Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 3-1

[Mickey Marner]

Hey Toronto fans, got an honest/ well-intentioned question for you guys.

What's going on with the ice quality in Toronto this year? Why does it seem so much worse than previous years? I wasn't the only one on the Habs boards who noticed it last week, today's game against the Oilers was much less smooth than the Oilers home ice was a couple days ago.

I hope they figure it out for you guys quick. I know it disadvantages y'all because your team thrives on those quick passes and plays but I'd rather have the funner hockey that goes along with smooth ice than watch slog fests.

It's been garbage since the playoffs, but at least they had the excuse of it being summer then. The best ice is always in the shitty old barns used for minor league hockey. I thought this was due to the body heat from 20k fans, but it turns out it's just incompetence.

Also, you should've changed your name to Bargain Bin Laden.

 

[mrbagina]

The lines need to be completely changed. It’s beyond stupid having Thornton with Matthews and Marner.

I agree after the first game but since then I have liked Thorntons game, he is hard to knock off the puck, he is winning puck battles and he clearly has a good hockey iq. I get that Hyman tries hard and I like him but man he gets knocked down a lot.

 

[lebdafor norris]

Because what happen 2 games ago = same result in future game. Not how anything works.

The sarcasm completely flew over your head, my comment was referencing the title of last week's Leafs vs Habs GDT.

 

[LastOne2100]

Saying we lost because of that awful call is far too generous to our team, in my opinion. We scored one goal on a team that's giving up something like 4 a night.

People don't expect us to go 10-0 against the Oilers. I think we would have liked to believe that we wouldn't have the same type of losses that plagued us last year, and tonight was the first one of those - uneven effort, not generating chances, too many penalties, etc.

We will have to see if it becomes a trend like it did last season, or if they can rattle off a few good games here.

Completely agree, but this wasn't the first one of those this year. The first Senators game was the same crap as this.

I'd say it's already a trend THIS year.

 

[BertCorbeau]

The problem is fans here are bipolar. Did you expect us to go 10-0 against the oilers?

I don't understand people here. We lost on a PP goal that shouldn't have been called. Of their 3 goals, 2 goals were off deflections and the last was an empty net. Spezza missed an open net to it, Matthews on the PP flob easy one-timers that he should of scored on. We had most of the 5v5 possession, we contained McDavid for the vast majority of the game, our PK despite allowing a PP goal was decent and even generated shorthanded chances.

Can we just acknowledge games were we played well but were unlucky?

Strong defensive games are boring.

Key thing is offensively the Leafs were a bit sloppy with the puck. Couldn’t control it or make crisp passes to open it up more.

but I agree they played strong defensively, Andy was solid, and they still had chances to win it.

really nothing to worry about with this loss

 

[PromisedLand]

Someone do a Bernie Sanders Meme for this game.

 

[Stephen]

Looking for positives from this game, an ugly defensive environment is something that simulates the playoffs well and the Leafs need to become comfortable in these situations. And even though they got psyched to play defense to the point of short circuiting the offense, it's not like they cheated to create, especially vs McDavid and Draisaitl. The repetitive nature of this season is also good in that Toronto will have to learn to play the matchup game. Hopefully this is good preparation and they can put it together more completely.

 

[MattySnipes]

ice has always been crap at the ACC. maybe because it was intended as a basketball arena for the Raptors and then the hockey part was shoehorned in last minute. but I'm just speculating.

The funny thing about the whole ice thing is there are documented articles that mention the high tech equipment they have to keep their ice pristine all game.

It does suck because the team thrives off of smooth ice but it's nothing new tbh. The hurt is always compounded when they can't generate much either. I wouldn't put too much thought into this game.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Completely agree, but this wasn't the first one of those this year. The first Senators game was the same crap as this.

it really wasn’t, the Leafs controlled the first half of that game but couldn’t score. Better offensive chances than tonight.

tonight they were solid defensively throughout but struggled to make clean passes. Their effort level through the game was much better than that Ottawa game

 

[Aashir Mallik]

It's hard to blame the bounces when you only generate 4 HDCF.

We only deserved to win because Edmonton was absolutely atrocious. We defended well, so the boys do deserve some props for that. The defending does seem to be improving.

It feels like we really rely on Matthews to win us every game, and somehow, he usually pulls it off.

