Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose

[DragoGrizzly]

None of what you said is wrong. They will probably get 110+ points again (but it won’t be easy as previous years), but why do you think this movie will end differently in the spring? I don’t have a lot of hope that all of a sudden this is a different team. Same core, just another year with a shuffling of the deck in terms of the bottom 8 forwards. D is very suspect, so is the goaltending. So what is exactly different?

I completely understand the feeling of “not again” with this group. Will a core like this be able to win it all. Question that all the time. I hate that our stars seem to get paid more than other teams stars creating a competitive disadvantage. But nearly half the team is different than the one we started last year with. I continue to hope that the core will continue to grow and develop that “win at all costs” mentality. There is too much talent to not believe this team can’t get it done.

 

[Fogelhund]

Last season was about as predictable as you could get. The only thing I missed on was doing a rebuild after the playoffs. I still think that was Dubas’ goal, but he got overridden.

I think you are probably correct there, though maybe not a full rebuild... It doesn't really matter now though. I didn't really think the new pieces were the right pieces, and so far, I hate that I'm seeing what I thought we would.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think you are probably correct there, though maybe not a full rebuild... It doesn't really matter now though. I didn't really think the new pieces were the right pieces, and so far, I hate that I'm seeing what I thought we would.

Restructure is probably a better term than rebuild.

 

[ToneDog]

I think you are probably correct there, though maybe not a full rebuild... It doesn't really matter now though. I didn't really think the new pieces were the right pieces, and so far, I hate that I'm seeing what I thought we would.

Domi and Bert had good playoffs. I find it hard to believe they fell off a cliff over the summer. Let's give it some time before we deem them the wrong pieces. My concerns are with Gio, McCabe, Brodie, Klingberg and Lily. Now those are closer to the wrong pieces as a d group IMO.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The team is a mess. You have virtually nothing on the farm that can help this team today.

We literally have multiple Dubas-drafted prospects playing on the NHL team right now, and multiple others biting at their heels in the AHL. Not to mention a number of others that are looking good in their lower leagues.

I mean if you really believe it, compare it to the situation Dubas was in.

Sure.
Dubas inherited a mid-tier team. Treliving inherited a top tier team.
Dubas inherited a team where the top players either immediately required a contract or would require one within a year. Treliving inherited a team where he had 1-2 years to re-sign his top guys.
Dubas inherited a team where the top players had been mistreated by the previous regime and an abusive coach. Treliving inherited good player-team relationships.
Dubas inherited a team where those top re-signing increases would cost tens of millions more. Treliving inherited a team where the top re-signing increases would be covered by cap increases.
Dubas inherited a team through an unprecedented and unexpected cap stagnation. Treliving inherited a team through massive cap increases.
Dubas inherited a team with multiple cap anchors. Treliving inherited a team with zero cap anchors.
Dubas inherited a team with a depleted prospect pool and barely any ELCs. Treliving inherited a replenished prospect pool with multiple NHL-level and close to NHL-ready prospects on ELCs.

Both inherited some roster spots to fill and some cap space. Dubas signed one of the best free agents in the cap era, and was really good at finding cheap, efficient depth through his time here. Treliving signed just expensive secondary pieces that pretty much all look underwhelming so far.

I mean, we could keep going, but there's really no contest. Treliving was unquestionably handed a much better situation, and so far, he's just made it worse.
At least it's still early, and hopefully some of his additions can turn it around.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Domi and Bert had good playoffs. I find it hard to believe they fell off a cliff over the summer. Let's give it some time before we deem them the wrong pieces. My concerns are with Gio, McCabe, Brodie, Klingberg and Lily. Now those are closer to the wrong pieces as a d group IMO.

I think now, re-signing ROR would have been a good move. Leafs are really thin at C now, and Minten is not ready.

 

[Nineteen67]

Domi and Bert had good playoffs. I find it hard to believe they fell off a cliff over the summer. Let's give it some time before we deem them the wrong pieces. My concerns are with Gio, McCabe, Brodie, Klingberg and Lily. Now those are closer to the wrong pieces as a d group IMO.

Bertuzzi had a good game with Boston that bolstered his stats. He made a couple of boneheaded plays, too.

