Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[WingsMJN2965]

Yes they can. They can use 21, 22, 23, and 24.

Capfriendly is correct. The answer is yes.

They have the picks. You were wrong.

The source was correct. Claiming that I am lazy when the source was correct is laziness on your part.

Normally, Capfriendly is a fantastic source, but in this case, they're wrong.

Also, it's kinda disappointing that for all the people that joined in on this conversation, which has gone on for over five pages, nobody had the common sense to just check the CBA.

"Clubs cannot acquire picks to use as compensation (with the exception being a Club's own draft selections that are traded and then re-acquired)."

The CBA can be downloaded here: Collective Bargaining Agreement

It's on page 38 if you go based off the numbered pages, though my PDF form has it as page 58. Article 10.4 if you prefer searching it that way.

 

[danyhabsfan]

com·pa·ra·ble
/ˈkämp(ə)rəb(ə)l/
adjective

1. (of a person or thing) able to be likened to another; similar.

Matthews = Goal Scoring Franchise Center close to p.p.g

Marner = Playmaking Winger closer to .90 ppg

So again, not a comparable.

So you use their career PPG average but what I see is different.

Marner 94 pts player
Matthews 73 pts (68 games - often injured)

 

[WingsMJN2965]

So you use their career PPG average but what I see is different.

Marner 94 pts player
Matthews 73 pts (68 games - often injured)

I mean, it's roughly the same PPG average, but to say they're not comparable and that Matthews is somehow a franchise player but Marner isn't is laughable.

Moreover, to suggest that a .04 PPG difference in their career is justification for a $1.5M difference in annual salary (Adjusting Matthews to $11M for cap inflation) is also ridiculous.

And the biggest thing you have to consider here is term. Marner on an 8 year is going to cost more than Matthews, so it's going to depend on how many years he gets.

 

[McBooya42]

then you guys should hold out for an offer sheet then.






according to TSN insider Marners family believe he is worth as much as Mathews

Damn straight he is..

 

[McBooya42]

Damn straight he is..

If the Oilers had the cap space, I'd be screaming at them to send an offer sheet.

 

[Xanner]

I'm Pretty sure the leafs will just give MM 11 per and that will be that.

 

[Tripod]

then you guys should hold out for an offer sheet then.






according to TSN insider Marners family believe he is worth as much as Mathews

The funniest thing with that video, is that Matthews would push for 14 million on an 8 year deal 1 year after McDavid got 12.5 mill....AND that the Leafs would have paid it.

I have said 11 mill for 7 years for Marner is fair....yet Matthews for 14 mill x8 was the ask from their camp. That's a pretty wide gap!

 

[Hunter368]

then you guys should hold out for an offer sheet then.






according to TSN insider Marners family believe he is worth as much as Mathews

It’s likely going to get ugly, as Bobby Mac said it’s building to be a battle royal. Marner is going to get a huge contract in range of 10.5+ million per year possibly.yikes.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Lower cap means lower contract.

Too bad Marner waited so long.

 

[JetsHomer]

Lower cap means lower contract.

Too bad Marner waited so long.

The cap will still be going up, it's not like it's dropping

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I mean, it's roughly the same PPG average, but to say they're not comparable and that Matthews is somehow a franchise player but Marner isn't is laughable.

Moreover, to suggest that a .04 PPG difference in their career is justification for a $1.5M difference in annual salary (Adjusting Matthews to $11M for cap inflation) is also ridiculous.

And the biggest thing you have to consider here is term. Marner on an 8 year is going to cost more than Matthews, so it's going to depend on how many years he gets.

Marner had a great year and is one of the best playmaking wingers in the game. That said, he is not a center and is not near the goal scorer Matthews is. This pains people for some reason, but he's just not in the same tier of player.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Marner had a great year and is one of the best playmaking wingers in the game. That said, he is not a center and is not near the goal scorer Matthews is. This pains people for some reason, but he's just not in the same tier of player.

Is this why Toronto gave $7M to Nylander after a lengthy holdout, paying him $1M more than Larkin, who actually plays center and is significantly better?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Normally, Capfriendly is a fantastic source, but in this case, they're wrong.

Also, it's kinda disappointing that for all the people that joined in on this conversation, which has gone on for over five pages, nobody had the common sense to just check the CBA.

"Clubs cannot acquire picks to use as compensation (with the exception being a Club's own draft selections that are traded and then re-acquired)."

The CBA can be downloaded here: Collective Bargaining Agreement

It's on page 38 if you go based off the numbered pages, though my PDF form has it as page 58. Article 10.4 if you prefer searching it that way.

As I said yesterday, it is not my job here to make people read the collective agreement as I much rather discuss hockey. CapFriendly was correct. I hope this is the last time this is posted. thanks

But if we want to cite The CBA. On page 39, it clearly states. In the case of SJ, they currently own 21, 22, 23, and 24 first rd picks. They also posted this on their Offer sheet FAQ on their site.

Clubs owing three (3) draft selections in the same round must have them available
in the next four (4) drafts, and so on.

 

[Icebreakers]

Marner should get 11.5...if he was a franchise center who could score goals and is big enough to have longevity in the NHL.

Not a center, -500k
Not big enough, -500k
Not a goal scorer, -500k

Seems like all the non Leaf fans are pulling for Marner to get paid but he is not like the other two Leafs.

9.95 * 8

-From Toronto area +500k

-Carries his own line and plays more on the pk than Kadri who's supposed to be a 2 way forward. Good defensively +500k.

-Doesnt get injured like Matthews +634k (Matthews is actually paid 11.634 to play 60 games)

11.634 for Marner.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Marner had a great year and is one of the best playmaking wingers in the game. That said, he is not a center and is not near the goal scorer Matthews is. This pains people for some reason, but he's just not in the same tier of player.

