Nucklehead Supreme
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Speculation: Larry Brooks: Canucks possibly going to make a run at Lafreniere
- Thread starter UrbanImpact
- Start date
Pettersson has shown a lot more than Lafreniere.
The only real benefit to a team taking Lafreniere over Pettersson right now would be cap space.
I don't really think the ceiling for either player is very far apart. Pettersson also showed much more much earlier.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
There's a difference between saying "you'd have to give up Pettersson to get Lafreniere" and "Lafreniere is worth Pettersson".
The Rangers would definitely have to add on top of Lafreniere to get Pettersson (it's impossible to say how much though), but you're not getting Lafreniere for a short term addition like Miller. Teams just don't trade elite young talent for short term players, it just doesn't happen.
It's why Vegas would only give up Brannstrom for Stone if Stone came with an extension.
Nucklehead Supreme
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Pettersson (right now) is on another level then Laf, and plays the more important position, they (right now) aren't comparable.
There is no benefit (right now) to taking an unproven player who is younger over a much more proven player who is a few years older.
Nucklehead Supreme
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When did I ever say we could get Laf, like ever? Your making a point that is not needed at all. No sane Canucks fan believes that we can get Laf for Miller.
Right now Laf is no where near Petey in terms of value, could he be one day? Absolutely, but not now and yes it would be absolutely ridiculous to expect that return for an unproven player.
I get the Stone comparison but he was an upcoming UFA, JT isn't and again we don't realistically expect to get Laf for Miller.
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The trouble with this thread is 2 fold..........
1. There is no way Laf and/or Kakko get moved while they are so young. Their potential is 1st line players, and because they were drafted so high, their climb isn't that far. They need time to mature. If I am NYR, there is no way I do this. Neither would Vancouver. It is their pedigree that makes them so valuable.
2. The over protection of the fans with their own prospects. The reason is, they know them well, where as they really do not know the asset that is being offered back. Take in case Miller and the NYR fans, They remember the old Miller and not the today Miller. Big Difference. So on one hand, they will argue point #1, that players can develop with time and maturity, and on the other hand, can't get past, having seen Miller when he was the exact same age as Laff and Kokko.
The truth is, Miller as shown last night with a 4 point game, has moved his game to an entirely different level, then when he was in NY. It is not whether he is better than Panarin, Zib, or Kreider, but that it is fair to mention him in the same breath, without the argument. My point is, there is not one team, that if not constrained by the Cap, would not want to add Miller to their line up.
The last thing is, any team, that is in the top 10, and in this season, probably the top 13, if adding a Miller, improves their team substantially, and improve their chances of winning the cup.
Now, for some teams, because of cap circumstances, Miller at 50% retained would be like a super duper rental. In truth, this opertunity, seldom, if ever comes up, with a star player. But for some teams, there would be the opportunity to have him reduced for 2 years, and then have him resigned, if his production and their team is improved by him.
Finally, when a team with minimal cap space wants this type of player, it is not a impossible task to clear cap. Take in point how Vegas moved cap for both Alex Pietrangelo and Jack Eichel. Their are many other examples of this throughout trading history. It is denial to state otherwise.
Trades happen because the teams, like what the other teams are offering and how those assets, fit in to where they are at present and the near future. I do not think I have ever heard of a case where the fans voided a trade.
Millers value, is a Good roster player, a good prospect and a 1st, especially at 50% reduced, you just have to look at past history to see that that value has been set for a player of his abilities. Keep in mind, that most contending teams 1st's are late and the prospect coming from that 1st, usually can be found anywhere between 27 and 37 ish in a normal draft year. (Values are quite similar)
Don't get me wrong, I love the debate on this subject, and some valid points are being made, but the statements of prospects absolute value are a little ridiculous. In saying that, if Vancouver really wants a particular player, aka Schneider, then it is a good bet that Vancouver values him high, as would the NYR's. Is Schneider untouchable, probably not, but will he affect the entire offer, yes, probably. No Schneider for Miller 50% retained is not a fair deal. It will be Schneider + +, to get Miller, and the pluses will be good, the question will be, whether Vancouver feels it is enough.
1. There is no way Laf and/or Kakko get moved while they are so young. Their potential is 1st line players, and because they were drafted so high, their climb isn't that far. They need time to mature. If I am NYR, there is no way I do this. Neither would Vancouver. It is their pedigree that makes them so valuable.
2. The over protection of the fans with their own prospects. The reason is, they know them well, where as they really do not know the asset that is being offered back. Take in case Miller and the NYR fans, They remember the old Miller and not the today Miller. Big Difference. So on one hand, they will argue point #1, that players can develop with time and maturity, and on the other hand, can't get past, having seen Miller when he was the exact same age as Laff and Kokko.
The truth is, Miller as shown last night with a 4 point game, has moved his game to an entirely different level, then when he was in NY. It is not whether he is better than Panarin, Zib, or Kreider, but that it is fair to mention him in the same breath, without the argument. My point is, there is not one team, that if not constrained by the Cap, would not want to add Miller to their line up.
The last thing is, any team, that is in the top 10, and in this season, probably the top 13, if adding a Miller, improves their team substantially, and improve their chances of winning the cup.
Now, for some teams, because of cap circumstances, Miller at 50% retained would be like a super duper rental. In truth, this opertunity, seldom, if ever comes up, with a star player. But for some teams, there would be the opportunity to have him reduced for 2 years, and then have him resigned, if his production and their team is improved by him.
Finally, when a team with minimal cap space wants this type of player, it is not a impossible task to clear cap. Take in point how Vegas moved cap for both Alex Pietrangelo and Jack Eichel. Their are many other examples of this throughout trading history. It is denial to state otherwise.
