Friedman: Leafs do not see Marner making more than Kane

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Menzinger

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Apr 24, 2014
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If this were true, Dubas wouldn’t have called it imperative that Marner gets signed before July 1st. There is a reason that he specifically mentioned that date.

It's also a way to put pressure on the negotiations.

He will want them finished up soon o understand where the Leaf cap situation is for the rest of the offseason.

I've yet to see a single credible reason why offersheets are going to be a big deal this offseason when they haven't for the past 6
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

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May 14, 2012
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It's also a way to put pressure on the negotiations.

He will want them finished up soon o understand where the Leaf cap situation is for the rest of the offseason.

I've yet to see a single credible reason why offersheets are going to be a big deal this offseason when they haven't for the past 6

He put more pressure on himself than anybody else when he made those comments.
 

SeaOfBlue

The Passion That Unites Us All
Aug 1, 2013
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If this were true, Dubas wouldn’t have called it imperative that Marner gets signed before July 1st. There is a reason that he specifically mentioned that date.

That was more to have an idea of the money he will have for the rest of the team, more than offersheet. I think he has even said he put an internal deadline a few weeks earlier than July 1st so he keeps his options open regarding Marner.
 

Pelle31

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Matthews got 14.02% of an 83 mill cap. He probably wanted 16% on an 8 year deal (aka 13.25 mill). Why people think Dubas got bent over on that is beyond me... Really, considering he got half the PP time as most of his comparables and is not really putting up much less in terms of production (especially goal production) and was receiving less ice time and support than many of his comparables, that may even end up being a steal.

Dubas probably wants to give Marner the Kane RFA contract. He was 11.09% of the cap back then, which would be about 9.2 mill on a 5 year deal now. Marner was 93 on London, so perhaps Dubas gives him 9.3 mill x 5 years, which is 11.20% of the cap. That eclispes the ceiling out of wingers who are on 5 year deals. If he wanted the 8 years, then he probably gets 2% more, which puts him just under 11 mill. I think that is also fair, considering he is an elite winger. Maybe Dubas is saying he wants to cap it off at Kane's 10.5*8 rather than just under 11*8, but we are talking about like a <500k difference. They'll probably work that out at a number both sides would like on an 8 year deal. I think that's the type of stuff you are seeing the Leafs and Marner working out right now.

The rest of it just seems like wishful thinking from other fan bases who sadistically want to see the Leafs get screwed, probably like they thought with the Matthews and Nylander contracts... Marner does not have any leverage to get Matthews' contract, just like every other elite winger before him did not lay claim to that kind of money. Marner is elite, but he's not generational. He's not better than McDavid, which is essentially what Marner would be claiming with that kind of demand, and I do not think other teams would even offersheet him at that amount. Otherwise all of those other RFA's (Rantanen, Point and Aho) are not going for less than 11 mill on a 5 year contract themselves. There is a good chance Rantanen and Aho are going to want more money than Marner, so what are they going to make? 12 mill on a 5 year deal? More than Matthews? That's pretty much where things would be heading.

I personally don't think Marner wants to go the offersheet route anymore than the Leafs do. For one, if a team does not want to match his ridiculous demands, then that takes away any leverage he had over the Leafs (by threatening to go to the offersheet route)... And then if he does get what he wants, he's going to have to be willing to accept it and risk the Leafs not matching it? Is getting paid maybe 5 mill more on the life of his contract worth more to him than what the Leafs would give him (a lot of which could not be replicated by any other team in the NHL)? The offersheet threat only works if you are willing to follow through on it, and if you think the Leafs are suckers enough to fall for it. Sorry, I don't think Dubas is that much of a sucker.
Yes, it boils down to Leafs fans wanting Marner to do the "local boy good thing" for the beloved Leafs and take a cap-friendly deal that doesn't put them in cap hell and the Leafs will be able to keep the band together. Where as other fanbases want to see Marner either ask for what he deserves or sign an offer sheet to screw the Leafs. So when he finally does sign a contract the HF Boards will have Leaf fans being happy and gloating, while posting I told you so if he does do a cap friendly deal or other fanbases gloating that Marner screwed the Leafs. This will be interesting!
 