I agree we played very good and clean defence this game and got unlucky with that PP goal, but The big 4 aren’t payed to play defence, and today no one apart from Matthews really played a full game, they all took full periods off and that’s unacceptable, a team which is built up of top end talent and has weaker depth can’t have those big guys disappear

 

[Nineteen67]

More than Edmonton. Still lost.

According to natural stattrick Edmonton had 6 HDCF and the leafs had 4.
I don’t think particularly accurate in their data but there weren’t many chances.

 

[MattySnipes]

The problem is fans here are bipolar. Did you expect us to go 10-0 against the oilers?

I don't understand people here. We lost on a PP goal that shouldn't have been called. Of their 3 goals, 2 goals were off deflections and the last was an empty net. Spezza missed an open net to it, Matthews on the PP flob easy one-timers that he should of scored on. We had most of the 5v5 possession, we contained McDavid for the vast majority of the game, our PK despite allowing a PP goal was decent and even generated shorthanded chances.

Can we just acknowledge games were we played well but were unlucky?

We gotta go back to the 'puck-tracking' pucks.

 

[LastOne2100]

it really wasn’t, the Leafs controlled the first half of that game but couldn’t score. Better offensive chances than tonight.

tonight they were solid defensively throughout but struggled to make clean passes. Their effort level through the game was much better than that Ottawa game

4 shots in the third period despite being down. If that's good enough for you, sure. But it's not good enough. 30 minute efforts are not good enough. 0 minute efforts are worse, sure.

But let's not pretend this is the first time we've seen low effort garbage this season.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Saying we lost because of that awful call is far too generous to our team, in my opinion. We scored one goal on a team that's giving up something like 4 a night.

People don't expect us to go 10-0 against the Oilers. I think we would have liked to believe that we wouldn't have the same type of losses that plagued us last year, and tonight was the first one of those - uneven effort, not generating chances, too many penalties, etc.

We will have to see if it becomes a trend like it did last season, or if they can rattle off a few good games here.

They also didn't get any breaks like that Nylander deflection in the 2nd period which went through the crease and not into the net or Simmonds deflecting a shot off the post.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Funny that the only ones who can't see this are KD, Shanny and a few spin doctors on this board.

The spin doctors are always out after a loss pretending people see thing there way and management and some others don't.

 

[Critical13]

According to natural stattrick Edmonton had 6 HDCF and the leafs had 4.
I don’t think particularly accurate in their data but there weren’t many chances.

I think their data is about right. We had more dangerous chances that never made it to the net, and I don't think those are counted with goes against our numbers a bit.

Not sure how a post is counted but I think we hit two and they hit 1.

 

[Stephen]

The 3rd and 4th lines aren't doing much, Keefe has to move Hyman and Mikheyev up to the top 2 lines, and drop Vesey and Thornton down. That's the only chance for the Leafs to contend. It is what it is no depth on the bottom 2 lines to contribute.

When the situation calls for it, Keefe needs to consider bumping Marner down to the third line with Kerfoot and Mikheyev or something along those lines, to replicate the Bozak-JVR-Marner line. Then you can roll with Matthews, Tavares and Marner on separate lines and spread out the $10+ million men to carry their own units. You just need different looks, especially when it doesn't look like there's enough puck to go around.

 

[ItsFineImFine]

I agree after the first game but since then I have liked Thorntons game, he is hard to knock off the puck, he is winning puck battles and he clearly has a good hockey iq. I get that Hyman tries hard and I like him but man he gets knocked down a lot.

They can't have both Thornton AND Marner on the top line. You have two guys that don't score playing on that line? Come on. One of them needs to be switched for Nylander.

 

[Mugzy97]

The problem is fans here are bipolar. Did you expect us to go 10-0 against the oilers?

I don't understand people here. We lost on a PP goal that shouldn't have been called. Of their 3 goals, 2 goals were off deflections and the last was an empty net. Spezza missed an open net to it, Matthews on the PP flob easy one-timers that he should of scored on. We had most of the 5v5 possession, we contained McDavid for the vast majority of the game, our PK despite allowing a PP goal was decent and even generated shorthanded chances.

Can we just acknowledge games were we played well but were unlucky?

I agree with everything you said, except that they played well. They didn’t play well but were still the better team and everything else is true.

 

[LastOne2100]

They can't have both Thornton AND Marner on the top line. You have two guys that don't score playing on that line? Come on. One of them needs to be switched for Nylander.

