Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[McFlyingV]

If that was true. Wouldn’t the same agency who represented both see it that way?

Well McDavid didn't have a guy making 11M on his team to say "I'm the franchise player I deserve more than him" while Matthews did. McDavid probably could have made league max if he really wanted to. Your way of thinking would make sense if both players were the same person, had the same agent (not just the same agency), and played on the same team negotiating with the same GM.

No stat out there would tell you that McDavid is only 7.5% better than Auston Matthews, so it is far more likely that Dubas either screwed up and overpaid, or Chia despite being an awful GM somehow got McDavid on a discount.

 

[nuxnuxnux]

This is a stupid thing to say, unless they are saying this adjusted to today’s % which would bring marner in at around 11.5-12 which is fair

 

[McFlyingV]

I strongly disagree here. The only thing Matthews has over Marner is pre-draft pedigree. At the NHL level Marner has been equally or more productive and an equal of better performer. He’s also been able to stay healthy and on the ice. At the NHL level it’s quite reasonable to argue that Marner is the better overall player right now. Personally, I feel the Leafs would suffer more on the ice from losing Marner than Matthews.

I’m not sure why the Leafs brass would think he’d come in significantly less than Matthews. I always viewed Matthews and Marner as the new Kane and Toews where they would have similar or identical contracts. I’d be surprised if Marner went for less than 11.5M unless he’s signing a deal to just take him to his UFA year.

The bolded is even more hilarious because Matthews basically did that and still got 11.6M while only buying 1 UFA year. If they want Marner for 5+ years he is going to be getting in the same ball park as Matthews.

 

[Tripod]

If that was true. Wouldn’t the same agency who represented both see it that way?

Because that agencies job is to try and get the most money and Dubas just handed it over. Likely PTSD from Nylander negotiations.

 

[Legion34]

The bolded is even more hilarious because Matthews basically did that and still got 11.6M while only buying 1 UFA year. If they want Marner for 5+ years he is going to be getting in the same ball park as Matthews.

This i do agree with. The more likely compromise is Marner signs for a little
Less with longer term.

Like 10.6/11x 7-8

 

[Legion34]

Because that agencies job is to try and get the most money and Dubas just handed it over. Likely PTSD from Nylander negotiations.

And he was cured by marners negotiations?

The leafs had no problem giving Matthews his deal.

They don’t seem to want to give Marner the same.

 

[McFlyingV]

And he was cured by marners negotiations?

The leafs had no problem giving Matthews his deal.

They don’t seem to want to give Marner the same.

It sounds a lot more like the Leafs thought negotiations with Marner would be easier because they thought he'd take a hometown deal for less. Given that both players could have been signed on July 1st this past summer there was likely a lot of talks that went into Matthews contract and it's likely that they realized he wasn't going to cave on his ask and didn't want another Nylander type story developing when the season ended.

 

[North]

It sounds a lot more like the Leafs thought negotiations with Marner would be easier because they thought he'd take a hometown deal for less. Given that both players could have been signed on July 1st this past summer there was likely a lot of talks that went into Matthews contract and it's likely that they realized he wasn't going to cave on his ask and didn't want another Nylander type story developing when the season ended.

Still think it's funny that they could have had Marner signed for $9 mill per for 8 seasons if they had signed the extension during the summer. Leafs thought it was too steep. The Sportsnet panel stated that about a a month or two ago.

 

[A4T1L6]

1st overall pick but he can’t even stay healthy and get a lot of points. Bust.

He’s a player Ik u would trade ur whole team for though

 

[McFlyingV]

Still think it's funny that they could have had Marner signed for $9 mill per for 8 seasons if they had signed the extension during the summer. Leafs thought it was too steep. The Sportsnet panel stated that about a a month or two ago.

That's where you have to decide risk/reward with your young core players. One of the only good things Chiarelli did in Edmonton was bite the bullet and give Draisaitl 8.5 to ensure he got max 8 years on the contract. He could have bridged instead and then he'd be paying for a guy with a 50g 100P season under his belt with a rising precedent for contracts of young star players. In all honesty, the leafs were a bit unlucky that their young star players came in when they did because expansion teams and the McDavid+Eichel /Toews+Kane contracts changed the climate for NHL contracts.

I do think that they made a mistake with the Matthews contract. It's fine that they overpaid on the AAV as of today because sometimes those gambles are worth it with young players betting on their potential. The problem is they only got 5 years on it, and at the same time they had another young player in Marner outperform Matthews this season during his contract year. They should have been progressive thinking and signed him in the summer at an overpay for what he had shown, while betting on his potential given the direction that contracts are going for star players. It's impossible to know though what they thought of his potential. If they thought he'd become what he was this season then they definitely messed up. If they didn't then I can understand why they didn't want to give him that contract. If they waited because they thought he would eventually cave because he's a good ol' Toronto boy, well then Dubas is in over his head further than I thought.

 

[Creativero]

I really think the leafs should go the 4 1st offsheet route and try to sign Karlsson with the Marner money. They have way too much money tied up in forwards and the 4 1st will hopefully provide some good ELC or trade chips to fill out the roster for a cup run or two.

