Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose

[Mess]

Sheldon Keefe is a JOKE of a coach.

ONCE AGAIN Matthews-Marner can't do shit 5 on 5 and his only change is swap their wingers

The Leafs are built to be a PP power or score 5-4 or even 6-5 or 6-4 with the goalie out because they can have their 4 expensive forwards on the ice at the same time to generate offense.

Keefe's only coaching strategy is too shorten the bench play Matthews and Marner and JT and Nylander more taking even more TOI/g from the supporting cast while still expecting them to contribute.

 

[JL17]

Bertuzzi had a good game with Boston that bolstered his stats. He made a couple of boneheaded plays, too.

I was going to say that. If you watched the games he had some awful turnovers in his own end and few found the back of the net.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Miss Dubas yet?

Jesus Christ no.

Brad deserves at least half a decade, just like Kyle got.

 

[Clark4Ever]

The Leafs are built to be a PP power or score 5-4 or even 6-5 or 6-4 with the goalie out because they can have their 4 expensive forwards on the ice at the same time to generate offense.

Keefe's only coaching strategy is too shorten the bench play Matthews and Marner and JT and Nylander more taking even more TOI/g from the supporting cast while still expecting them to contribute.

Matthews and Marner are already at the top of the league in ice time. That's not a sustainable strategy if we want them to be effective in the playoffs.

 

[All Mod Cons]

The same outfit that hired and fired Hextall and Burke hired Dubas as Director of hockey ops. Being a Leafs fan you must know teams make dumb hires (Stellick, Brophy, Smith, JFJ, Shanny, Babs, Dubas, Keefe). Let's see how it plays out for the Pens.


To top it off, Sens got him for a song. So many missed opportunities for Dooby Doo. He always chose the wrong door.

Agreed. Imagine going the direction of McCabe and Lafferty and the rest of the gang instead of Chychrun. I don't think Kyle was even trying towards the end

 

[Gaberd2608]

The old GM signed Tavares, which ultimately destroyed this teams cap flexibility and resulted in us losing Hyman and Kadri

The old GM got bent over by RFAs which added to our cap problems

The old GM is 95% responsible for the current team, Tre has been here for how many months ? This is still mostly the team he inherited.

I don't think anyone is blaming Dubas for Reaves, Bertuzzi, Domi. Rather blaming him for losing guys like Hyman, Kadri and being unable to add proper depth pieces because he allocated like 50% of the cap to 4 players.

I think the Leafs GMs (I can't remember which one specifically at the time) had the option of signing Matthews, Marner, and Nylander but through their own stubbornness, they wanted to wait. In the season they waited, they all exploded, then Nylander started with his schtick, and then Dubas optically looked like he gave Matthews and Marner whatever they wanted.

Most teams with their stars at reasonable contracts because they signed them earlier. Given the draft position and pedigree of Matthews, Marner, and Nylander, I don't think the GM needed to be Nostrodomus to think they would each turn out to be pretty good players. I suspect they all would have signed 8 years at a fraction of the cost if they were signed sooner.

It is easy to say Tavares's signing destroyed the cap but he is one player who was paid a premium as an incentive to sign as a free agent. There was no justification to give the others 4-6 year deals at bloated numbers compared to any possible comparable in the league.

As for Hyman, I think that was just an inexperienced GM not seeing the value in a blue-collar type of player. In hindsight, of course they should have played ball with him.

I think trading Kadri made sense. He was the most expendable player to try and upgrade the defence. The issue is that Barrie was not a good fit.

 

[Gaberd2608]

The Leafs are built to be a PP power or score 5-4 or even 6-5 or 6-4 with the goalie out because they can have their 4 expensive forwards on the ice at the same time to generate offense.

Keefe's only coaching strategy is to shorten the bench play Matthews and Marner and JT and Nylander more taking even more TOI/g from the supporting cast while still expecting them to contribute.

Over/Under 25 games before Keefe is let go and Boucher takes over?

It was pretty obvious that there needed to be some change after last year. Changing the GM which may not even have been intentional was not going to cut it. If they were not going to change the players, then the coach seemed like the logical next step.

I don't have a problem with the players BT signed - Kleinberg, Bertuzzi, Domi, Reaves but I think a new coach is needed to properly integrate them and not try to shuffle deck chairs around the big 4.

 

[notbias]

To top it off, Sens got him for a song. So many missed opportunities for Dooby Doo. He always chose the wrong door.

Our current GM (as well as 28 other teams) also missed out on him.

The amazing GM that has 5 million in dead cap space traded for him.

It is almost like that GM was offering the best package and we have no clue who else offered anything.

 

[Zero1]

If this results in Keefe getting fired then I’m okay with the losses.

Hiring a former agent as a GM was a big mistake. I still can’t believe they got everything and a NMC. He’ll turn it around but I’m still on the trade Marner bandwagon.

 

[notbias]

Agreed. Imagine going the direction of McCabe and Lafferty and the rest of the gang instead of Chychrun. I don't think Kyle was even trying towards the end

What do you think the equivalent of 12th overall, and 2 higher seconds is to the Leafs?

