Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

[Notsince67]

You can call it BS all you want, but I want to see long term success, I am a true Leaf fan, I want consistency, depth, and hopefully cups. You want to know what's BS, thinking Marner is the top player or worth more than both our top C's, and therefore should get as much or more, when in fact many top wingers in the game make a lot less right now, and historically less than the top franchise C's.

Hockey is a team sport, stars are not on the ice for 40 mins a game.

Marner deserves to come in at what Kuch makes, and anybody who thinks 9.5 million a year is a slight just because JT and AM make more, well I don't know what to say.

Also, nobody but MM knows what he wants or will try and make. Media has no clue, we on HFboards have no clue, and for all we know 9.5 million is completely fine for him.

I am sick an tired of people always talking like we are lowballing him, and the media pumping up the numbers all the time like they have a single god damn clue.

Kucherov is not comparable just like Stamkos wasn't a comparable to Tavares. Tampa has a different overall picture whether you like it or not. If not, you dont go putting out propaganda that suggests Tavares carried Marner. Any person who has watched the leafs play against their team can tell who the most dangerous leaf player is. The kid generates a grudging respect for the honest hockey he plays. Tavares is a good player but his goals have gone through the roof this year and should even be higher based on all the tape to tape passes he has had in the high danger zone and missed.

 

[Space umpire]

In which case they match the 5 years at 10.5M, aslong as the number is under 11 the Leafs can afford it. What is difficult to understand about this?

Nothing difficult, I said the same. It hurts the Leafs because you will lose depth next year ... for a year until Marleau is gone. Then the push has to be using that money on defensemen that know how to actually play defense.

 

[DanM]

Kucherov is not comparable just like Stamkos wasn't a comparable to Tavares. Tampa has a different overall picture whether you like it or not. If not, you dont go putting out propaganda that suggests Tavares carried Marner. Any person who has watched the leafs play against their team can tell who the most dangerous leaf player is. The kid generates a grudging respect for the honest hockey he plays. Tavares is a good player but his goals have gone through the roof this year and should even be higher based on all the tape to tape passes he has had in the high danger zone and missed.

Well when the team meets with Mitch, they will have players other than our own as comparables. No rule exists that MM's contract has to only be compared with his own teammates, especially ones who both play different positions.

I get that Mitch has helped JT, but I also think JT has helped Mitch just as much. It was a luxury for both players.

Our GM would be the biggest fool in the world if he went into a meeting with MM and his agent without tons of data on other top wingers in the game to use as a comparable.

What is your problem with my posting? I also post a LOT of good content, but I do not want to see Mitch come in at 12 million per year, nor do I think he is worth it. I want to see our team have many years of contention, and the ability to fill holes, but you always seem to hate my posts lol

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Hope the Hawks offer sheet Mitch 12mil per and make him higher paid than Kane with Kane’s approval

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

That's what the 10 mil+ to spend in FA is for.

You really think they could find someone with Marner's talent in FA ?

Their best strategy is to swallow the pill and sign their best player for what he's worth.

 

[Space umpire]

at the same time Tavares shouldn't be making more then Crosby.

Dubas is a push over gm. Experiences Agents is gonna walk all over him like a kid he is. Did Toronto actually consider this when hiring a 29 year old gm? Look at the guy, sure he does his best to look professional and mature at the end of the day, he's new to this job, and the leaf players agents will milk every penny and get every dollar of their worth. Good luck with the expecting players to take a pay cut. I'm not sure what Laurnce Gillman is telling Dubas. Mike Gillis was able to pull it off, and I'm sure Lawrence Gillman is probably telling him that what Gillis did.

that said no way he's Patrick Kane money. But would love to see him eat up Leafs precious cap space.

In a discussion on sports radio in Chicago (WSCR) the feeling was that it's Toronto's team throwing overpayments around and the Matthews (RFA) deal combined with the Tavares (UFA) deal combined with the Marleau (35+) deal all came from the same place (same ownership, not GM). The feeling was it probably doesn't effect the other 30 teams as much as if those were with 3 different teams.

 

[Space umpire]

Except the reports are that Tavares took less by signing with Toronto....

Reports?

 

[Martin Skoula]

You really think they could find someone with Marner's talent in FA ?

Their best strategy is to swallow the pill and sign their best player for what he's worth.