Trades happen because the teams, like what the other teams are offering and how those assets, fit in to where they are at present and the near future. I do not think I have ever heard of a case where the fans voided a trade.
Millers value, is a Good roster player, a good prospect and a 1st, especially at 50% reduced, you just have to look at past history to see that that value has been set for a player of his abilities. Keep in mind, that most contending teams 1st's are late and the prospect coming from that 1st, usually can be found anywhere between 27 and 37 ish in a normal draft year. (Values are quite similar)
Don't get me wrong, I love the debate on this subject, and some valid points are being made, but the statements of prospects absolute value are a little ridiculous. In saying that, if Vancouver really wants a particular player, aka Schneider, then it is a good bet that Vancouver values him high, as would the NYR's. Is Schneider untouchable, probably not, but will he affect the entire offer, yes, probably. No Schneider for Miller 50% retained is not a fair deal. It will be Schneider + +, to get Miller, and the pluses will be good, the question will be, whether Vancouver feels it is enough.
Why are there so many Laf posts? Is he actually on the trading block, or are NYR fans throwing in the towel early?
To get Laf out of NY would require an overpayment. I take no issue with nyr fans asking for a return like Pettersson. That's probably what it would take, an overpayment.
Pettersson has proven way more by an earlier age than Laf, but you don't give up a recent 1oa for a stat-comparable roster player. For a team to move someone like that, regardless of how they're struggling, you're expecting to get a near sure thing in return given that you're trading away high potential.
Pettersson has proven way more by an earlier age than Laf, but you don't give up a recent 1oa for a stat-comparable roster player. For a team to move someone like that, regardless of how they're struggling, you're expecting to get a near sure thing in return given that you're trading away high potential.
The more I think about it, the more I really wouldn't want to trade JT for Laf 1 for 1.
We REALLY need to hit a home run with this trade, and the possibility that Laf is a bust or doesn't become a top line forward is still very high. Given our prospect pool is absolutely bare, we need JT to recoup 3-4 quality assets to jumpstart the rebuild/retool.
There's too many risks to trade for Lafreniere, especially since he's a winger and doesn't play any premium positions we would be looking for (defense, center). We already have Hoglander, Boeser, Podkolzin and Garland on the wings at the moment, and Garland is the oldest of the bunch at 25.
Would rather go the Duchene/Karlsson trade and accumulate multitude of assets compared to going after one blue chip prospect like the Stone trade.
We REALLY need to hit a home run with this trade, and the possibility that Laf is a bust or doesn't become a top line forward is still very high. Given our prospect pool is absolutely bare, we need JT to recoup 3-4 quality assets to jumpstart the rebuild/retool.
There's too many risks to trade for Lafreniere, especially since he's a winger and doesn't play any premium positions we would be looking for (defense, center). We already have Hoglander, Boeser, Podkolzin and Garland on the wings at the moment, and Garland is the oldest of the bunch at 25.
Would rather go the Duchene/Karlsson trade and accumulate multitude of assets compared to going after one blue chip prospect like the Stone trade.
ForeverDrought
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I hope Canucks don’t trade Horvat. That guy is pure heart and soul. JT would do well on the Rangers, or perhaps Bruins.
Pure Slaughter Value
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How is Lafreniere comparable to Pettersson stat-wise? It's not even close and Petterson is having an off year
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Bolt32
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As a Lightning fan I would love to get Lafreniere on the Bolts, though with that said I don't think I would be comfortable with what we would have to give up. I honestly believe though, if set up to succeed, he could warrant his draft position. For a team like the Canucks, that has to be enticing.
jackjohnson
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That's not what I was saying. A stat comparable roster player doesn't carry the same value as Laf so goal/assist totals aren't really relevant when talking about his value. Again, it would take an overpayment like Pettersson to even get the conversation started.
jackjohnson
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There is no way we trade Petersson for someone close to bust territory. Its a huge risk
Sweetpotato
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This seems like shit at a wall because of the agent connection.
If true, Van are insane because there's no way NY is going to move him unless Horvat, Pettersson or Hughes are involved. Which would be extremely counter productive and TBH would absolutely detonate in their face I don't think Laf becomes more than a 2nd liner long term.
If true, Van are insane because there's no way NY is going to move him unless Horvat, Pettersson or Hughes are involved. Which would be extremely counter productive and TBH would absolutely detonate in their face I don't think Laf becomes more than a 2nd liner long term.
BenningHurtsMySoul
Unfair Huggy Bear
Pettersson has more than half of Lafreniere's goal total in his last 6 games, and he's been shit this year.
Nemesis Prime
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SensFactor
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What about Bo Horvat + 1st (top 3 protected) + conditional pick if Horvat extends with NY after his contract ends in 2 seasons
BenningHurtsMySoul
Unfair Huggy Bear
For Lafreniere?
That 1st would need to be top 10 protected.
Laf should be a piece the Rangers are using to acquire Miller, not a piece the Canucks should be offering up multiple assets to acquire. He hasn't shown enough to be worth it, no matter the draft position.
SensFactor
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Whether its Miller or Horvat. They only have 2 years left on their deals including this year. Both could walk from the Rangers as UFAs. Rangers need a first rounder (top 10, not top 3) to give up Laf. and have some security if Miller/Horvat leave. Vancouver gets a #1 overall pick that hasn't found his way in NY so far and someone that has all the tools to be a very good player.
Just A Bit Outside
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I wouldn’t be adding to Horvat in a trade for Lafreniere, Horvat is proven and a great centre well being young still, Lafreniere has way too many question marks around his game. Canucks biggest hole is a shut down RHD for Hughes, we need to fill that hole. We have a lot of skilled young wingers on the Canucks, Lafreniere just adds more to that, we need help on the right side D.
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