Proposal: Leafs - Flames

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Did you miss the draft this year? The Leafs' first pick in that is who they will build around. Here's a hint - he is 6'2" and isn't a winger.




Isn't that what you just did with your Marner comment?

Did you miss where the guy I was replying to said they didn't want to trade Marner for Gaudreau because he didn't want to build around a small winger?

 

[colchar]

Thats redundent.. were not going to accept a package for JG, if we need to add for Matthews we would or we dont trade JG. Were not trading for your future 2nd liner in Marner plus parts..

Sweet Jebus

I'm not sure what is worse, your spelling or your evaluation of Marner.

 

[colchar]

Ok, you guys are completely out to lunch homers. I'm sorry to say it, you've been reasonable to a point. But with the current depth of assets the Leafs already have, it would be astonishingly foolish to not add a young, proven franchise winger to go along with Matthews, Nylander, and Rielly.

They already have a future franchise winger in Marner.

 

[GREMLIN]

Leafs add, neither team wants to do it.

Why the hell would the Leafs not want to do it lmao.

edit: Read through the thread a little, you Leafs fans who say that you're not interested in moving Marner are freakin delusional, you guys make it sound like Johnny is 30+. Marner's ceiling is what Gaudreau already is, give your head a shake. I am a hugeeee Marner fan, his skillset is absolutely sick but come on, you can't be serious.

As a Habs fan it's almost like saying I wouldn't move Sergachev for Brodie.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Why the hell would the Leafs not want to do it lmao.

edit: Read through the thread a little, you Leafs fans who say that you're not interested in moving Marner are freakin delusional, you guys make it sound like Johnny is 30+. Marner's ceiling is what Gaudreau already is, give your head a shake.

Read the thread a little more (including the post you quoted). Gaudreau for Marner straight up we would absolutely do, but that's not realistic. We add significantly to get it done, and given that Marner could turn out to be very much like Gaudreau (as you've stated), we could give up much more value to get a sure thing. We're in the middle of a rebuild and can afford the risk, we're smarter to just hang on to our assets and wait.

And no, its like you saying you wouldn't do Sergachev+1st+other assets for Brodie. (Marner>Sergachev, Leafs 1st>Habs First)

 

[Mr Hockey*]

I am a Leaf fan, I am not putting down the phone until Johnny Hockey is Matthews winger! Marner + Gardiner + lottery protected 1st?

 

[Legend123]

At this point, Guadreau has way more value than marner. But if the leafs have to add they wont do it simply cuz they are like 5 years out of competition. By acquiring Guadreau, who is obv a lot better than marner as of now and will prob always be, the leafs would have a worst pick than with marner.
So i dont think the leafs do any trade to improve their team. They want to tank and tank hard.
Btw, I think marner is a bit too over rater. How many ultra skilled but small forwards bust in the NHL?? Drouin, not that hes a bust, has alot more skills but has yet to be that player for the bolts. Expecting Marner, who is just 164 (!!) pounds, to be better than Guadreau in his rookie year is beyond ridiculous and insane.

 

[Randy Randerson]

At this point, Guadreau has way more value than marner. But if the leafs have to add they wont do it simply cuz they are like 5 years out of competition. By acquiring Guadreau, who is obv a lot better than marner as of now and will prob always be, the leafs would have a worst pick than with marner.
So i dont think the leafs do any trade to improve their team. They want to tank and tank hard.
Btw, I think marner is a bit too over rater. How many ultra skilled but small forwards bust in the NHL?? Drouin, not that hes a bust, has alot more skills but has yet to be that player for the bolts. Expecting Marner, who is just 164 (!!) pounds, to be better than Guadreau in his rookie year is beyond ridiculous and insane.

I don't think any of us leaf fans expect Marner to be better than Gaudreau in his rookie year, we are hopeful that he will be similar to Gaudreau in the long run, which means that adding a whole bunch of stuff to get Gaudreau now could be bad asset management.