Why would they need to replace Marner with only one player of the same talent level? We have plenty of wingers and there's several top-6 wingers in FA. Karlsson + 4 1sts would be better for the roster than just Marner.

Either Marner signs at a reasonable rate, someone offer sheets him for an unreasonable rate, he gets traded, or he sits. Signing him to an unreasonable rate is worse than all of those options regardless of whether or not fans of other teams call him our best player.

 

[Torontonian]

Reports?

https://www.tsn.ca/tavares-took-less-money-to-come-home-1.1128490

 

[DanM]

Why would they need to replace Marner with only one player of the same talent level? We have plenty of wingers and there's several top-6 wingers in FA. Karlsson + 4 1sts would be better for the roster than just Marner.

Either Marner signs at a reasonable rate, someone offer sheets him for an unreasonable rate, he gets traded, or he sits. Signing him to an unreasonable rate is worse than all of those options regardless of whether or not fans of other teams call him our best player.

I have been trying to say this for so long, but get shat on so hard for it.

 

[Torontonian]

You would have to think that if Toronto is going to trade MM, the value would have to be equal or at least close to getting 4 1st round picks as that would it would take to get MM via an offer sheet.

 

[Space umpire]

It's certainly an interesting option.

Granted, the Leafs own firsts are guaranteed to be pretty low for the next 4 years. Lets say they're ~27th overall.

I can't imagine a basement dweller giving up 4 1sts for Marner. It's gonna be a team that, with Marner, will at least be decent. Lets call those picks 18-20 overall being conservative, on the basis that it would be dumb for a team in the lottery to risk giving up those four 1sts + a team willing to pay Marner 10+M probably is spending close to the cap so should be at least competitive.

So you got 4 very late firsts, 4 mid-late picks. Assuming Marner is gone that gives Leafs the flexibility to keep Johnsson/Kap/Brown so they shouldn't need too much help on the wings. But you could package 2-3 of the firsts and depending on the other parts of the package get a bonafide top pairing D (especially if they're willing to package someone like Sandin). Also gives them the flexibility to put an intriguing Nylander or Kadri package together and lure another high end player.

They'd still be left with an influx of 1sts and be able to make decent splashes at the TDL during their cup window.


It's still risky though imo. We overvalue picks here and if they ARE mid-late picks coming back, they might not fetch the high end players that would be needed to make it worthwhile.

So without Marner they are the 4th/5th best team in the league? ... With that defense? LOL ok.

 

[Notsince67]

Well when the team meets with Mitch, they will have players other than our own as comparables. No rule exists that MM's contract has to only be compared with his own teammates, especially ones who both play different positions.

I get that Mitch has helped JT, but I also think JT has helped Mitch just as much. It was a luxury for both players.

Our GM would be the biggest fool in the world if he went into a meeting with MM and his agent without tons of data on other top wingers in the game to use as a comparable.

What is your problem with my posting? I also post a LOT of good content, but I do not want to see Mitch come in at 12 million per year, nor do I think he is worth it. I want to see our team have many years of contention, and the ability to fill holes, but you always seem to hate my posts lol

I dont want him to get paid 12MM either but is the problem really about money or is it about the larger point that Marner was screwed originally on the schedule B bonuses on the pretext of an organizational policy that was then waived with Matthews and then screwed on a good faith offer in the summer on the pretext of overall team discount that was then waived with Nylander and then Matthews? By all definitions, this kid is a great player who has been treated like a third wheel. They played him like a dog all year and now reward other players relatively more based on contribution. As the face of management, there will be little choice but to overpay him unless the team chooses to change the face of management. This team goes nowhere without a Marner on the team. Heaven help the leafs if he ends up on a team like the Habs, Flyers, Islanders or even Bruins of all teams. Hard to hate teams like that for wrestling him away because he would make each of them dangerous contenders for the cup for a lot of years.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I dont want him to get paid 12MM either but is the problem really about money or is it about the larger point that Marner was screwed originally on the schedule B bonuses on the pretext of an organizational policy that was then waived with Matthews and then screwed on a good faith offer in the summer on the pretext of overall team discount that was then waived with Nylander and then Matthews? By all definitions, this kid is a great player who has been treated like a third wheel. They played him like a dog all year and now reward other players relatively more based on contribution. As the face of management, there will be little choice but to overpay him unless the team chooses to change the face of management. This team goes nowhere without a Marner on the team. Heaven help the leafs if he ends up on a team like the Habs, Flyers, Islanders or even Bruins of all teams. Hard to hate teams like that for wrestling him away because he would make each of them dangerous contenders for the cup for a lot of years.