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Tripod

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That was more to have an idea of the money he will have for the rest of the team, more than offersheet. I think he has even said he put an internal deadline a few weeks earlier than July 1st so he keeps his options open regarding Marner.
What options with Marner?

"we can and we will"

He will get Marner signed before July 1.
 

KCC

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Aug 15, 2007
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Marner is the heartbeat of the team. Needs to make the most.
 

SeaOfBlue

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Yes, it boils down to Leafs fans wanting Marner to do the "local boy good thing" for the beloved Leafs and take a cap-friendly deal that doesn't put them in cap hell and the Leafs will be able to keep the band together. Where as other fanbases want to see Marner either ask for what he deserves or sign an offer sheet to screw the Leafs. So when he finally does sign a contract the HF Boards will have Leaf fans being happy and gloating, while posting I told you so if he does do a cap friendly deal or other fanbases gloating that Marner screwed the Leafs. This will be interesting!

I think that is where the disconnect is though. What does he deserve? People just assume that the Leafs fans want him on a discount, which of course we do if he'll take it, but what constitutes a discount?

I said 9.3*5 or something in the 10.5-11 mill range on an 8 year deal is what we are looking at for Marner. If that happened, I would be happy, but I would not call that a discount. I'd call that getting what he deserves. The comparables would agree.

Other fanbases want to see him get Matthews or McDavid money and royally screw the Leafs, which is not really any different than when every other big RFA came up for their deals. They don't want to see him getting a discount or what he deserves, because that is what the Leafs and their fans want.
 

SeaOfBlue

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What options with Marner?

"we can and we will"

He will get Marner signed before July 1.

He will trade him or let him sign an offersheet and get the 4 first round picks, and he will come up with something justifying that it puts the Leafs in a better spot than if he had followed through with his original statement.

Dubas will just pivot, and will probably get a lot of criticism, but it will probably be overshadowed by the amount of people calling Marner a greedy SOB and his entire career being riddled in infamy for that decision. Look at what happened with Lindros when he wouldn't go to QC? That but 1000x worse due to Leafs media.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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It will be pretty hard to name a single trade in the last 10 years where a team gace up the equivalent of 4 1st going he other direction. That's a massive amount ofnvalu, especially in the ew era where young players/prospects hold more value than ever.

Then you have the reality that there is way to guarantee those picks are in the 20s. Anything can happen and teams can have awful seasons at random.

The Marner offersheet is a complete paper tiger. Nothing Its fodder for hot take journalism and message board discussions, not real life.

On the flipside, when's the last time a player of Marner's caliber was available? Most trades that have taken place over the past 10 years haven't involved players as good as Marner. The closest comparable might be Kessel going to Toronto from Boston, and look at what Boston got from the Leafs for him (what amounted to two Top 10 picks and a 2nd round pick). And at the time, he wasn't as good as Marner showed to be this past season.
 

Seanaconda

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I'd say Crosby is the heartbeat of the Penguins so why does Malkin make $800,000 more than Sid?
Signed later , wasn't coming off of possibly career shortening neck injury at the time and new cba so they couldn't give him a 12 year contract .

Anyways marner is the least injured of the two for the only factor that is comparable out of those three.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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I'd say Crosby is the heartbeat of the Penguins so why does Malkin make $800,000 more than Sid?

Because Malkin's latest deal was signed after the 8-year limit was put in place and there was no way to structure it without going over Sid's per year amount without Geno essentially taking a pay cut on his previous contract.

I don't think that's a good example to use as a comparison to the Marner situation.
 

yababy

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Jun 26, 2015
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It will be a total failure if Marner gets more than Kutcherov got. Kutcherov is a UFA most of his contract and had back to back monster seasons.

I undestand that the tax rate for Canadian player is about 14% greater than for Florida state player.
So if Marner makes 11M that's about par with Kucherov 9.5M
 

BruinsBtn

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On the flipside, when's the last time a player of Marner's caliber was available? Most trades that have taken place over the past 10 years haven't involved players as good as Marner. The closest comparable might be Kessel going to Toronto from Boston, and look at what Boston got from the Leafs for him (what amounted to two Top 10 picks and a 2nd round pick). And at the time, he wasn't as good as Marner showed to be this past season.

