Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose

[Fogelhund]

I know Reaves wont score a bunch but his presence on the ice is obvious. It should create a little more space for the skill guys. A guy like Reaves has been what this team has been missing. The lack of heart was obvious vs the Pathers last year, need more this year if they hope to go deep.

You watched that game last night.. and concluded his presence on the ice was obvious, that he was a deterrent and calmed things down? Really? LIke Really?

 

[notbias]

Since Keefe didn’t seem to trust Minten last night (8:47 in icetime), he’s probably heading back to Kamloops soon. Think they’ll try Willie back at centre again? I kind of want to see it. Think it will help spread out the ice times more efficiently.

I would love to see it, Nylander can drive a line by himself.

Domi - Matthews - Marner
Knies - Tavares - Bertuzzi
Robertson - Nylander - Jarnkrok
Gregor - Kampf - Holmberg

Get Domi going on that line, plus he is a good passer and that is our best shooter.
Second line would grind some teams down, that is a hard forechecking line who can cycle.
Third line could do some real damage offensively, questionable defensively, but Jarnkrok will help.
Fourth line is defensively responsible and has some offensive upside.

I know that 4th line won't happen, and in that case maybe Holmberg instead of Robertson, adds some more defensive help to the 3rd line and doesn't remove much offense, also gives you another C option.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think Jarnkrok is a waste on that line. It should be either Knies or Bertuzzi.

Or if Keefe wants to get a little adventurous, pair up Matthews-Nylander and Tavares-Marner again.

Domi has been underwhelming. Bertuzzi as well, but he's less than 100%, so I want to see him be healthy before making judgement.

Knies just needs a jolt to get his confidence. Minten on the other hand looks completely out of place. Would not surprise me if he is sent down in short order to continue his development.

Incidentally, Jarnkrok/Matthews/Marner had the best advanced stats of any of the lines last night.

 

[nuck]

I'm more disappointed in the lack of intensity they showed than the result.
Giordano stepped up but that was about it.

That softee stench that Dubas brought in seems to be tough to remove.

Nah I think its mostly the coach that KD brought in is hard to remove. I don't know that he prepares them very well and he isn't quick to make adjustments when things aren't working. They should be forcing other clubs to play Leaf hockey most nights instead of just waiting for Leaf skill to come through. Still better than the Chicago game.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Do you think marner wants to play on any other line?

Yes, uh-huh

I hear what you're saying but yeah, it does seem he determines that.

Gawd...I hope Marner is not the one who dictates with who and where he plays.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Nah I think its mostly the coach that KD brought in is hard to remove. I don't know that he prepares them very well and he isn't quick to make adjustments when things aren't working. They should be forcing other clubs to play Leaf hockey most nights instead of just waiting for Leaf skill to come through. Still better than the Chicago game.

Not going to lie -- I've been no fan of Keefe, but I was looking forward to seeing him be his own coach so to speak away from a Dubas-overlooked team. At times on the bench this season, he kind of looks relieved.

However, the team looks and approaches things no differently so far (ie. playing down to their opponent). I'm willing to give Keefe a bit more time, but the leash gets tighter each passing game. If he's not the guy to bring out the best of this team, a team more than capable of being a serious Cup contender, then Treliving has to find someone who can.

 

[notbias]

Gawd...I hope Marner is not the one who dictates with who and where he plays.

He doesn't.

Marner/Matthews is one of the best duos in the NHL, people just start making this stuff up to make the coach look weak for some reason.

 

[leafan11]

Domi and reaves both look like they’re washed . Domi’s skating is concerning especially when he tries getting back into zone.

 

[Notsince67]

Sheldon Keefe is a JOKE of a coach.

ONCE AGAIN Matthews-Marner can't do shit 5 on 5 and his only change is swap their wingers

I don't really understand anything about this post other than you pushing bad commentary. Matthew and Marner were among the best forwards 5x5 in the game. Their scoring chances were plentiful. Bob just played well. You might want to question Nylander and Tavares' offensive effort first before you complain about the others.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Leafs have so many offensive weapons and yet so often they can't score when they need it most. I don't get it.

GoaLiEd.

