Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[LilySmoov]

Marleau's contract wouldn't matter if Nylander wasn't overpaid by about 2M and Matthews wasn't overpaid by about 5M.

By what possible metric is Matthews only worth 6M?

 

[PAZ]

Lots of intriguing teams if Marner did want to sign an offersheet. Both the Avs and Canes have a large amount of capspace even after signing their respective star players (Rants/Aho) and could use another elite forward.

Could be interesting if Toronto wants to play hardball. Toronto would definitely sign Marner to whatever offersheet is under 10.5 mil, but it puts a timer on Dubas to make a bunch of other deals to shed cap and sign Kapanen/Johnsson.

Reality is that it won't happen because GMs are rarely willing to the stir the pot, but could make a very interesting off-season if someone has the balls to offersheet him. There's a myth that other GMs look down on offersheets, but Holmgrem never had to deal with any repercussions.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Lots of intriguing teams if Marner did want to sign an offersheet. Both the Avs and Canes have a large amount of capspace even after signing their respective star players (Rants/Aho) and could use another elite forward.

Could be interesting if Toronto wants to play hardball. Toronto would definitely sign Marner to whatever offersheet is under 10.5 mil, but it puts a timer on Dubas to make a bunch of other deals to shed cap and sign Kapanen/Johnsson.

Reality is that it won't happen because GMs are rarely willing to the stir the pot, but could make a very interesting off-season if someone has the balls to offersheet him. There's a myth that other GMs look down on offersheets, but Holmgrem never had to deal with any repercussions.

Even if Colorado or Carolina did want to give an offer sheet to Marner, how would Rantanen and Aho feel about possibly making less if either team want to get Marner out of Toronto so the Leafs don't match.

 

[PAZ]

Even if Colorado or Carolina did want to give an offer sheet to Marner, how would Rantanen and Aho feel about possibly making less if either team want to get Marner out of Toronto so the Leafs don't match.

I expect Rantanen will be making around $10 mil, and Marner statistically had a better season than either of them. It's not like they are going to get paid $7-8 mil and Marner is making $10.5 mil, they will be making $9.5-10 mil.

That's why I specified the $10.5 mil, I don't see any team wanting to pony up 4 1st round picks for Marner and why Toronto would match.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I expect Rantanen will be making around $10 mil, and Marner statistically had a better season than either of them. It's not like they are going to get paid $7-8 mil and Marner is making $10.5 mil, they will be making $9.5-10 mil.

That's why I specified the $10.5 mil, I don't see any team wanting to pony up 4 1st round picks for Marner and why Toronto would match.

If Marner is willing to sign for $10.5 million than it would make things easier for Dubas to just re-sign him and it wouldn't have to come down to an offer sheet.

Also even though Marner had better stats then Rantanen and Aho this season, last season it was Rantanen who had better numbers than Marner. So at that time he was called the better player going forward.

 

[Coach]

Because it's not fair to blame Dubas for 100% of the Leafs salary cap crunch when part of the reason for it was the contracts given to Marleau and Zaitsev by Lamoriello.

Dubas obviously wasn't concerned with those contracts or he wouldn't of made the comment we can and we will sign the big 4. The Marleau and Zaitsev contracts only became a big issue when Dubas overpaid the first 3 signings. Every new GM comes in and has to deal with a couple bad contracts signed by the previous GM. Dubas knew these numbers when he overpaid the first 3 of the big 4 signings. Not sure why Leaf fans are blaming Lou and even worse blaming Marleau now for signing now when most Leaf fans were happy when the signing first took place.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Marleau's contract wouldn't matter if Nylander wasn't overpaid by about 2M and Matthews wasn't overpaid by about 5M.