I think returning Hyman to that line permanently is the right move. The line has worked for a couple years, Hyman grind for the puck and sets up in front of the net, Marner is the quarterback, and Matthews is the shot.

If we load up one line, it becomes that much easier to shut down our entire team, and it will be harder to find favorable matchups.

 

[Critical13]

4 shots in the third period despite being down. If that's good enough for you, sure. But it's not good enough. 30 minute efforts are not good enough. 0 minute efforts are worse, sure.

But let's not pretend we haven't seen flashes of the same low effort garbage as we saw tonight already.

Since I've started watching hockey more generally, I've noticed these nights happen even to the best teams - hell, we did this to Tampa before the pandemic.

It just seems like it happens more to our boys than it does to the great teams. Vegas and Colorado have bad nights too, but they seem to be fewer and further between. Tampa has off nights too, nights like tonight, but their highs are higher and it gives them a much bigger cushion.

That's the consistency I am hoping for this season. We saw it for two games in a row - total buy in, backchecking, high IQ breakouts and skill plays, mixed in with the natural talent.

I give our guys a bit of a pass as most of the "elite" teams are older than we are but that clock is ticking.

 

[34]

Andersen making Koskinen look like the Veznia trophy winner. This team is not good.

 

[Knies iT]

I think folks are reading a bit too much into tonight. Leafs were the better team for the most of the game.

They just had a hard time finding the net

You can definitely say it's an overreaction to a loss, but at this point these "lay an egg" games are fitting in to a year+ long pattern. Big rant here:

The Ottawa loss was a predictable outcome because expectations were high on paper, but they've been a trap team since the Boucher days and play this team stiff; failed to take advantage due to work ethic and then come out hot the next game because of media/fan disappointment and pressure after being embarrassed. EDM plays way looser but after coming off of an easy win vs. a depleted Jets team, you could have bet money that the Leafs would take tonight off. It's been 1 on 1 off for over a year now and it's why they've been riding .500 hockey ever since the initial coaching change bump.

I posted this in another thread before the team played a single game. I'm not going to overanalyze production or team skill yet due to no pre-season, but I've seen enough through 5 games to know that the team toughness, grit, and difficulty to play against are not there, and will not be there. This is already the case despite the team message of being harder to play against is fresh in their minds out of camp. It's not just a mindset problem, it's primarily a personnel problem (management believes it's the inverse). You cannot change the way an established player, e.g. Kerfoot, approaches the game from a toughness POV. You either have that embedded in your personality or you do not - see Kadri.

It will continue to be this team's kryptonite until Dubas acquires a top 6 winger with a blend of skill and natural toughness (Vesey acquisition is a joke), a third line centre with grease and shutdown ability, as well as another staple top 6 defender with toughness to support Muzzin. No, Bogosian is not hard to play against and is replacement level outside of the rare gritty play.

I'm very pro-Dubas, but I will concede that he should be fired if he is unable to acquire the above pieces and this team is bounced in the 1st round for recurring reasons because he seems unable to identify/develop this type of player. He has the year to do that and I hope he's successful.

 

[34]

If we miss the playoffs this year both Keefe and dubas should be fired

I am thinking they are missing the playoffs.

 

[LastOne2100]

Since I've started watching hockey more generally, I've noticed these nights happen even to the best teams - hell, we did this to Tampa before the pandemic.

It just seems like it happens more to our boys then to the great teams out there. Vegas and Colorado have bad nights too, but they seem to be fewer and further between.

That's the consistency I am hoping for this season. We saw it for two games in a row - total buy in, backchecking, high IQ breakouts and skill plays, mixed in with the natural talent.

I give our guys a bit of a pass as most of the "elite" teams are older than we are but that clock is ticking.

Yes, all teams have off nights, we just seem to have a lot more off time than good teams do.

40 minute efforts, 20 minute efforts, 0 minute efforts. 60 minute efforts are few and far between.

I honestly am not sure how to fix this problem - it seems like our management is trying everything they can think of to build that drive and compete - bringing in veteran leadership - replacing the coach, etc. I'm just worried we spent too much money on players who don't seem to hold themselves to a high enough standard.

The Leafs make excuses - but teams that are good, players that want to win - they blame themselves and they commit to get better. They buy into the system and try their best shift after shift.