 

[TMLAM34]

You need to split up Matthews and Marner. Hopefully Holmberg can provide a little more offence than Minten which shouldn’t be too hard. The defence is a complete disaster. Brodie has continued to play like shit and brings no physical or push back presence, can’t have that when you already have two soft as butter players in Rielly and Klingberg. McCabe, Liljegren and Gio at least are all being paid 2 million or under so hard to argue anything there. Samsonov is definitely off to a rocky start, Woll looked pretty good in his first game and a lot more calm. Give Woll some runway here next which should hopefully lit a fire up Samsonov’s ass.

This is what I’d run with for a little bit.


Bertuzzi - Matthews - Nylander
Knies - Tavares - Marner
Domi - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
Gregor - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Brodie
McCabe - Liljegren
Giordano - Klingberg

Woll - Samsonov

 

[Gallagbi]

Still laughing at the OP blaming Reaves for the loss.

I didnt see him blaming him, but i did see a reference to Reavo not bringing much to the table

 

[ToneDog]

We literally have multiple Dubas-drafted prospects playing on the NHL team right now, and multiple others biting at their heels in the AHL. Not to mention a number of others that are looking good in their lower leagues.

Sure.
Dubas inherited a mid-tier team. Treliving inherited a top tier team.
Dubas inherited a team where the top players either immediately required a contract or would require one within a year. Treliving inherited a team where he had 1-2 years to re-sign his top guys.
Dubas inherited a team where the top players had been mistreated by the previous regime and an abusive coach. Treliving inherited good player-team relationships.
Dubas inherited a team where those top re-signing increases would cost tens of millions more. Treliving inherited a team where the top re-signing increases would be covered by cap increases.
Dubas inherited a team through an unprecedented and unexpected cap stagnation. Treliving inherited a team through massive cap increases.
Dubas inherited a team with multiple cap anchors. Treliving inherited a team with zero cap anchors.
Dubas inherited a team with a depleted prospect pool and barely any ELCs. Treliving inherited a replenished prospect pool with multiple NHL-level and close to NHL-ready prospects on ELCs.

Both inherited some roster spots to fill and some cap space. Dubas signed one of the best free agents in the cap era, and was really good at finding cheap, efficient depth through his time here. Treliving signed just expensive secondary pieces that pretty much all look underwhelming so far.

I mean, we could keep going, but there's really no contest. Treliving was unquestionably handed a much better situation, and so far, he's just made it worse.
At least it's still early, and hopefully some of his additions can turn it around.

Yes, Knies and Minten look promising but need more time. Knies will stick and should improve but Minten will be sent back to his junior team. Holmberg is probably called up, maybe Robertson. After that nobody is close to making an impact this season IMO. We are even thinner (NHL ready) on D on the farm. Gotta hope Timmins can help.

 

[thewave]

Ok how do we fix this mess Dubas made?

Inadequate coaching - Running top players too many minutes and lack of meaningful adaptation to game dynamics.
Thin depth at D - We don't have what we need to win.
Thin depth at C (3/4)
Relying on hope Woll becomes a top 10 #1G
Lack of cap space going forward

 

[Evilhomer]

The Sens and Sabres will eat us alive.

People seem to say this every year, and every year Toronto (and most of the rest of the league) steamrolls both of them. Maybe eventually it will be different, but until further notice both of those teams are still pretenders.

 

[Apex Predator]

We literally have multiple Dubas-drafted prospects playing on the NHL team right now, and multiple others biting at their heels in the AHL. Not to mention a number of others that are looking good in their lower leagues.

This is why posters give you a hard time about being so pro Dubas. Everyone knows these are Dubas drafted prospects why even mention Dubas drafted prospects and just say prospects.

 

[34]

Domi needs to do something

Don’t think he is capable at this point. He looks washed.

 

[francis246]

I dislike Keefe a hell of a lot but let's face it, it's not all on him. He's simply dressing the plugs his GM gave him...the fact that he's got a raw Minten on line 3 speaks volumes about how weak the bottom 6 is.

Def don’t think it’s all on him, I just think he’s going to fall on the axe and will be the first piece gone if things go to shit

 

[ACC1224]

I didnt see him blaming him, but i did see a reference to Reavo not bringing much to the table

When the topic started is 'Leafs Lose' and you only mention one player it's not hard to connect the dots.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes, Knies and Minten look promising but need more time. Knies will stick and should improve but Minten will be sent back to his junior team. Holmberg is probably called up, maybe Robertson. After that nobody is close to making an impact this season IMO.