 

[Apex Predator]

Since Keefe didn’t seem to trust Minten last night (8:47 in icetime), he’s probably heading back to Kamloops soon. Think they’ll try Willie back at centre again? I kind of want to see it. Think it will help spread out the ice times more efficiently.

If they’re not going to try Willy them give Holmberg a stretch of games on third line.

 

[Notsince67]

Mmmm not sure we watched the same game, im dont know how many time he lost possession of the puck on 1v1 battle... It was not a great game by nylander by far his worst....

Again 2 weak goal by samsonov late in 1st, so result leafs was running from behind all game. Rest of the game he was good especially in penalty kill but thats exactly what i hate from samsonov, weak goal at wrost time possible and put his team under pressure... unstead of coming back after 1 at 0-0 they was trailling 2-0 and all momemtum goes on florida side.

it was exactly whats happened in playoff...

Willy was a shell of himself compared to the other games.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I actually liked the Reaves signing, I understand the idea behind it, but when he is not hitting/fighting/yapping he is useless! What happened last night? Why wasn’t he more engaged? Tkachuk was running around not scared one iota of Reaves.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The forwards are also overrated. Why is it that every game, The opposing teams goalie has a career Vezina trophy winning night? Maybe it’s time to start looking at those forwards, and realizing that Toronto fans have overrated them. You never see a Samsonov stand on his head and steal a game against a good team, But night in night out opposing teams do this to the leafs. I don’t know, I think it’s time people start seeing this team for what it really is.

I've wondered many times - how many times do we have to be "out-goalied" in the playoffs before more people start to think that maybe it's not the goalies?

They "had good playoffs".
Domi put up points, as a negative player.. put him in a prime spot, he'll put up some points, be weak defensively, and not do much else for the game. That's just who he's been his whole career... so yes, he put up some points. He's not bringing physicality, he's never been that player, and that's what we need some of... we need some snot. He's barely a small booger.

Bertuzzi has a similar, though more productive profile. Will put up points, weaker defensively, and is often injured. Guess what.. injured again. Not the physicality and snot people wanted.

You can look on the first page of the praise Treliving thread... these were my comments on these two players in the summer.

D needs some work, but your comments about... "let's give it some time" applies just as well there. Overall, the D group actually played an ok game last night... much better than previously. McCabe and Liljegren played very well together. Even Gio and Klingberg were "acceptable". Rielly and Brodie didn't have their best game, but so far this year they've done very well. The group is still too soft... which was something I stated in the offseason as well.

Yes, we need some patience, but so far the new players, are playing just like they always have elsewhere.

All this is spot on IMO. It was a strange summer, it's like many people were so happy Dubas was gone - now we finally have a ream GM, OMG look at this guy he signed and that guy and we are so good now. People were so massively over-rating Domi and Bertuzzi it was hilarious, especially Domi and the bolded is putting it perfectly IMO.

Many of us have said that it's the same core, same coach so expecting a much different team is a pipe dream. My only hope is that Reaves helps bring about an attitude change but obviously that's hoping for a lot. But other than the pipe dream of Reaves single handedly changing the makeup of this group, I see no reason not to expect the same movie this season - we'll get going soon enough, people will start overreacting and planning the parade, we'll finish around 6th overall and then we'll lose in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs. Maybe it'll play out differently, you never know but this is the movie we've been watching for a number of years now, and considering it's the same director, and the same stars playing the main roles, not sure why anyone would expect anything different?

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

I honestly cannot stand Florida. I never liked Paul Maurice, even when he coached the Leafs.

 

[Nineteen67]

Not going to lie -- I've been no fan of Keefe, but I was looking forward to seeing him be his own coach so to speak away from a Dubas-overlooked team. At times on the bench this season, he kind of looks relieved.

However, the team looks and approaches things no differently so far (ie. playing down to their opponent). I'm willing to give Keefe a bit more time, but the leash gets tighter each passing game. If he's not the guy to bring out the best of this team, a team more than capable of being a serious Cup contender, then Treliving has to find someone who can.

They don’t play down to anybody, if anything, teams tend to play fast and hard against the Leafs and there’s not much they can do to counter it with the rosters they’ve had.

