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LD Ivan Provorov (2015, 7th, PHI) II

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Rookie defenseman playing on top line against excellent opposition has bad game.

Is this news? Move on. Also, +/- on its own is utterly worthless just as most stats are.
 
The Palm Isle said:
Brutal night for him, and I wouldn't say he was unlucky.

They're not doing him any favours by giving him prime time minutes with a guy like Streit, who stopped playing defense two years ago.
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He did play poorly but it was unlucky in the sense every little mistake he had seemed to back fire and result in goal as Streit did him zero favors. I mean on the go ahead goal for the 5th goal Provorov pinched and blocked the pass but had zero support behind him (Thierrien said that was good play and a forward should had his support) and the puck bounced but found it's way to a hawk who found the guy behind Provorov who then had a 2 on 1 vs Streit who literally did nothing but stand there and give up the one timer. Bad game where he also had zero help and every mistake seemed to result in a goal. Should be a good learning experience for the kid.
 
Didn't like him as a player in junior and don't like him now. Too easily pressured into mistakes and not skilled enough offensively to make up for it. That said he's got some good fundamentals and is young enough to improve.
 
docbenton said:
Didn't like him as a player in junior and don't like him now. Too easily pressured into mistakes and not skilled enough offensively to make up for it. That said he's got some good fundamentals and is young enough to improve.
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From what I watched of the WHL and the memorial cup last season (I didn't watch everything that's for sure) Provorov was probably the most mistake free defenseman in junior hockey. He's very reliable. Passes seem to be always in the perfect spot, and he doesn't have a panic mode. He's been thrown out against the opposition's best forward line's for his first four NHL games of his career, and that will probably continue until Gudas and MDZ return. He's adjusting.
 
Unger9 said:
From what I watched of the WHL and the memorial cup last season (I didn't watch everything that's for sure) Provorov was probably the most mistake free defenseman in junior hockey. He's very reliable. Passes seem to be always in the perfect spot, and he doesn't have a panic mode. He's been thrown out against the opposition's best forward line's for his first four NHL games of his career, and that will probably continue until Gudas and MDZ return. He's adjusting.
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I think Provorov is great

But he was far from mistake free in the memorial cup.

He was absolutely Brutal, constant offsides and turnovers.
 
park towers said:
I have to agree he did not impress on the big stage. He can still be a top 2 guy, he has the tools, takes time for dee
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The big stage like the World Juniors where he was the top d man for Russia (with 8 points in 7 games), which lost the gold medal in OT? That big stage? Or the Memorial Cup, where he was a star of the game the 1st game and played very well the 3rd game, but had one off game in the 2nd game....an off game where he was still probably the best player on his team in a complete ass-whooping from head to toe of the lineup? It's just a fictional narrative by people who probably only saw him play the 1 game against London.
 
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Provorov was the best Flyers d man all preseason, and they threw everything possible at him. He was the best d man in the Flyers first 2 games against LA and Arizona. He had a stinker against Chicago, with a whole lot of ill fortune and poor teammate play thrown in. He was up and down tonight, but it seemed more of a confidence thing than anything after last game. Unlike other teenage d men, Provorov is seeing top pair minutes at all strengths and against the hardest competition on his team: I'm talking Kopitar, Kane, Getzlaf. In his first 4 NHL games. With a 39 year old, sheltered d partner. He is undergoing trial by fire right now unlike any other similarly aged d prospect, now or in recent years, be it Ekblad or Hanifin or Lindholm or Jones or whoever. He's not getting sheltered 3rd pair minutes to ease him in. It's unfair but out of pure necessity. It will ease up a bit in the next few weeks when both Del Zotto and Gudas return, but it makes it very tough to evaluate him right now.
 
I think it is safe to conclude after these four games that Provorov is a massive bust.
 
Of the guys from 14-16 drafts there are 4 who are unsheltered this season: Ekblad, Werenski, Carlo and Provorov. Ekblad is in a class of his own - 1st pick and a 1D already. As for the others, Werenski plays with Seth Jones, Carlo plays with Zdeno Chara and Provorov plays with Mark Streit. Guy is learning it the hard way - he'll be fine.
 
It's a shame he can't go to the AHL for a half year or so of seasoning.

Guy's clearly too good to go back to Brandon, but isn't quite ready for the big show just yet.

He'll get there. Oozes talent.
 
Crazy as it may seem he has the best Corsi on the Flyers backend (51.14) and the best CA/60 on the Flyers backend (44.45) over four games.

While playing against the opponents first line (he has toughest TOI QoC at thus early venture in the year, which in small sample is probably best way to judge it... and he has been matched up vs 1st lines each game.)

But he also has a .760 on ice sv%... and an 86% PDO.

Now, that has not been just bad luck... there have been a lot of high % chances against while he is on the ice... but he is doing a lot of the small things right (he has rarely been stuck in own zone for example, and has hardly missed an outlet)... he has just made more mistakes than he should too.
 
