Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[BB88]

I just dont get how a big scoring center is being used as a comprable for a playmaking winger.

Matthews and Marner couldnt be more different players. In every other contract thread people seem to use comprables that make sense, I.e. play the same position, broke into the league at the same age maybe or similar stylistically.

They play for the same team, are around the same age and both are considered superstar ELC players and Marner outproduced Matthews.

The big big issue with Matthews contract is 5 years in term, where as Marner should be getting 6+ and that alone raises the cap hit.
You can't have Nylander/Matthews/Marner RFA contracts running out at the same time, while you still especially have Tavares on the books.

McDavid was used as an excuse for Drais' higher cap hit vs his comparisons from other teams, and in this case McDavid had clearly outproduced Drai and was the face of the league, which explains the clearly higher cap hit.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

They play for the same team, are around the same age and both are considered superstar ELC players and Marner outproduced Matthews.

The big big issue with Matthews contract is 5 years in term, where as Marner should be getting 6+ and that alone raises the cap hit.
You can't have Nylander/Matthews/Marner RFA contracts running out at the same time, while you still especially have Tavares on the books.

McDavid was used as an excuse for Drais' higher cap hit vs his comparisons from other teams, and in this case McDavid had clearly outproduced Drai and was the face of the league, which explains the clearly higher cap hit.

At least Draisaitl had played a full season+ at center so plays the same position as McDavid. Marner also faced bottom 6 qoc for a lot of his first seasons while Matthews scored 40 goals against top line competition while being a year younger. Over the 3 years I'm pretty sure Matthews has a better ppg, way more goals in general. They just are very different style of players.

Matthews was pretty much given Malkin's first contract so I would point at Patrick kane's first contract (11.09% for 5 years). With a 83 million dollar cieling that would be a 9.2 million x 5 years.

I dont see any reason for Marner to be made the highest paid winger ever, especially when the justification is using a really bad comparable.

 

[Notsince67]

Even at 60-70 points a year, nylander will be worth his contract. He had a down year, it happens.

At 60 points per year, an equivalent contract per point has Marner over 11MM. They are supposed to be be linear either.

 

[Notsince67]

Marner doesn't deserve to make more than Patrick Kane .. imo
Not even disputable. Marner has ways to go before he can be in Kane category.

People are comparing him to his elc contract cap adjusted and in that they are very closely comparable.

 

[BB88]

At least Draisaitl had played a full season+ at center so plays the same position as McDavid. Marner also faced bottom 6 qoc for a lot of his first seasons while Matthews scored 40 goals against top line competition while being a year younger. Over the 3 years I'm pretty sure Matthews has a better ppg, way more goals in general. They just are very different style of players.

Matthews was pretty much given Malkin's first contract so I would point at Patrick kane's first contract (11.09% for 5 years). With a 83 million dollar cieling that would be a 9.2 million x 5 years.

I dont see any reason for Marner to be made the highest paid winger ever, especially when the justification is using a really bad comparable.

Drai played majority of the season with McDavid and got clearly less points than McDavid, and Marner this season.
77 vs 100, and 77 vs Marner's 94 this season. Then Matthews 73 in 68 vs Marners' 94 in 82.

Matthews was paid like he's more valuable than McDavid, that creates an issue with Marner.

Then again add the extra years Marner should get.

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

He’s a player Ik u would trade ur whole team for though

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Drai played majority of the season with McDavid and got clearly less points than McDavid, and Marner this season.
77 vs 100, and 77 vs Marner's 94 this season.

Matthews was paid like he's more valuable than McDavid, that creates an issue with Marner.

Then again add the extra years Marner should get.

The year before McDavid was drafted Draisaitl played center on the top line so was a proven NHL center.

I would agree that matthews got overpaid but he really isn't a good comprable for a playmaking winger.

All these players must be licking their chops after seeing all the rule changes that have resulted in higher point totals league wide. GMs dont seem to be accounting it into the current crop of RFA contracts.