 

[Fogelhund]

I honestly cannot stand Florida. I never liked Paul Maurice, even when he coached the Leafs.

They aren't a great team, but they are a physical, hard team... and we don't match up very well against such play. When we are allowed to play our skill game, we are one of the best teams in the league. When we are forced to play a hard game, it falls apart.

 

[SprDaVE]

I actually liked the Reaves signing, I understand the idea behind it, but when he is not hitting/fighting/yapping he is useless! What happened last night? Why wasn’t he more engaged? Tkachuk was running around not scared one iota of Reaves.

These players don't deter jack shit. Tkachuk doesn't care about a player that can't skate or play more than 8 minutes. Even Corey Perry doesn't care. The idea and dream of it was never going to be something that happens in real life. Reaves isn't going to fight or throw monster hits every game, especially if he can't catch anyone with his terrible skating. It's been said so many times, but people keep burying their heads in the sand about it until they can't stand it anymore. It's different this time, for sure!

 

[ACC1224]

Nah I think its mostly the coach that KD brought in is hard to remove. I don't know that he prepares them very well and he isn't quick to make adjustments when things aren't working. They should be forcing other clubs to play Leaf hockey most nights instead of just waiting for Leaf skill to come through. Still better than the Chicago game.

No argument there, not a fan at all. He never should have been hired let alone survive this long.

Gawd...I hope Marner is not the one who dictates with who and where he plays.

He doesn't, pretty silly to think he does.

 

[francis246]

I think now, re-signing ROR would have been a good move. Leafs are really thin at C now, and Minten is not ready.

ROR didn’t want to be here, he was never an option to resign.

 

[ACC1224]

They aren't a great team, but they are a physical, hard team... and we don't match up very well against such play. When we are allowed to play our skill game, we are one of the best teams in the league. When we are forced to play a hard game, it falls apart.

This is a recording.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Keefe goes to the blender with the forward lines too quickly and too often. Give the guys a chance to settle in their roles. There's no stability in this lineup.

Kampf, Bertuzzi and Domi is not something any of us would have envisioned a few days ago.

 

[Kurtz]

Reaves is not there to deter a superstar Power forward like Tkachuk. He's there to deter a rat like Bennett.

 

[LeafGrief]

The early season skid will continue for a while until Marner has some choccy milk and starts playing well again. Then with our 2nd best player actually playing well, we'll probably start winning some games. Unfortunately, our goaltending is still completely unreliable and our defense is UGLY compared to previous years.

Our big 4 are still good enough to win us games, lots of games even. But our depth has eroded year after year, our defense keeps getting weaker and weaker, and we live off discount bin goalies. If this slide continues for too long, Keefe will get canned and then the season is really up in the air.

The unfortunate reality is that there's no choccy milk to be had in the playoffs, and this core has proven time and time again that they just don't know how to get it done. They couldn't get it done with youthful exuberance and actual defense (I miss you Jake Muzzin), they're not going to get it done with no depth and a defense that makes me miss Ron Hainsey. The writing is on the wall for this core and if they are reading it, this season could be a disaster. I'm sure we'll trade our 1st round picks at the deadline to put another coat of lipstick on the pig, but we need a retool more than we need to keep pretending that this core can go any higher.

This is the Leafs, they always get your hopes up before they crush you.

 

[notbias]

I actually liked the Reaves signing, I understand the idea behind it, but when he is not hitting/fighting/yapping he is useless! What happened last night? Why wasn’t he more engaged? Tkachuk was running around not scared one iota of Reaves.

Never in the modern NHL has an enforcer deterred players from running around and doing dumb things.

This isn't the 80s.

Domi will end up "protecting" the top players more than Reaves.

Reaves is not just going to grab Tkachuk and start feeding him punches, and Tkachuk is not going to be deterred by being talked to.

Signing Reaves was always a mistake and people will start to realize it more and more.

Kulikov hit Nylander from behind, and this big scary enforcer did nothing, not even a talking to.

Reaves is not there to deter a superstar Power forward like Tkachuk. He's there to deter a rat like Bennett.

So far, he has done none of that either.