Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-1; lose series

[17 Clark]

If you think the coach or GM is the problem then give your head a shake.

Different players. Different coaches. Different GM. Same result.

Dubas gave this team EVERYTHING they asked for.

The players have no killer instinct. And we are cursed.

Marner will stay, and somehow, magically, we will get Eichel as well. Result will be the same next year in game 7.

Is the general manager wasn’t such a pushover we wouldn’t be in this problem salary cap hell

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

Yep, because the guy who gave $4.5 million over 7 years to Zaitsev and $6 million over three years to Marleau totally wouldn't be fleeced on any deals, right?

Seems like Martin adn Uncle Leo are doing ok, and the Isles in general. Marleaue was awful, for sure, though.

 

[Azail]

I forgot that once again I cannot even watch the NHL draft with interest because our GM,The Boy Wonder,or should I say The Boy Blunder,traded away our first pick again.

How is it we were never really a serious contending team the last few years and yet we have not had a 1st to use?
How is it we had no money leftover after Lou left the coffers overflowing with cash?
How is it the future on the farm are all the exact same style players that have failed the last 3 years?

The 3 stars go to......................Dubsa,Dubas aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Dubas.

Geez I just hope at Lou's age he does not have a heart attack laughing at the Leaf exit while his guys,who do not have nearly as much overall talent,are still playing and managed a win vs Bruins tonight.

Isles play extra rounds since Lou arrived and Leafs play no rounds after 1st since Shanny picked Dubas.

Good call Shanny,Lou was all washed up and Dubas was the future young phenom GM that will change the game as we know it.
Oh Wait!

I am glad I was able to see the Cup win of 67,yes some of us are still around,because I don't think I will be around to see another because I am sure Shanny will not have the guts to can Dubas and MLSE will not have the guts to can Shanny and clean house.

C'mon Naz,raise the cup like Bozak did so Leaf fans can cheer at least a little bit.

Ew, why would anyone cheer for Naz?

 

[Le Cobra]

Yup! thats easy!

LA kings, NYI when Muzzin and Martin engaged physically they had players backing them and grabbing guys so they were never out numbered.

Leafs walk away when Martin/Muzzin etc.. engage other players physically.

Don't have to look too far. Just look at the puck flip video of Muzzin and how only Holl after a while backed up Muzzin there

The toughness has to be the "team culture" not just a couple individuals who "fight"

I think you nailed the problem. We have a problem with Team Culture, and Team Chemistry. You cant just add pieces you think will fit like Foligno or McDavid if the Team Culture is not there as a Foundation. You also need to ensure team chemistry. We need to figure this out if we are to ever get past the first round. I think a coach like Barry Trotz or Tortorella will do an immense amount of good towards creating a winning Team Culture.

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

Ew, why would anyone cheer for Naz?

Seriously. Douchebag. But we need douchebags. Not figure skaters - see Marner.

 

[hfman]

What does the season have to do with anything. Six teams with worse records than their opponents advanced to the next round.

this is another thing that has been happening for quite some time now. Seems that the NHL wanted the predictability taken out of the game... and they got it. Blown 3-1 leads, bottom-feeders sweeping top seeds, and so on... gone are the days when the team that was supposed to win the series wins it every time. It used to be that way. The juggernaut team would bulldoze their way to the finals and win it all. But that's not good for business when it happens decade after decade. Too predicatble, and fans' interest starts to fade. Kind of like when the Yankees won it every year - boring. So the NHL needs to remove that predictability and make the impossible start happening a lot more often. And well, here we are. But it's for sure here - there's no such thing as underdogs or favourite anymore - it's anyone's series, any time. When Vegas went to the finals in their first season, some people's bullsh-t detectors started going off. We would have never ever ever seen that in previous decades - ever. So this time NHL got what they wanted. And ever since then (and even before), the impossible has been happening a hell of a lot more. Predictability - gone. Get us hanging on the edge of our seats every playoff game? Yup. Bottom feeders sweeping top seeders? Yup. That's only supposed to happen once every few years but now it's becoming commonplace. How did the NHL accomplish this? Anyone's guess is a good one.

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

lol what a baby

It's been great seeing people turn on Marner and Matthews after gushing over them all season.