Haha.
You would rather overpay the corpse that used to be Patrick Marleau then the best scoring center in the League in his prime.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Dubas obviously wasn't concerned with those contracts or he wouldn't of made the comment we can and we will sign the big 4. The Marleau and Zaitsev contracts only became a big issue when Dubas overpaid the first 3 signings. Every new GM comes in and has to deal with a couple bad contracts signed by the previous GM. Dubas knew these numbers when he overpaid the first 3 of the big 4 signings. Not sure why Leaf fans are blaming Lou and even worse blaming Marleau now for signing now when most Leaf fans were happy when the signing first took place.

I seem to remember 5000+ comments after the signing and easily more than half had very large concerns about that third year.
I am still hoping that Lou has some secret deal in place with Marleau but if he doesn't than that was a HUGE mistake that he knew that he wouldn't be around to have to deal with.

 

[Coach]

I seem to remember 5000+ comments after the signing and easily more than half had very large concerns about that third year.
I am still hoping that Lou has some secret deal in place with Marleau but if he doesn't than that was a HUGE mistake that he knew that he wouldn't be around to have to deal with.

Couldn't they have signed a contract without a no move clause wouldn't that of been easier than some secret agreement. In fairness to Marleau the only reason he considered leaving California was the third year the Leafs offered so not unreasonable to expect the team to live up to the offer after the player moved his family.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I seem to remember 5000+ comments after the signing and easily more than half had very large concerns about that third year.
I am still hoping that Lou has some secret deal in place with Marleau but if he doesn't than that was a HUGE mistake that he knew that he wouldn't be around to have to deal with.

I also remember it was the 3rd year why he choose Toronto instead of San Jose, because if the Sharks had given him the extra year I guarantee he never leaves them.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Dubas obviously wasn't concerned with those contracts or he wouldn't of made the comment we can and we will sign the big 4. The Marleau and Zaitsev contracts only became a big issue when Dubas overpaid the first 3 signings. Every new GM comes in and has to deal with a couple bad contracts signed by the previous GM. Dubas knew these numbers when he overpaid the first 3 of the big 4 signings. Not sure why Leaf fans are blaming Lou and even worse blaming Marleau now for signing now when most Leaf fans were happy when the signing first took place.

If anything Dubas still got Tavares on a discount since he could have went to the Sharks for $91 million over 7 years, which is a $13 million AAV, compared to the 7 years and $77 million he got from Toronto.

 

[Coach]

If anything Dubas still got Tavares on a discount since he could have went to the Sharks for $91 million over 7 years, which is a $13 million AAV, compared to the 7 years and $77 million he got from Toronto.

I'm not sure Dubas signing Tavares at the time to the second most (behind McDavid) was a huge discount. There were claims the Sharks would pay $13 million but none confirmed by the Sharks organization I'm aware of. Even if they did it doesn't confirm it would of been money well spent. The Sharks are still alive in the playoffs without getting Taveras. The Islanders also went farther than the Leafs after losing Taveras.
However not even touching the value of the Taveras contract you have to admit his signing increased the demands of both Nylander and Matthews (and probably Marner). Paying Taveras all that money increased the amount the others asked for and received. So if there was any discount with Taveras I believe Nylander and Matthews have more than ate it up.

 

[Coach]

Haha.
You would rather overpay the corpse that used to be Patrick Marleau then the best scoring center in the League in his prime.

Why would you be happy overpaying anyone?

 

[sharkhawk]

The problem is Matthews should have a Kane’s/Toews/stamkos equivalent contract not a Crosby/ovie/Mcdavid contract. He’s not on those players tiers. And I don’t believe the $13 million dollar offer from San Jose. It would have ruined their cap

 

[LeafsNation75]

I'm not sure Dubas signing Tavares at the time to the second most (behind McDavid) was a huge discount. There were claims the Sharks would pay $13 million but none confirmed by the Sharks organization I'm aware of. Even if they did it doesn't confirm it would of been money well spent. The Sharks are still alive in the playoffs without getting Taveras. The Islanders also went farther than the Leafs after losing Taveras.
However not even touching the value of the Taveras contract you have to admit his signing increased the demands of both Nylander and Matthews (and probably Marner). Paying Taveras all that money increased the amount the others asked for and received. So if there was any discount with Taveras I believe Nylander and Matthews have more than ate it up.