2x 1st, 2x 2nd, 2x3rd maybe? Not even sure if this is the same. The difference between the 12th and 28th pick is fairly large...

We then also have to add some picks to increase the value of the 2nds we'd give.

 

[ACC1224]

We all know that appointing the GM on training wheels was a mistake but he's gone now and isn't at fault for that passionless display last night.

 

[Racer88]

Yes, they did, which is why they wanted to keep/acquire that good GM. Because actual hockey people evaluate GMs based on more than just the playoff outcome their team had with zero context.

You meant zero success not “zero context” right?

 

[-DeMo-]

The same outfit that hired and fired Hextall and Burke hired Dubas as Director of hockey ops. Being a Leafs fan you must know teams make dumb hires (Stellick, Brophy, Smith, JFJ, Shanny, Babs, Dubas, Keefe). Let's see how it plays out for the Pens.


To top it off, Sens got him for a song. So many missed opportunities for Dooby Doo. He always chose the wrong door.

have you seen Chrychrun's injury history? yes while playing he's a stud. I have no idea why a guy with his talent fell from 2nd overall projection to start his draft year to late teens come draft time with his size skating and offensive talent. he's a stud when he's playing but just wait till game 20 when he gets hurt and misses 3 months as per usual. out of 8 season's currently he's hit 60 games only twice in his career. he orobably couldn't handle a long playoff run without getting hurt,

 

[ToneDog]

If this results in Keefe getting fired then I’m okay with the losses.

Hiring a former agent as a GM was a big mistake. I still can’t believe they got everything and a NMC. He’ll turn it around but I’m still on the trade Marner bandwagon.

Shanny was going to rehire Dubas. No way they fire Keefe unless the team plays to get him fired like they did Babs.

 

[verdi]

Rielly had that open net and shanked it.

 

[thusk]

The Leafs are built to be a PP power or score 5-4 or even 6-5 or 6-4 with the goalie out because they can have their 4 expensive forwards on the ice at the same time to generate offense.

Keefe's only coaching strategy is too shorten the bench play Matthews and Marner and JT and Nylander more taking even more TOI/g from the supporting cast while still expecting them to contribute.

Do you want to know the number of high danger shot on net at even strenght allowed during last game? 0

Toronto outplayed florida at even strenght... the difference is Samsonov gave up 2 weak goal and leafs had to come back in a game he should not have to...

Outside of pp, sorry florida was not really dangerous

 

[egd27]

....and they still are.

"something something, Marleau, something something"

 

[Mess]

Matthews and Marner are already at the top of the league in ice time. That's not a sustainable strategy if we want them to be effective in the playoffs.

Agree 100%

However because of their overpaid salaries it also makes sense that the TEAM should try and extract maximum value out of those contracts by playing those players in all situations and getting max TOI/g out of them to get bang for their cap buck. Its a natural instinct that if you overpay then you will want to overuse to validate the cost.

However its a flawed long-term strategy to run these players into the ground, because its going to risk injury through overplaying players. When the playoffs begin there will be little left in the tank if you exhaust players simply to make the playoffs.

I'm in the camp that Nylander to 3rd line C and then build a "BALANCED" top 9 attack including balancing the ice-time and finding the right combination of 3 productive lines to address this flawed Cap strategy of toooo much money/cap in tooo few players all forwards is the only way through this current Cap Hell the Leafs find themselves in and won't be alleviated until JT contract ends in 2 years.

 

[-DeMo-]

Defence is not the problem, defence has not been a problem for 3 years. It's depth scoring and consistent goaltending. Sammy has been f***ing garbage so far, there's no sugar coating it. The defence has been good enough, another game vs Florida with 1 goal, every game in the series vs them was 2 or fewer goals, 0 even strength goals.

This team is absolutely nothing like the Boudreau caps. The Carlyle Leafs were like that caps team.

Our stars don't show up consistently, they'll either destroy the opposition and pad their stats with 3-4 point games, or they'll get completely shutdown. We need consistent scoring. Scoring is as high as it's ever been in the Matthews era, Florida was without 3 of their best players and all we can generate is 1 goal?

This team needs to show up on time, we've been saying this for 20432432 years, 4 straight games we give up the first goal. They need to show up consistnetly, not score 6 goals one game and just 1 goal in the next, consistent scoring 3-4 goals a game. Matthews can't be the only one carrying the offense, Marner needs to be better and so does Tavares. Our 3rd line needs to start contributing. If Knies/Minten can't produce, sorry but send them down for another year. We need a reliable 3C who can win faceoffs and chip in offensively.

The challenge has legitimately been depth scoring and consistent play from our top 6. The defence has been more than good enough to win, and it's been like this for 3 years. The guys need to start showing up on time and show up every game, this pick and choose when to compete shit isn't gonna cut it.

the main problem with depth scoring in my mind has been when we've signed players to cheaper deals or even this year when we signed Bertuzzi/Domi is there put on a line with our top players, that's the mistake. when signing guys like Bertuzzi/Domi it should have been done with the expectations that these guys will be making up our depth scoring on the third line.