Lol Marner is a p***y.

 

[2 Slick]

If you think the coach or GM is the problem then give your head a shake.

The coach failed to adapt to how the series was going. Marner, Mattthews and Hyman on the first line were literally doing nothing throughout the entire series.

Jason Spezza scored more goals than the entire first line COMBINED.

Don't give me that shit that the coach isn't partially to blame. It's his job to motivate the players to start on time, change up line combinations of offense is stagnant.

You should give your head a shake if you think coaching wasn't part of the issue.

I was a fan of Dubas for being patient with Nylander, as I love Nylander and advocated for him when many others didn't. That's probably the only thing I've agreed with in regards to what Dubas has done. Trading a first round pick for a player made of glass way past his prime was a pretty pointless move. He did nothing to help out and was injured half of the series.

Nash, Rittich, depth D from Anaheim, none of it was even used in a positive manner in the playoffs. Useless trades and getting rid of picks for trash players.

It is on Dubas and Keefe. FACT.

 

[Jeremy2020]

Not Dubas fault, he assembled a team capable of winning a few rounds. Make no mistake, this is ALL on the players.

..and yet they don't actually do it which kidna sorta means that maybe they're not capable of winning a few rounds.

The guy who picked the players and picked the coach is somehow not responsible...what?

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

lol what a baby

It's been great seeing people turn on Marner and Matthews after gushing over them all season.

Why not they just raised the bar of what to expect from them come playoffs. You showed up for combined 1 goal in 7 games, who wouldn't go sour on them?

 

[Azail]

Seriously. Douchebag. But we need douchebags. Not figure skaters - see Marner.

But Naz was just another player. I don't get why people think he was all that special haha. He was a 50 pt player that got suspended 2 playoffs in a row due to being unable to control himself. I just don't get the crazy love for the dude from this fanbase is all I guess...

 

[keonsbitterness]

Maybe so but they’d work or they wouldn’t be on the team

Easier said than done. Other teams typically don't want your contract mistakes unless you overpay (see Marleau), and putting a guy like that in the minors means you get nothing while still having to pay him.

 

[hfman]

I think you nailed the problem. We have a problem with Team Culture, and Team Chemistry. You cant just add pieces you think will fit like Foligno or McDavid if the Team Culture is not there as a Foundation. You also need to ensure team chemistry. We need to figure this out if we are to ever get past the first round. I think a coach like Barry Trotz or Tortorella will do an immense amount of good towards creating a winning Team Culture.

Not so sure about this. This team has been through many different rosters, but the end result is always the same - pissing it all away in the playoffs with a lack of effort and almost seeming intentional each time. So there's a pattern there. If it IS team culture/chemistry, then what is causing so many different rosters of players over many many years to always have team culture problems in Toronto? Wouldn't that mean there's a problem a little higher up, maybe with the way this franchise conducts its relationships with its players (just as one example).. it would seem there's a "systemic" problem (i hate that word) with this franchise because if it's a culture/chemistry problem then it's ALWAYS a problem no matter what year it is or which players are on the roster

 

[Lightsol]

The coach failed to adapt to how the series was going. Marner, Mattthews and Hyman on the first line were literally doing nothing throughout the entire series

I'm going to have to agree with that one. Hyman clearly wasn't 100%. Matthews didn't look 100% either, especially in the last three games. The line was doing a whole lot of jack shit. This is when you consider switching things up, to see if it sparks a reaction.

I felt the same when I found out the lineup was being swapped for Game 5. They just dominated and went up 3-1 with a shutout; why the f*** are you changing the lineup after that? Yeah, they were okay with Sandin before, but still... When you win with a dominant performance like that, you LEAVE it...

 

[17 Clark]

Not Dubas fault, he assembled a team capable of winning a few rounds. Make no mistake, this is ALL on the players.

Look it’s the Kyle dumass fan club he is very large part of a problem whether you want admit it or not recognizing The proper kind of talent we need he deserves no more chances I’m sure he’ll mess our draft up again you can have all the skill in the world The only way this team is ever going to win is if they take body checking out at the League then the players could skate figure eights around everyone

 

[Conan]

Bottom line PP cost them this series.