 

[BB88]

The year before McDavid was drafted Draisaitl played center on the top line so was a proven NHL center.

I would agree that matthews got overpaid but he really isn't a good comprable for a playmaking winger.

All these players must be licking their chops after seeing all the rule changes that have resulted in higher point totals league wide. GMs dont seem to be accounting it into the current crop of RFA contracts.

He played C with Hall on the season McDavid was rookie and scored 51 points.

Expecting Marner to sign a 6-8 year deal under 10 just feels like setting up for a disappointment.
No reason to believe right now he's taking 2M less per year on a longer contract.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

He played C with Hall on the season McDavid was rookie and scored 51 points.

Expecting Marner to sign a 6-8 year deal under 10 just feels like setting up for a disappointment.
No reason to believe right now he's taking 2M less per year on a longer contract.

Your right, I'm thinking of the season McDavid was injuried for half the season so Draisaitl played 1C.

Oh I think Marner will likely get over 10+ on a 5+ year deal I just think it will be a bad overpayment and there are no real comprables to put marner at that price. Matthews is not a comprable.

 

[Aoko]

In this universe where Marner making 9.5 million a year is in fact not a crap load of money.

It's not when he's leaving a MINIMUM of two million a year on the table. He's not taking less than Matthews. Bookmark this post and roast the f*** out of me if I'm wrong.

 

[Hunter368]

IMO, it's a negotiation Leafs give up a bit extra cap hit then they like and Marner gives up 1-2 extra years in term then he likes. Marner took a huge step this past year, should of signed him last summer. Guessing it will be 10.5 - 11.25 million per year but with a 6-7 year term. If the Leafs lost Marner it would be a huge blow to their offence. If Marner was traded and they kept Nylander I would be livid as a Leaf fan.

 

[Aoko]

Breaking News!!!! Hot takes!!!

We wouldn't sign Tavares, we wouldn't sign Matthews, we wouldn't sign Nylander.....hears it all before. Marner will be signed by the Leafs.

So you're proud of the Nylander deal?

Nobody is saying Toronta won't sign Marner. They will. We're just making fun of how cheap they're being towards their best player. It's one way of how you can create animosity towards a player.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I find this narrative being created around Marner to be interesting. The Leafs don't even consider him to be the team's best player/most valuable asset. Why should he be paid as such?

 

[shortfuze]

So you're proud of the Nylander deal?

Nobody is saying Toronta won't sign Marner. They will. We're just making fun of how cheap they're being towards their best player. It's one way of how you can create animosity towards a player.

What is so wrong with the Nylander deal? He had a down year. It happens. To a lot of players. He is getting paid right where a 60 point 1RW should get paid. He will most likely improve on his point totals if he sticks with Matthews for a full year.

 

[Legion34]

What is so wrong with the Nylander deal? He had a down year. It happens. To a lot of players. He is getting paid right where a 60 point 1RW should get paid. He will most likely improve on his point totals if he sticks with Matthews for a full year.

The problem with the nylander deal is that he missed the 30 games.

41.77 million over 6 years is fair and in line with other elc comparables. The leafs paid him up front. Now he is tradeable if need be.

It’s perfectly fine.

It’s the same story.

Before a leaf player signs... “stupid leaf fans. This player is worth so much more. You will lose him to an offer sheet”

Player signs where expected.

Oh my god you overpaid!!!

 

[BB88]

Your right, I'm thinking of the season McDavid was injuried for half the season so Draisaitl played 1C.

Oh I think Marner will likely get over 10+ on a 5+ year deal I just think it will be a bad overpayment and there are no real comprables to put marner at that price. Matthews is not a comprable.

But he is, and Matthews got overpaid bad.
He's not worth more than McDavid.

 

[Red Piller]

The problem with the nylander deal is that he missed the 30 games.

41.77 million over 6 years is fair and in line with other elc comparables. The leafs paid him up front. Now he is tradeable if need be.

It’s perfectly fine.

It’s the same story.