There are a lot of small forwards in the NHL now, including the reigning scoring champ (Kane) and 3 more of the top 10 forward scorers from last year (Gaudreau, Panarin, Pavelski). We'd like to see Marner gain some weight, and he's only 19 so he should, but that's not a reason do doubt him. Also, hold on one more year before you judge Drouin, who's only 21

 

[TOGuy14]

At this point, Guadreau has way more value than marner. But if the leafs have to add they wont do it simply cuz they are like 5 years out of competition. By acquiring Guadreau, who is obv a lot better than marner as of now and will prob always be, the leafs would have a worst pick than with marner.
So i dont think the leafs do any trade to improve their team. They want to tank and tank hard.
Btw, I think marner is a bit too over rater. How many ultra skilled but small forwards bust in the NHL?? Drouin, not that hes a bust, has alot more skills but has yet to be that player for the bolts. Expecting Marner, who is just 164 (!!) pounds, to be better than Guadreau in his rookie year is beyond ridiculous and insane.

Marner at 164 pounds is far too small to be as effective in the NHL as Gaudreau is at 157 pounds?

What?

 

[Halla]

Why the hell would the Leafs not want to do it lmao.

edit: Read through the thread a little, you Leafs fans who say that you're not interested in moving Marner are freakin delusional, you guys make it sound like Johnny is 30+. Marner's ceiling is what Gaudreau already is, give your head a shake. I am a hugeeee Marner fan, his skillset is absolutely sick but come on, you can't be serious.

As a Habs fan it's almost like saying I wouldn't move Sergachev for Brodie.

they are asking marner + top 5 pick or Matthews+.

would you do Galchenyuk + sergachev for gaudreau? would be delusional not too right?

 

[Halla]

Marner at 164 pounds is far too small to be as effective in the NHL as Gaudreau is at 157 pounds?

What?

the irony is lost on em. marner can never be as good as a guy 4 years older, 3 inces shorter, and 10 pound lighter because he is too small!

almost as dumb as the guys calling him overrated. kid has exceled at every level

 

[Yanda]

So Matthews for Bennett?

 

[Johnnybegood13]

You win with dominant two way centres like Kopitar, Toews and Bergeron that will wear down opposing teams and be able to control the matchup game when the game gets tighter. It's common knowledge.

Wingers like Ovechkin, Hall, Tarasenko are fascinating to watch and will get you a lot of points in the regular season, but they cannot take you all the way to the promise land unless you have a dominant centre accompanying them.

Did you leave out Patrick Kane on purpose? I get it that centers are generally more valuable but when you get a game changing winger with the play making and vision of a Kane or Gaudreau you keep them at all costs. Except for faceoffs they play like centers when they have the puck.

Oh, and before Crosby won it last year it had been 5 years since a center won the Conn Smythe. (2xRW,2xG and a D)

 

[Kelly]

Why the hell would the Leafs not want to do it lmao.

edit: Read through the thread a little, you Leafs fans who say that you're not interested in moving Marner are freakin delusional, you guys make it sound like Johnny is 30+. Marner's ceiling is what Gaudreau already is, give your head a shake. I am a hugeeee Marner fan, his skillset is absolutely sick but come on, you can't be serious.

As a Habs fan it's almost like saying I wouldn't move Sergachev for Brodie.

You obviously didn't do a very good job at reading.

Most Leaf fans jump on Marner 1f1 Gaudreau, that's unrealistic though and flames would rightfully be asking for a lot more.

 

[Incetardis]

Ya this one's nonsensical. Marners ceiling is Gaudreau. If the stars align he'll be basically the same player. It would have to be a 3way deal where the Flames get a player back that fits a need... Like an elite goaltender

 

[Atomos2]

Did you leave out Patrick Kane on purpose? I get it that centers are generally more valuable but when you get a game changing winger with the play making and vision of a Kane or Gaudreau you keep them at all costs. Except for faceoffs they play like centers when they have the puck.

Oh, and before Crosby won it last year it had been 5 years since a center won the Conn Smythe. (2xRW,2xG and a D)

Read the post over again slowly. Not surprising that you seemed to ignore a section I said. No winger like that can take you to the promise land unless they have a dominant center accompanying them. I repeat, unless they have a dominant centre accompanying them. Kane has Toews.