Marner or Reilly has to go

I’m tired of seeing Marner’s half ass effort when the games on the line. Turn overs, puck over glass and scared to engage in those tough areas.

 

[HarryLime]

The CBJ series was kind of the nail in the coffin for me on this team. It feels weird to be able to say I predicted everything right, but I did. I just know them. I called them winning the division and losing this series, just like CBJ. These 2 series no doubt killed whatever love I had left tbh. I realize it's being a bad fan but it just isn't worth it to me. Causes nothing but bad things. I can't forgive this loss to Montreal. I'm kind of glad it happened. Losing to CBJ you can move on from, but this? Nah, I will never forgive the Leafs for this and I actually didn't even watch game 7. When next season starts I'm just going to see the team that lost to the 20th place Habs in the most embarrassing fashion. No regular season bs can ever make up for that. Done with them and won't ever watch them again. They will never be able to get revenge because Montreal was playing with house money. I won't dump on any individual player besides Marner. Just like last year. Dude is a pansy. This team was my life from age 8 to about 19. Every year since I've lost interest. I gave them a pass for the Caps series loss and Bruins game 7 in 2018 but it's just a rotten core.

 

[Maplebeasts]

No, he only wanted out once we pushed him into the background. He would have seen this through if we didn't force him out of the GM chair.

You think he would have been the answer? Did you see some of the contracts he handed out?

 

[93LEAFS]

You think he would have been the answer? Did you see some of the contracts he handed out?

Have you seen where his team is now and where ours currently is? We constantly improved under Lou. We've regressed under Dubas.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Maybe that's true

But nothing from Lou's ong term contracts (Zaitsev and Andersen) or his lousy draft record while with the team make me have any regrets about passing on him.

If Dubas' ends up a flop likely Shanahan should have turned to a third party as his choice.

This right here. Lou was making bad moves left and right. I'm souring fast on Dubas, but Lou was not gonna work out.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Have you seen where his team is now and where ours currently is? We constantly improved under Lou. We've regressed under Dubas.

Specifically which of Lou's moves would you say improved the team? Drafting Matthews and signing Rielly and Kadri to market value deals were the only positive things I can really see unless we're counting selling off rentals in a tank year.

 

[Lightsol]

Not so sure about this. This team has been through many different rosters, but the end result is always the same - pissing it all away in the playoffs with a lack of effort and almost seeming intentional each time. So there's a pattern there. If it IS team culture/chemistry, then what is causing so many different rosters of players over many many years to always have team culture problems in Toronto? Wouldn't that mean there's a problem a little higher up, maybe with the way this franchise conducts its relationships with its players (just as one example).. it would seem there's a "systemic" problem (i hate that word) with this franchise because if it's a culture/chemistry problem then it's ALWAYS a problem no matter what year it is or which players are on the roster

I strongly suspect the Toronto media plays a major part in this. As soon as they went up 3-1, all we heard was "They've never closed out a series before, 0-6, 0-7, 0-8 in deciding games!". If the FANS were constantly hearing it, do you believe for a second that the players weren't fending off those questions from assholes like Simmons and Feschuk every day?

How many times do you have to listen to that before you start to internalize it and doubt yourself?

Back in 2002, when the Leafs picked up Dimitri Khristich off a 30-goal season in Boston and he crapped the bed BAD, my father said, "Yeah, you have to have a particular mindset to play in Toronto." And we all remember the media chasing after Mats Sundin for half a decade when the Leafs were rebuilding, calling him every horrible name they could think off (especially after they gave him the C)...

 

[93LEAFS]

Specifically which of Lou's moves would you say improved the team? Drafting Matthews and signing Rielly and Kadri to market value deals were the only positive things I can really see.

I'd say he created a strong organizational culture, which is an intangible value. He was also only here for 2 and a half off-seasons. We hired him late July of 2015, and let him go in June of 2018.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Have you seen where his team is now and where ours currently is? We constantly improved under Lou. We've regressed under Dubas.

well yeah, we were the worst team in the league and landed Matthews, improving was always going to happen. And this regular season was more impressive than any under Lou so I'd say it's more plateauing than regressing.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

We’re on Oilers level sad now.