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The Palm Isle said:
It's a shame he can't go to the AHL for a half year or so of seasoning.

Guy's clearly too good to go back to Brandon, but isn't quite ready for the big show just yet.

He'll get there. Oozes talent.
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He's more than ready for the NHL, let's not be ridiculous. He's had 2 good games, 1 shocking game and a mediocre one last night. That puts him 2 good games ahead of pretty much anyone else on our defense since Pronger took an arrow to the knee.
 
Magua said:
Provorov was the best Flyers d man all preseason, and they threw everything possible at him. He was the best d man in the Flyers first 2 games against LA and Arizona. He had a stinker against Chicago, with a whole lot of ill fortune and poor teammate play thrown in. He was up and down tonight, but it seemed more of a confidence thing than anything after last game. Unlike other teenage d men, Provorov is seeing top pair minutes at all strengths and against the hardest competition on his team: I'm talking Kopitar, Kane, Getzlaf. In his first 4 NHL games. With a 39 year old, sheltered d partner. He is undergoing trial by fire right now unlike any other similarly aged d prospect, now or in recent years, be it Ekblad or Hanifin or Lindholm or Jones or whoever. He's not getting sheltered 3rd pair minutes to ease him in. It's unfair but out of pure necessity. It will ease up a bit in the next few weeks when both Del Zotto and Gudas return, but it makes it very tough to evaluate him right now.
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Not exactly. Werenski and Carlo also playing top pair / top competition.
 
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major major said:
Yeah, not exactly. Werenski and Carlo also playing top pair / top competition.
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Not totally true. Carlo is getting similar opponents to Provorov (though he has Chara, not Streit next to him)... but Werenski has had the 4th toughest QoC on the Blue Jackets... which is a better measure than Corsi QoC over smaller time-frames really.

Once we get ~20 games into the season Corsi QoC is more useful though ofc.
 
Breakers said:
I think Provorov is great

But he was far from mistake free in the memorial cup.

He was absolutely Brutal, constant offsides and turnovers.
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You must've watched the London game only. For anyone who watched him in junior hockey, "brutal" is definitely not an adjective that describes his performance. During the London game, in which his team was getting dominated up and down, he was still the same old Provorov in the defensive zone even if he missed some scoring chances.
 
docbenton said:
Didn't like him as a player in junior and don't like him now. Too easily pressured into mistakes and not skilled enough offensively to make up for it. That said he's got some good fundamentals and is young enough to improve.
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One thing I really didn't like about Provorov when it was rumoured that the Leafs might be interested in him at the draft was his weirdly "mechanical" skating stride and his odd long stick, which seems to result in this kind of unfluid looking puckhandling. This isn't a comment on his quality as a prospect but that always bugged me about him.
 
Stephen said:
One thing I really didn't like about Provorov when it was rumoured that the Leafs might be interested in him at the draft was his weirdly "mechanical" skating stride and his odd long stick, which seems to result in this kind of unfluid looking puckhandling. This isn't a comment on his quality as a prospect but that always bugged me about him.
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Those "issues" sure didn't affect him in junior. They're not an issue now either. He does look very robotic though and it does look weird.
 
Appleyard said:
Not totally true. Carlo is getting similar opponents to Provorov (though he has Chara, not Streit next to him)... but Werenski has had the 4th toughest QoC on the Blue Jackets... which is a better measure than Corsi QoC over smaller time-frames really.

Once we get ~20 games into the season Corsi QoC is more useful though ofc.
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Very true and Carlo also has a 39 year old partner. Chara has not been himself the last 3 years. Not an easy guy to play with, most have failed, Hamilton, Colin Miller, Morrow. Carlo is playing over 21 minutes a night, plus 7 but was not supposed to make the team. Provorov will be one of the anchors on dee for the flyers for years to come. His style, poise will compliment any partner. If he can play with Streit, then watch out when the other highly touted philly prospects get there.
 
park towers said:
Very true and Carlo also has a 39 year old partner. Chara has not been himself the last 3 years. Not an easy guy to play with, most have failed, Hamilton, Colin Miller, Morrow. Carlo is playing over 21 minutes a night, plus 7 but was not supposed to make the team. Provorov will be one of the anchors on dee for the flyers for years to come. His style, poise will compliment any partner. If he can play with Streit, then watch out when the other highly touted philly prospects get there.
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No doubt Chara isn't what he was, but he's still not at Streit's level.
 
Appleyard said:
Not totally true. Carlo is getting similar opponents to Provorov (though he has Chara, not Streit next to him)... but Werenski has had the 4th toughest QoC on the Blue Jackets... which is a better measure than Corsi QoC over smaller time-frames really.

Once we get ~20 games into the season Corsi QoC is more useful though ofc.
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Where are you finding QoC? I usually used behindthenet, but it doesn't seem to have stats for this season that I can find..
 
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