garland has little to no value with his current form/contract. Kuzmenko and Bo should have a ton of value (esp Bo) but if this current management can fumble a 100 point player who was making 5 million a year (we could have also retained) who plays in all situations, then they can fumble anything. I don't want him to be moved but if I see the canucks get a 1st + for Bo, I will run down robson street naked.

 

[canucksfan]

MS if you do manage the moves you've outlined and gotten rid of OEL and Myers. Who would you choose to replace them?

That’s the thing, how does the team acquire two top four defensemen? Few UFA options and the team doesn’t have many trade assets.

 

[EpochLink]

We moved a 2nd round pick for $1.2 million in cap savings.

Good luck explaining to this owner he is going to pay a 31 year old defenceman $20 million to go away.

Aquaman and finances don’t mix, ask Talia

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

That’s the thing, how does the team acquire two top four defensemen? Few UFA options and the team doesn’t have many trade assets.

I would lean heavily on my European scouts for some Euro pro bets. I’m n it saying it would work.

 

[rypper]

That’s the thing, how does the team acquire two top four defensemen? Few UFA options and the team doesn’t have many trade assets.

I don't know if they need to. I think when people think top 4 they think top 2.

They could easily get their hands on two more number 4 defensemen. Would you not say that Ethan Bear is a number 4? Kyle Burroughs didn't look out of place to start the season as a number 4. Neither guy cost anything.

Something that could have a huge impact is the next coach they bring in, they structure they play, defensive system etc. Right now it's willy nilly free for all. A defensive unit built around Hughes and 5 other "no names" with everyone buying in to a system looks a lot different the Hughes, OEL, Myers etc and nobody knowing what they're doing.

 

[Breakers]

JP Barry structured Myers contract specifically so he could stay in Vancouver as long as possible with the final bonus.
He wanted that full NTC, but obviously wouldn’t get it so the bonus extended the NTC to essentially 4 years knowing nobody would pay that shit.

That ex Newport guy showed the tricks of the trade in the contract.

He’ll tell Barry to find 10 teams teams this summer who he knows may have even the slightest interest and NIX those names on the Modified NTC as lists can be changed every season.

I mean what did JP say about Tyler Myers 3 weeks ago? It was along the lines of
""the moment vancouver signed him, they have been trying to trade him""

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

That’s the thing, how does the team acquire two top four defensemen? Few UFA options and the team doesn’t have many trade assets.

I don't think you are adding value per se to make those acquisitions. You are probably shipping out who most would assume are or actually are core assets to do so. Value-wise, it's likely a lateral move. Which I'm not strongly against.

 

[gringo]

Aquaman and finances don’t mix, ask Talia

Maybe she needs the super computer for all the extra accounting she’s done

 

[quat]

Is it possible to improve this team without some major changes? Yes. Given that complete lack of cohesion between the majority of the players, is sticking with this group a good idea? I don't think so. Is this management group capable of making the necessary moves? Given their decisions with Miller and Boeser, I don't think they are.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

It blows my mind that smart posters here still have not grasped the fact that NHL under a hard cap is at its core a complicated efficiency contest.

How much value are you able to mine from the cap space allowed and draft picks alotted to each and every team.

The Canucks currently are able to mine zero value over the cap. They are unable to ice value to the cap and they dont own their draft picks for the next few years.

To cheerfully wish for Horvat and Kuzmenko extensions and OEL buyouts that puts us deeper in to that hole is maddening to read.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

For the players like Pearson and Myers they will just retain if they have to instead of buyouts as retaining will probably save the exact same amount of money and keep the slate clean the following year. Boeser might have to have some money come back in a deal in order to move him as I doubt we retain for 2 years.

You need to sell to the highest bidders our pending UFA’s Horvat, Kuzmenko and Schenn and the players you buyout in the summer are Garland and Stillman if there is no market.

You circle back during free agency to our UFA’s because you have just as good a chance as any to resign them.