 

[McFlyingV]

I really think the leafs should go the 4 1st offsheet route and try to sign Karlsson with the Marner money. They have way too much money tied up in forwards and the 4 1st will hopefully provide some good ELC or trade chips to fill out the roster for a cup run or two.

Honestly not a bad idea. I think at the end of the day when you have 2 #1C's you really can't complain about your forward group. I'd expect Nylander to bounce back next year and give you another quality 1st liner to go along with some second line wingers in Kapanen and Johnsson. No matter what happens though they'll likely need to clear some cap space somehow. Getting Marleau off the books next season somehow would be huge for them.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I really think the leafs should go the 4 1st offsheet route and try to sign Karlsson with the Marner money. They have way too much money tied up in forwards and the 4 1st will hopefully provide some good ELC or trade chips to fill out the roster for a cup run or two.

Leafs have a 5 year window to win the cup (AM contract).

EK would definitely contribute more to wins than MM.

That said, you might want to see what Nashville would offer for MM before taking the 4x 1sts.

 

[McFlyingV]

Leafs have a 5 year window to win the cup (AM contract).

EK would definitely contribute more to wins than MM.

That said, you might want to see what Nashville would offer for MM before taking the 4x 1sts.

I kind of like his idea tbh if you knew you were going to be able to add Karlsson and fit him under the cap while re-signing your RFAs. The value of getting Karlsson for nothing more than money is worth more than anything you'll get in a trade, and having 2 1st-round picks for the next 4 years gives you the freedom to either continue to stock the cupboards or make a good trade deadline deal or 2 every year. That is of course a huge if with regards to Karlsson, in which case finding a trade partner with excess D would make sense.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

He scores goals at the same rate as ovechkin. He signed for 13.5-14 percent of the cap

What do you think he should have got?

I have no problem with the salary the problem is the term. 5 years was just stupid. Dubas now has to make decision by year four if we can keep Matthews. The fifth year he has a no trade contract. Dubas has put our generational talent in the position of becoming a free agent open to the highest bidder in his prime at 26 years of age.imagine losing a generational talent and getting nothing in return. Dubas made a poor contract decision

 

[Tripod]

Generational???

 

[shortfuze]

I have no problem with the salary the problem is the term. 5 years was just stupid. Dubas now has to make decision by year four if we can keep Matthews. The fifth year he has a no trade contract. Dubas has put our generational talent in the position of becoming a free agent open to the highest bidder in his prime at 26 years of age.imagine losing a generational talent and getting nothing in return. Dubas made a poor contract decision

Dubas did this team so dirty. Having to worry about locking someone up in the next 5 years, When a lot of the top name guys also signed 5 year deals coming off their ELC contracts. First world problems I tells ya.

 

[NewEraGM]

Many stats discount empty nets. Because they aren’t repeatable. Both lines are out against empty nets. Because most goalies get pulled with like 90-120 left now. The difference is that C play down low.

Wingers play up top. You never wonder why wingers are already on the break away.

Babcock loves centers. It’s his favourite thing to talk about. If Marner was as
Good as Matthews he would be a C. Carrying rookies. That’s just how it is.

Marner thinks he’s a C. Paul Marner goes
On the radio saying he is a C. If babcock agreed. He would be

If he was worth Matthews money. It would be done already

What? Ovechkin is not not good enough to be a centre which is why he plays LW? Same with kucherov? What are you talking about...

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Kane would make more than Kane if he signed this year.

 

[BB88]

It's amazing how insane the hype has been for all the young Leafs players untill the point the contract negotiations start.

 

[MLSE]

He will get paid. The question is. How much. Do you really think the 11th overall in league scoring should be the highest paid player in the league?

Not that he would get paid more then McDavid but it should definitely be contrasted by % of cap at the time of their signing + what someone else would pay them.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

It's amazing how insane the hype has been for all the young Leafs players untill the point the contract negotiations start.

It is amazing how much leaf players get shit on until your reading a contract thread regarding one of their players...

 

[BB88]

It is amazing how much leaf players get **** on until your reading a contract thread regarding one of their players...

I don't think any non Leafs fan here are calling Marner to be the best paid player in the league, just that why the hell would he take 2M whatever less than Matthews per year. Who people have had no issues hyping like crazy.

Read around and they want Marner to be paid the same or close to Matthews, even on a longer term deal.
Which is fair considering the year he had.

 

[Legion34]

What? Ovechkin is not not good enough to be a centre which is why he plays LW? Same with kucherov? What are you talking about...

For babcock. Marners camp thinks he is a C.
Babcock puts his best players At C. With lesser players.

He is also obsessed with D playing their strong sides more than any coach inaheb ever seen.

If Marner was as good of a player on this team in the eyes of leafs management. He would be the C on a rookie line. Not Marner

Not saying anything about any other team

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I don't think any non Leafs fan here are calling Marner to be the best paid player in the league, just that why the hell would he take 2M whatever less than Matthews per year. Who people have had no issues hyping like crazy.

Read around and they want Marner to be paid the same or close to Matthews, even on a longer term deal.
Which is fair considering the year he had.

I just dont get how a big scoring center is being used as a comprable for a playmaking winger.

Matthews and Marner couldnt be more different players. In every other contract thread people seem to use comprables that make sense, I.e. play the same position, broke into the league at the same age maybe or similar stylistically.