McMannn and a couple others have also been tossed around as potential options, but if you don't think that's already a good number of NHL-caliber prospects knocking on the door for one of the top teams in the league over the past half-decade, I think your expectations are a little off, and you seem to misremember what the regime before Dubas left for him to work with (despite him following a rebuild).

Everyone knows these are Dubas drafted prospects why even mention Dubas drafted prospects and just say prospects.

Because the discussion was in regards to what he left. I'm not the one that started talking about Dubas.

 

[Evilhomer]

The thing is, this division is going to be much tougher than before. You have Ottawa and Detroit coming in hot. Top 3 spot is not guaranteed. It was very easy last few seasons with not much competition beyond the top 3 or 4 teams. Don’t think for a second this will be a cakewalk to the top.

You'll see, it will be. None of Ottawa, Buffalo or Detroit are true challengers yet, and Tampa is on the downswing. Florida will be in tough with their injuries. Boston won't plummet the way many thought they would, but they will be more in the 90-100 point range. Once Toronto gets past its usual early-season yawn, they will rip off 16 wins in 18 games like last season (and the one before that), which will put them comfortably in first place in the division.

 

[Smithsy]

I know Reaves wont score a bunch but his presence on the ice is obvious. It should create a little more space for the skill guys. A guy like Reaves has been what this team has been missing. The lack of heart was obvious vs the Pathers last year, need more this year if they hope to go deep.

 

[Gallagbi]

Its early and we always seem to start slow.

Nice to see Sammy get it back together after a bad first period.

Hoping some of the new guys are just finding their groove

 

[mjd1001]

Boston is off to a 3-0 start, first place in the division (yes, it is early) ho hum.

It is early, it is VERY early. Things can (and probably will) change, but as you said:

-Boston looks good. Similar to last year. Maybe it wasn't ALL Kreiji and Bergeron, maybe that D-unit is just really good top to bottom, solid on the back end makes everything else around it better.

-Ottawa looks good, REALLY good. They might be the team the Leafs have to battle THIS year for a spot in the division.

-Buffalo, not so much. Is it they are over-rated? or is it just that their top line had 120 goals last year and this year so far has a total of 2? Once they heat up Buffalo will be a contender in the division also?

-Detroit? I don't know what to make of them. I STILL don't believe in them as a legit playoff team, but through 4 games they are proving me wrong.

Again, all VERY early.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm more disappointed in the lack of intensity they showed than the result.
Giordano stepped up but that was about it.

That softee stench that Dubas brought in seems to be tough to remove.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Let it rain!

Bring in the overreacting!

 

[notbias]

Ok how do we fix this mess Dubas made?

Inadequate coaching - Running top players too many minutes and lack of meaningful adaptation to game dynamics.
Thin depth at D - We don't have what we need to win.
Thin depth at C (3/4)
Relying on hope Woll becomes a top 10 #1G
Lack of cap space going forward

The worst players so far are the ones that were signed by the new GM...

But I'd say the way you fix it is by giving them some time to gel and stop overreacting.

We are 4 games into the season, and yes the team looks bad, but I wouldn't be making drastic changes.

We know Kampf is better than he has shown.

I think Reaves is what he is, so just deal with it.

Bertuzzi and Domi have both been a lot better in the past so hopefully, they find their stride.

Klingberg has been bad recently so maybe this is what we get, but he's also had some really good seasons so hopefully he can find those.

McCabe had a good game last night, so hopefully that is the way he starts playing.

Samsanov played well last year and Woll was even better, I think they are closer to those kinds of goalies than what we are seeing.

It is just too early to want drastic changes I think.

 

[AvroArrow]

I'm more disappointed in the lack of intensity they showed than the result.
Giordano stepped up but that was about it.

That softee stench that Dubas brought in seems to be tough to remove.

I don't like Tavares' personality for captain. He's just not intense enough, not feared. I'm sure he's a great guy and great locker room guy, but his work ethic and intensity doesn't scream leadership. A guy like Chara, Ovechkin etc. wearing the C changes the entire personality or identity whatever you wanna call it, of the team.

This team just doesn't have that "bite" to them, against the team that ended your season, that's how you show up ? Where's the fight, where's the physicality, there's no intensity, just another normal game. I like the addition of Reaves, but he's a bottom 6 guy. We need that mean nastiness in the core players, these guys don't have that element, bring in somebody who does.