Before a leaf player signs... “stupid leaf fans. This player is worth so much more. You will lose him to an offer sheet”

Player signs where expected.

Oh my god you overpaid!!!

You expected Matthews to sign a 5 year deal for 11.34? Interesting

 

[Legion34]

You expected Matthews to sign a 5 year deal for 11.34? Interesting

People expected Matthews to sign an offer sheet for 15 million.

Remember? That was the narrative until February.

First it was. “Nylander will sign a sheet” followed by.... Nylander will sit a year. Followed by Dubas overpaid. Even though the numbers were comparable to what many outlets had said.

Then it was Matthews will sign a sheet to go home. Teams will be lining up for him. He hates babcock and wants to go home

To

Dubas overpaid.

To.

Hahaha can’t wait to see what he gives Marner. To now.... he is playing hardball with the leafs best player.

Who was never the leafs best player. Until Matthews signed

 

[Legion34]

But he is, and Matthews got overpaid bad.
He's not worth more than McDavid.

Same agency negotiated both.

 

[Legion34]

So you're proud of the Nylander deal?

Nobody is saying Toronta won't sign Marner. They will. We're just making fun of how cheap they're being towards their best player. It's one way of how you can create animosity towards a player.

Like forcing a star to take a bridge....
And letting your captain get to free agency?

Is that why they refuse to play in the playoffs?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

But he is, and Matthews got overpaid bad.
He's not worth more than McDavid.

Yup Matthews shouldnt be worth more than McDavid but McDavid gave a pretty big discount and Matthews wanted every dollar.

Agree to disagree that they are comprables.

 

[Red Piller]

People expected Matthews to sign an offer sheet for 15 million.

Remember? That was the narrative until February.

First it was. “Nylander will sign a sheet” followed by.... Nylander will sit a year. Followed by Dubas overpaid. Even though the numbers were comparable to what many outlets had said.

Then it was Matthews will sign a sheet to go home. Teams will be lining up for him. He hates babcock and wants to go home

To

Dubas overpaid.

To.

Hahaha can’t wait to see what he gives Marner. To now.... he is playing hardball with the leafs best player.

Who was never the leafs best player. Until Matthews signed

Marner has always been your best player. Matthews is one of the best pure goal scorers in the NHL, but Marner stirs your drink. You dont think he deserves 11 mil? The guy is going to be a 100 point player for a lot of years. Its not the cost of Matthews deal its the term. You didnt even buy UFA years. Its a bad contract. If he was signed to 8 years then yeah sure 11.34 is good for what he brings. Regardless of their position, a 100 point player is going to get paid. 9.5 is insulting and rightfully so.

 

[Tripod]

Highest paid coach
Highest paid UFA
2nd Highest paid RFA
Highest paid winger next?

 

[Legion34]

Marner has always been your best player. Matthews is one of the best pure goal scorers in the NHL, but Marner stirs your drink. You dont think he deserves 11 mil? The guy is going to be a 100 point player for a lot of years. Its not the cost of Matthews deal its the term. You didnt even buy UFA years. Its a bad contract. If he was signed to 8 years then yeah sure 11.34 is good for what he brings. Regardless of their position, a 100 point player is going to get paid. 9.5 is insulting and rightfully so.

Ummmmm he has always been our best player ? Okay. I’m sure you know best.

When Matthews won the calder? Marner was better?

When Marner had 2 goals i his first 36 games? Marner was better?

When Matthews came back from a busted shoulder and still outscored marner. Marner was better?

When Matthews had to carry around rookies and still scored at the exact same rate as Marner until he got 8 assists on empty net goals. He was better

When Matthews scored more goals. Points and blocked more shots in the playoffs Marner was better?

All those times?

Im glad you cleared that up. There should be a “stir the drink” tax that puts Marner to be the highest paid winger in NHL history.

Makes sense

 

[Dache]

The opinion that if McDavid had demanded that percentage by 5 years he would have gotten it.

So you’re not blending anything really? You’re just going by what someone could maybe have gotten if they asked for it