That bonus thing is a good point. I completely forgot about that. That's a really bad way to manage. Either they should have had it for everybody or had it for nobody.

 

[Notsince67]

So without Marner they are the 4th/5th best team in the league? ... With that defense? LOL ok.

With the tightness in the east, it is more likely that they dont make the playoffs.

 

[Space umpire]

https://www.tsn.ca/tavares-took-less-money-to-come-home-1.1128490

Thanks, Not confirmed but I buy it's possible. I figured he went to the Leafs to be assured being off in May and June.

 

[Notsince67]

That bonus thing is a good point. I completely forgot about that. That's a really bad way to manage. Either they should have had it for everybody or had it for nobody.

And Marner told his agent to walk away from making the point for the overall good of the team. He is a great player who only wants to play the game but for a kid who has constantly been told he is too small or not great, he has developed a "I will show you" chip on his shoulder. I saw him talk this year about how he admitted that he cheated a bit defensively in past years and looked to play the right way this year. That shows a mature player who puts the team over pure selfish points....and yet he still managed over 90 of them. This while playing more than half the PK minutes. You just cant easily find players like that.

 

[Space umpire]

Calm down already. Your shots at Marner is bordering on dishonest. Marner was already an over 90pt rate of scoring from the end of January of last year. You are peddling the same bs everywhere

And how did JT's Islander line mates fair with him gone?

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

So capfriendly was correct. The Sharks can still potentially still offer sheet Marner. There is the answer to your original question.

The page you linked to is incorrect.

San Jose does not have its 2020 1st-round pick.

Correction: the page is correct as the 4 picks must be available in the next 5 drafts.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I am quoting capfriendly directly. Email them if you want. If you think their information is wrong.

You really mean that you can't verify other sources ?

That's lazy.

 

[Face Of Bear]

This Leaf fan wouldn't let Marner go under any circumstances. I'd trade pretty much anyone aside from Matthews to make space for him if it came down to it.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Who cares if a ufa overlaps a couple contracts. Nobody was thinking it would cost as much as it will cost the leafs for the kids. Again when Marleau signed nobody was saying Nylander will get 6.9, Matthews would get 11.6 and Marner getting 10+ million. After the McDavid contract things changed. The league had never seen money that size getting handed out after ELC contracts

Do you mean that none of the geniuses hired as parts of the Leafs managements thought about that possibility ?

Some people are asleep at the switch...

McDavid signed his contract 3 days after Marleau signed his.

No one had an inkling how much he would get ?

 

[Tripod]

He will trade him or let him sign an offersheet and get the 4 first round picks, and he will come up with something justifying that it puts the Leafs in a better spot than if he had followed through with his original statement.

Dubas will just pivot, and will probably get a lot of criticism, but it will probably be overshadowed by the amount of people calling Marner a greedy SOB and his entire career being riddled in infamy for that decision. Look at what happened with Lindros when he wouldn't go to QC? That but 1000x worse due to Leafs media.

He won't trade Marner. And dubas doesn't want this to go into July as he already stated. He saw the drama with Nylander and knows it would be worse with Marner.

Dubas WILL pivot. He will trade someone and give Marner the money he deserves. Cut from your depth, not your star player and make him feel unhappy.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

According to cap friendly there are many teams. I count 8 on this list that are still playing. Though I haven't had a chance to go through each draft from 2020 - 2024.

But cap friendly is a reliable site that Bob Mckenzie routinely cites.

$10,148,303 - ∞ 4 First Round Picks

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Again, after posters after posters told you they did not have their 2020 1st-round pick, you did not have the curiosity to check other sources (including a different page of CapFriendly) ?

That's kind of gross.

 

[Tripod]

Do you mean that none of the geniuses hired as parts of the Leafs managements thought about that possibility ?

Some people are asleep at the switch...

McDavid signed his contract 3 days after Marleau signed his.

No one had an inkling how much he would get ?

Well, the Marner camp reportedly wanted to sign for 8 million, and the Leafs said no. So obviously they thought he would be cheaper than that.