People are bringing up that one a lot but what place were the Leafs in the year they made the trade? They were around 7th last. You got the Rangers, Buffalo, Edmonton, Anaheim and Vancouver in that range right now. So you get two first rounders from one of those teams but with the way the NHL is right now, any of those teams could end up outside the top-10, especially once they add Marner.
 

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
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And Marner increased his career high by 25 points?

JT did more for Mitch when you look at numbers
Calm down already. Your shots at Marner is bordering on dishonest. Marner was already an over 90pt rate of scoring from the end of January of last year. You are peddling the same bs everywhere
 

flamesforcup

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Sep 5, 2017
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I undestand that the tax rate for Canadian player is about 14% greater than for Florida state player.
So if Marner makes 11M that's about par with Kucherov 9.5M
Toronto players also make more endorsements though.
 

yababy

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Jun 26, 2015
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Calm down already. Your shots at Marner is bordering on dishonest. Marner was already an over 90pt rate of scoring from the end of January of last year. You are peddling the same bs everywhere

what's funny about 2017-18 season is that Leafs brass tried to hide marner on the 4th line and bench him for his defensive play - all in an effort to get him to sign a cheap contract last summer.
Good on the kid for telling them to go puck themselves
 
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Space umpire

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This is real life: things only work like this on hypothetical message board.

No GM is going to give Marner an offersheet unless they're willing to actually risk losing the 4 1st round picks. The player in turn would only risk signing an offersheet unless he was actually willing to leave his team.

The number of teams that have the cap space (11ish miion), are wing to lose 4 1sts and that Marner would actually accept are essentially zero
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
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That argument only works based on cap percentage though doesn't it? It seems this has more to do with cap hit than cap percentage.

I also think if they view Kane's contract as the ceiling, they are probably not starting that high. They are probably starting with Kucherov or Stone as the article suggested.

Cap hit percentage is only useful if comparing contracts of equivalent length and circumstances.

More likely, the reference to Kane is on the remaining 4 years he has left, and the likelihood that Marner is more likely to be looking at a 4-5 year deal than a 7-8.

Objectively, the only reason I can see any justification for Marner earning more than Kane over the next 4 seasons is because of Kane's potential decline due to age... but that should be outweighed by the fact that he's in UFA years, has 3 stanley cups, is a better goalscorer, and is much, much more proven overall.
 

DanM

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Oct 2, 2017
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Calm down already. Your shots at Marner is bordering on dishonest. Marner was already an over 90pt rate of scoring from the end of January of last year. You are peddling the same bs everywhere

You can call it BS all you want, but I want to see long term success, I am a true Leaf fan, I want consistency, depth, and hopefully cups. You want to know what's BS, thinking Marner is the top player or worth more than both our top C's, and therefore should get as much or more, when in fact many top wingers in the game make a lot less right now, and historically less than the top franchise C's.

Hockey is a team sport, stars are not on the ice for 40 mins a game.

Marner deserves to come in at what Kuch makes, and anybody who thinks 9.5 million a year is a slight just because JT and AM make more, well I don't know what to say.

Also, nobody but MM knows what he wants or will try and make. Media has no clue, we on HFboards have no clue, and for all we know 9.5 million is completely fine for him.

I am sick an tired of people always talking like we are lowballing him, and the media pumping up the numbers all the time like they have a single god damn clue.
 
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Connor McConnor

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Nov 22, 2017
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MM definitely wants to be a Leaf. I don't see him getting moved this offseason.. I'm thinking $10 x 4 bridge deal
 

DanM

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Oct 2, 2017
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MM definitely wants to be a Leaf. I don't see him getting moved this offseason.. I'm thinking $10 x 4 bridge deal

I agree with maybe a bridge, and he wants to be here, but I don't think the team would do 10x4 lol

Let's also keep in mind nobody actually knows what MM wants.

10x4 would be a McDavid bridge (not that you would ever bridge McDavid lol)
 
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