In order to be a contender, you need a centre to control the match up game. Its important when the game gets tight. This is common knowledge and I'm sure you already know this, you just don't want any negativity around ur boy Gaudreau.

 

[Randy Randerson]

Read the post over again slowly. Not surprising that you seemed to ignore a section I said. No winger like that can take you to the promise land unless they have a dominant center accompanying them. I repeat, unless they have a dominant centre accompanying them. Kane has Toews.

In order to be a contender, you need a centre to control the match up game. Its important when the game gets tight. This is common knowledge and I'm sure you already know this, you just don't want any negativity around ur boy Gaudreau.

Not sure that the Conn Smythe argument holds water, Justin Williams is on that list and he's certainly not in the class of elite scoring wingers. The Conn Smythe in particular I think lends itself to being won by goalies and by upstarts - guys like Williams who are not elite but got hot.

The Hart I think would be a better measuring stick, or looking at the list of cup winning teams and seeing what they had on their roster. The Hart is a mix of Centres, Wingers and one goalie - but none of those winners didn't have a good linemate (except maybe Joe Thornton in his first year in SJ, he turned Cheechoo into a star).

In terms of cup winners, you could make an argument that the 2011 Bruins didn't have an elite forward, but other than that the last 10 years worth of cup winners all had an elite centre (or two, see Pens), not all had an elite winger, lots had both.

The moral I take from it - elite centre is a must, supporting cast must also be good, and don't trade away elite young assets because the core of literally every team on the list for the last 10 years was drafted by the team they won with.

Also, lumping Gaudreau in with Patrick Kane is premature, he has to earn that and one ppg year doesn't qualify. Gaudreau looks great, Kane is the reigning Hart+Art Ross winner, there's still a sizeable gap.

 

[GREMLIN]

And no, its like you saying you wouldn't do Sergachev+1st+other assets for Brodie. (Marner>Sergachev, Leafs 1st>Habs First)

I would easily do that.

 

[Randy Randerson]

I would easily do that.

sounds good, most leaf fans in here think the value of a Gaudreau for Marner+2017 1st is reasonable, just doesn't make sense for the leafs, we're in the middle of a rebuild and should wait. Our 1st rounder next year could be a special player, as could Marner

If you don't understand the logic of that, have a look at the last decade of cup winners and notice that their core players (save for maybe Tuuka Rask in Boston, another cautionary tale of the leafs dealing young talent) are players that were drafted by the team that they won with.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

I wouldn't want to add much to Marner for Gaudreau, though Gaudreau is one of my favorite players in the league.

 

[MonyontheMoney]

Why are we even talking about this? Gaudreau is not going to Toronto for Marner without a serious + coming back, I don't care what anyone says.

 

[Skobel24]

Neither team does it.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Marner + matthews for gaudreau would make again 0 sense for the leafs.

Marner + whatever you want save matthews isn't.

 

[Kelly]

Marner + matthews for gaudreau would make again 0 sense for the leafs.

Marner + whatever you want save matthews isn't.

Who on earth said Marner + Matthews? I wouldn't trade Matthews straight up for Gaudreau. We finally get the big 1C we've been waiting for and we trade him for a small offensive winger? Ya, no not happening.

 

[Menzinger]

Why the hell would the Leafs not want to do it lmao.

edit: Read through the thread a little, you Leafs fans who say that you're not interested in moving Marner are freakin delusional, you guys make it sound like Johnny is 30+. Marner's ceiling is what Gaudreau already is, give your head a shake. I am a hugeeee Marner fan, his skillset is absolutely sick but come on, you can't be serious.

As a Habs fan it's almost like saying I wouldn't move Sergachev for Brodie.

It's about timelines - Marner is a cheap asset on an ELC deal - he will be hitting his prime as a cheap RFA when the Leafs are at their most competitive in the next 2-5. years.

Gaudreau Will be making BIG money next year.

Given the Leafs position (a team that just finished 30th overall) they're better off keeping Marner than flipping him in a lateral move (especially position wise) for an older and soon to be more expensive asset.

This isn't delusional in the slightest.

Edit:

Forwards also tend to have their best seasons in the 22-26 range, another pro for Marner from a timeline POV.