Mathews and Marner are so good when playing well they don't need a quality third player someone like Jarnkrok Bunting Hyman before them all fit in well we're cheap. they don't need a Bertuzzi @ 5 million playing along side of them to produce at an Elite level.

this is the mistake, that money should have been spent on acquiring players to make a quality third line. that could still be Bertuzzi and Domi. but the problem is we just load up our best players on the top two lines when our core 4 are good enough on there own and don't really need top talent beside them.

 

[Mess]

Do you want to know the number of high danger shot on net at even strength allowed during last game? 0

Toronto outplayed Florida at even strength... the difference is Samsonov gave up 2 weak goal and leafs had to come back in a game he should not have to...

Outside of pp, sorry Florida was not really dangerous

Toronto required 2 X 6 on 5 (goalie out) goals to beat Montreal a bottom 5 team from last year, and lost to the last place Chicago team when 6 X 5 goalie out failed to tie the game and Leafs only scored a single goal against Florida that came on the PP.

After 4 games and a 2-2 record how many ES goals have the Leafs scored that didn't include AM, MM, WN and JT (1/2 their Salary Cap)?

Leafs are not being propelled by ES 5v5 play but rather Special teams PP time or man up for the most part, and only getting offense from the Core 4 and when the Core 4 don't contribute the odds of Leafs losing against anyone is high.

PS. Florida was missing 2 X Top pairing Dmen in Ekblad and Montour on LTIR and a core forward in Sam Bennett to injury and Leafs couldn't take advantage of that which was disappointing. This was a team missing 3 key players.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Game in 10: Five-on-five offense lacking in Maple Leafs' low-scoring loss to Panthers

The Maple Leafs couldn’t find enough offense to overcome a couple of late-first-period goals by the Florida Panthers, sending them to a 3-1 defeat in their first road game of the season. Your game in 10: 1. Prior to the game, Paul Maurice talked about the season series with Boston, Carolina...

mapleleafshotstove.com

Reporter: What is the feeling involved when going back to Florida to play the team that eliminated you? Is there a bit of extra juice even though it is a regular-season game?

Keefe: It is a regular-season game, so I don’t think much of that is at play — at least not for me. Everybody is individual in that sense.

"What’s so wrong with a little gamesmanship or getting the team a bit fired up for a rivalry game in the Panthers’ home opener? ... If the coach never shows a pulse in moments like this, it’s inevitably going to seep into the team’s mentality as a whole." (Alec Brownscombe)

You're playing against the team that humiliated you in the playoffs last year.

An embarassment emblazoned in fans minds by that picture. Which Keefe choose to downplay. Rather than use as inspiration to motivate his team to victory after such a pathetic loss against Chicago.

Stupidity is what happens when you compound mistakes.

Bringing Keefe back was stupid. Giving him a new contract was stupid. Giving him a raise with term was stupid.

The Leafs have one of the dumbest management groups in all sports.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Do you want to know the number of high danger shot on net at even strenght allowed during last game? 0

Toronto outplayed florida at even strenght... the difference is Samsonov gave up 2 weak goal and leafs had to come back in a game he should not have to...

Outside of pp, sorry florida was not really dangerous

I don’t doubt the stats.

But the eye tests, the vibe of the game as I watched was pretty much 2 evenly matched teams. But…

Florida consistently had a planned proper puck movement into the NZ and into the OZ.
Leading to better quality shots on net.


Toronto was kept to the outside. Forced to rush a bit more. Same ol story since 2016 it seems.

Why the hell is Keefe our coach still. Lines are always ran the same way. We look very disorganized whenever Matthews isn’t scoring on Godmode.

Game 10 I hope Keefe proves me wrong.

 

[MarnerElite]

Worse than last years team

Possibly but coach can make a difference here because lines are definitely off...Knies for example plays well with more structure but for some reason he's been mostly chasing opposing players and playing a very grinding game...Why do that to a guy who can easily beat Bertuzzi for that top line job?(and offensively i think he has more to give on top of his puck retrieval ability).

 

[Suntouchable13]

Do you want to know the number of high danger shot on net at even strenght allowed during last game? 0

Toronto outplayed florida at even strenght... the difference is Samsonov gave up 2 weak goal and leafs had to come back in a game he should not have to...

Outside of pp, sorry florida was not really dangerous

Why are you on Samsonov? Why do you expect him to pitch a shutout? He has 40 million dollar forwards upfront who are paid to score. The 3 million dollar goalie allowed 2 soft-ish goals, while the 40 million dollar forwards mustered one goal.

 

[AvroArrow]

Why are you on Samsonov? Why do you expect him to pitch a shutout? He has 40 million dollar forwards upfront who are paid to score. The 3 million dollar goalie allowed 2 soft-ish goals, while the 40 million dollar forwards mustered one goal.

When your team only scores 1 goal, you cannot blame the goalie. I don't care if Florida scored 5,6,10 goals, 1 goal is not gonna cut it, not when you're getting paid that much.