Miller is the wildcard here and if you can move him before his NTC kicks in you do it ASAP. Our attitude is toxic and he’s right at the front of it, you can tell.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

That’s the thing, how does the team acquire two top four defensemen? Few UFA options and the team doesn’t have many trade assets.

Top4 wont do.

1 top pairing guy and 1 (or 2 if the top pairing guy isnt bordeline elite) legit top 4s.

While resigning or replacing Horvat and extending Kuzmenko and EP40.

 

[LordBacon]

It blows my mind that smart posters here still have not grasped the fact that NHL under a hard cap is at its core a complicated efficiency contest.

How much value are you able to mine from the cap space allowed and draft picks alotted to each and every team.

The Canucks currently are able to mine zero value over the cap. They are unable to ice value to the cap and they dont own their draft picks for the next few years.

To cheerfully wish for Horvat and Kuzmenko extensions and OEL buyouts that puts us deeper in to that hole is maddening to read.

yOu DoNt TrAdE yOuR bEsT pLaYeRs FoR pIcKs ThAt DoEsNt PaN oUt 90% Of ThE tImE

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Re-signing Horvat would be one of the worst things this management could do. He's not worth the money he will be getting and he's shown he's a horrible captain. That would just be doubling down on the same group again.

Agree that if they extend him, this summer + that is one of the worst stretches of management we have seen.

But calling him a horrible captain isnt fair.

 

[jd22]

at this point, whether he stays or goes is going to come down to whether there are any/enough off ice reasons to be here. these are fairly young people, on average their life experiences are fairly limited, and i think that's how you get a lot of guys randomly staying way too long on teams with no future. they don't know what's out there and life in the gated suburbs of phoenix or raleigh or even like edmonton can be pretty sweet. you have good friends, the places you go treat you nice, you're all set with your hobbies and bigass house. sure, philadelphia or san jose or almost anywhere else can probably provide you with the same life amenities and sense of community, but there are always guys that don't want to rock the boat, or who convince themselves that what they have in their cities is special... and i guess in a sense they're right, because good relationships are special things, but they likely also can be replicated elsewhere.

how attached is petey to any of that stuff? i have no clue whatsoever but i think that's our only hope of keeping him

I do wonder, when it comes to Europeans, how the political and more pressingly gun violence situation in the States plays into their decision making.

I work in research in Europe at the moment and I speak to a fair number of scientists that get offers in the U.S. for decent pay, but almost to a man (or woman) they are hesitant about moving due to guns and politics in the States. That said, there is a world of difference between decent pay for a scientist and a hockey player.

 

[hookshott]

Agree that if they extend him, this summer + that is one of the worst stretches of management we have seen.

But calling him a horrible captain isnt fair.

Yes, why is Horvat a "horrible captain"? Despite the fact that I feel Captain's are highly overrated in hockey as opposed to other sports (who is the captain of the Whitecaps, Lions,etc.....and how important is it really?) would you rather have Miller as your captain.......as many in the past have suggested?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I do wonder, when it comes to Europeans, how the political and more pressingly gun violence situation in the States plays into their decision making.

I work in research in Europe at the moment and I speak to a fair number of scientists that get offers in the U.S. for decent pay, but almost to a man (or woman) they are hesitant about moving due to guns and politics in the States. That said, there is a world of difference between decent pay for a scientist and a hockey player.

i sometimes wonder too. our family lived in the states for over a decade before coming back not long after our kid was born. not just for the gun violence issue, but we always knew he wasn’t going to make it to kindergarten in that country.

but i wonder about these guys making millions upon millions of dollars. their kids will probably go to private schools and they will live in gated communities with ex military snipers or whatever working private security to keep out the so-called riffraff. even if that doesn’t necessarily make them safer, because people inside those walls or behind those gates are at least as likely to include a murderous sociopath, i bet it feels a hell of a lot safer.