Ya I too am confused how people dont seem to realize wingers get paid less than centers and goal scorers usually get paid more than playmakers.

Love how many of Marner's comparables are centers or UFAs. Really great comparables lol

 

[Tripod]

Marner had a great year and is one of the best playmaking wingers in the game. That said, he is not a center and is not near the goal scorer Matthews is. This pains people for some reason, but he's just not in the same tier of player.

But there are very few people saying Marner is going to get the exact same contract that Matthews got. He will get less money and sign for more term imo...so that shows the difference between the 2.

But why wouldn't Marners camp ask for the same since Matthews camp wanted 14 million x8 when McDavid got 12.5 x 8.

 

[4thline]

The funniest thing with that video, is that Matthews would push for 14 million on an 8 year deal 1 year after McDavid got 12.5 mill....AND that the Leafs would have paid it.

I have said 11 mill for 7 years for Marner is fair....yet Matthews for 14 mill x8 was the ask from their camp. That's a pretty wide gap!

To me what that says from the Matthews camp is "Good for the Oilers, McDavid chose to take less but I'm not letting that reset the bar for me."

A sentiment that is reinforced by
-it being public knowledge that McDavid was offered more by the Oilers
-his only comparable (Crosby) getting the same cap percentage but on a 5 year deal instead of 8
-the other fans were clamouring (as they are now for Marner) for their teams to submit offersheets in that higher range, suggesting a league wide willingness to pay

The if it took the Oilers a Crosby equivalent contract (12.5-13 x 5) to sign McDavid they would have happily done it. And after a brief uproar about the amount someone would have pointed out that it was Crosby + Inflation and everyone would have accepted it.

It sucks that he's not willing to make the same financial sacrifices to win, but what can you do.

 

[Hunter368]

But there are very few people saying Marner is going to get the exact same contract that Matthews got. He will get less money and sign for more term imo...so that shows the difference between the 2.

But why wouldn't Marners camp ask for the same since Matthews camp wanted 14 million x8 when McDavid got 12.5 x 8.

That’s my thought, Marner might get more term and bigger cap hit. Not impossible. Wingers often get paid less on average but that bc largely centres drive play more and should be more defensive minded......in Marner case he drives play as good as any centre and is good defensively......imo only thing AM is better at is goal scoring. So if Marner signs for 6 or 7 years he could get the same as AM or a bit more depending on term.

 

[Tripod]

Ya I too am confused how people dont seem to realize wingers get paid less than centers and goal scorers usually get paid more than playmakers.

Love how many of Marner's comparables are centers or UFAs. Really great comparables lol

This has been addressed...it's a myth.

1 year ago, 3 of the top 6 highest paid players were wingers. Of the top 16 paid, 6 were wingers, 6 centers, 1 D, 1G.

What has changed is:

generational talent McDavid signed
Toronto gave out the largest UFA contract ever
Toronto gave out the 2nd largest RFA contract ever to a 73 point career guy

 

[A1LeafNation]

The cap will still be going up, it's not like it's dropping

Marners salary will go up too, just not as much.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

As I said yesterday, it is not my job here to make people read the collective agreement as I much rather discuss hockey. CapFriendly was correct. I hope this is the last time this is posted. thanks

But if we want to cite The CBA. On page 39, it clearly states. In the case of SJ, they currently own 21, 22, 23, and 24 first rd picks. They also posted this on their Offer sheet FAQ on their site.

Shit, I didn't catch that part of the discussion.

My bad, good call!

 

[Ziggdiezan]

That’s my thought, Marner might get more term and bigger cap hit. Not impossible. Wingers often get paid less on average but that bc largely centres drive play more and should be more defensive minded......in Marner case he drives play as good as any centre and is good defensively......imo only thing AM is better at is goal scoring. So if Marner signs for 6 or 7 years he could get the same as AM or a bit more depending on term.

Matthews is a much better ES producer than Marner, he is one of the best in the league. He also played with far worse linemates this year and put up a similar amount of ppg. He also joined the league a year younger.

There are some pretty big differences between the players. Especially position and goal scoring prowess.

 

[Tripod]

To me what that says from the Matthews camp is "Good for the Oilers, McDavid chose to take less but I'm not letting that reset the bar for me."

A sentiment that is reinforced by
-it being public knowledge that McDavid was offered more by the Oilers
-his only comparable (Crosby) getting the same cap percentage but on a 5 year deal instead of 8
-the other fans were clamouring (as they are now for Marner) for their teams to submit offersheets in that higher range, suggesting a league wide willingness to pay

The if it took the Oilers a Crosby equivalent contract (12.5-13 x 5) to sign McDavid they would have happily done it. And after a brief uproar about the amount someone would have pointed out that it was Crosby + Inflation and everyone would have accepted it.

It sucks that he's not willing to make the same financial sacrifices to win, but what can you do.

And that is where Dubas messed up because he had all the ammo to say "you are not Crosby. You are not McDavid"

Dubas caved on Matthews based on potential whereas Marner has actually stayed healthy and proved where he can get to.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Matthews is a much better ES producer than Marner, he is one of the best in the league. He also played with far worse linemates this year and put up a similar amount of ppg. He also joined the league a year younger.

There are some pretty big differences between the players. Especially position and goal scoring prowess.

Strange argument to make this year considering Matthews was 53/20 EVP/PPP while Marner was 73/21.

 

[4thline]

And that is where Dubas messed up because he had all the ammo to say "you are not Crosby. You are not McDavid"

That is reflected in the contract. 14.6% x 5 is significantly less than 17% x 5.