It was reported by Elliotte Friedman that San Jose offered Tavares 7 years and $91 million.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca

Wilson wouldn’t discuss San Jose’s pitch, but word is he told Tavares, “You are the final piece for us.” It has also been rumoured (but never confirmed) that the Sharks were willing to pay $13.5 million per year for seven years. “That was a confident group,” one source says. “They felt they were the best option for John, and they showed it.”

Also even though the Islanders went to the 2nd round this year and Toronto did not, they still won just 1 more playoff game in total than Toronto since they were swept against Carolina.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Why would you be happy overpaying anyone?

Obviously it's better to underpay everyone but if you do overpay someone I'd rather it be Matthews than Marleau.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Prior to Eichel signing his current contract we saw other star players like Steven Stamkos, Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane all sign 5 year contracts once their ELC had ended. So Eichel's contract changed the whole landscape for all the NHL teams with star players like Matthews and Marner.

Eichel's contract was less lucrative than all 3 of those contracts. 13.33 cap hit percentage for Eichel who gave up 8 years vs Kane+Toews getting 11.09, and Stamkos getting 11.66.

To put things into perspective, Jack Eichel's contract under the same cap Toews signed under would be 7.57M for 8 years. Even know that is a high cap hit than what Toews got by a bit over 1M, it is significantly less lucrative because it buys up 3 extra UFA years. Toews ended up getting a cap hit percentage of 15.22M for those 3 UFA years he left on the table. That's a big difference.

I don't even get this. Eichel's contract is a great contract right now. Just because it's not as good as the contracts signed by MacKinnon or Scheifele doesn't disqualify it from being a great deal for Buffalo. They locked down a player projected to be at worst an elite center after a near point per game season. They did it right before the cap began to rise rapidly again, and now they are rewarded with a great contract.

The 8 year contracts were never pushed by the players, they were pushed by the teams because they identified them as a way to roll the dice on getting top talent at a low cap hit. By taking the risk and giving players as much financial security as possible right after their ELC, they protect against cap inflation, and protect against their player peaking to another level, which with players like MacKinnon or Eichel is a lot more likely than a significant decline. This has never been a thing where players wanted UFA money as RFAs.

The posters saying "BUFFALO IS STILL BAD" as if it is a real argument about whether or not Eichel's contract is good come off as so damn petty.

The biggest mistake in modern Leafs franchise history is going to end up being Dubas not agreeing to the rumoured 8 year deal that was apparently around 12 million in the summer for Matthews. With where the cap is going, that deal would have grown into a very good contract, and it would have put a more manageable ceiling on what Marner could ask for within the internal salary structure the Leafs have. Now, they can't pay both, and by the time Matthews cap hit deflates due to the cap going up, he'll be close to resetting his cap hit with a raise on his 3rd contract.

 

[kthx]

Cmon Marner come here.

 

[Coach]

It was reported by Elliotte Friedman that San Jose offered Tavares 7 years and $91 million.

How the Toronto Maple Leafs signed John Tavares - Sportsnet.ca



Also even though the Islanders went to the 2nd round this year and Toronto did not, they still won just 1 more playoff game in total than Toronto since they were swept against Carolina.

I would think since Toronto is only one of 2 NHL teams to never win a series in the Salary Cap era that one extra win would probably be important to most of the fan base,

 

[LeafsNation75]

I would think since Toronto is only one of 2 NHL teams to never win a series in the Salary Cap era that one extra win would probably be important to most of the fan base,

Obviously I wish Toronto had defeated Boston. However in my opinion mentioning how the Islanders went to the 2nd round this year and I assume it's because of John Tavares, doesn't mean a lot since in the end they still won 1 more total playoff game than the Leafs.

 

[hangman005]

We are well over 1000 posts, if there is still things to discuss regarding this topic, feel free to start a part 2.