Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[belzebob1]

Yeah no, you brought up McDavid right there in the post I quoted. Show me where I brought his contract up before that.

because you are the one saying matthews deserves to be paid more than mcd.

there is no possibility you can justify that

 

[MapleLeafs9]

because you are the one saying matthews deserves to be paid more than mcd.

there is no possibility you can justify that

I said McDavid signed that contract 5 years ago after YOU brought it up LOL.

McDavid is the best player in the world my man, he would not be making 12.5 if he had a chance to renegotiate his contract. And his next contract, he will be signing for loads more than the 13-13.5 Matthews signs for.

 

[belzebob1]

and do not ignore my point that paying that kind of money to a regular season darling does drive up contracts across the league

 

[Boxscore]

A 300k raise after the incredible 4 years he's had on his 2nd contract. Nope.

Just because Dubas gave him a blank check last time doesn't mean Treliving needs to do the same. This cannot be a one-sided deal for Matthews if the Leafs hope to contend for a Cup during his tenure here. If they just give Matthews anything he wants, then Marner next, fine. But we won't win anything significant. I don't know how a fan of the Toronto Maple Leafs can simply endorse paying Matthews anything he wants on any term he wants.

 

[TS Quint]

"Ridiculous contract" to who? Fans of teams that aren't the leafs? He signed that contract with the expectation he would cement himself as the leafs franchise centre and the best goal scorer in the league and he did. He deserves 13+ and will get it.

He still didn't earn it. He's 7th in points over that contract. And if you really want to compare apples to apples and include the next 3 years @ 13.5m to count the 8 years after his entry level like everyone else signs their contracts for its the 2nd highest cap hit in the league. He under performed and will get a raise he doesn't deserve.

 

[belzebob1]

I said McDavid signed that contract 5 years ago after YOU brought it up LOL.

McDavid is the best player in the world my man, he would not be making 12.5 if he had a chance to renegotiate his contract. And his next contract, he will be signing for loads more than the 13-13.5 Matthews signs for.

and mcd could probably gotten more money when he signed his contract.

unlike matthews he tried to give the team the flexability to fill out a team around him

 

[Boxscore]

McDavid is the best player in the world my man, he would not be making 12.5 if he had a chance to renegotiate his contract. And his next contract, he will be signing for loads more than the 13-13.5 Matthews signs for.

Yes, McDavid is the best player in the world. And yes, he will, and should, be paid more than Auston Matthews. However, if McDavid still has not won a Cup, and he is hoping to, he will also need to take less than he "deserves" in order for the Oilers to surround him with enough depth to contend. That's the sacrifice players need to make in a hard cap league if they want to win a Cup. Right or wrong. If it's unfair to the player, they have three choices:

1. Suck it up and take less and commit to winning, then give it your best shot and still make 150+ million playing hockey lol.

2. Sacrifice a shot at winning Cups, be extra greedy, and retire with zero Cups but with 170 million instead of 150+.

3. Speak up at the next NHLPA meeting and push for another lockout until the owners concede on a luxury tax or removal of the cap altogether.

Most superstars ultimately choose #1. If not, Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, Pastrnak, MacKinnon, Hughes, Kucherov, Hedman, etc. would never sign 8 year deals so they could get cap % raises every 3-4 years.

MacKinnon just won a Cup and was up for a new deal. He easily could have leveraged the Avs into paying him 13.5 or 14 mil a pop x 4. What were they going to do, say no? Of course not. But he didn't. He signed for 12.6 x 8 because he knew that was the only way he'd have a chance to keep his core together and hope to win more Cups.

Not all superstars are extra greedy, or care less about winning a Cup, like Matthews.

 

[belzebob1]

so if there is a hockey god i hope you clowns sign him for 3 x $13.5.

by the end of that the arena in arizona will be close or done.

he goes home on a sweetheart retirement 7 x $7

lets the yotes build a team and when they win the cup.........

will toronto hang a banner in the arena?

 

[Metroid]

so if there is a hockey god i hope you clowns sign him for 3 x $13.5.

by the end of that the arena in arizona will be close or done.

he goes home on a sweetheart retirement 7 x $7

lets the yotes build a team and when they win the cup.........

will toronto hang a banner in the arena?

Lol

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Yes, McDavid is the best player in the world. And yes, he will, and should, be paid more than Auston Matthews. However, if McDavid still has not won a Cup, and he is hoping to, he will also need to take less than he "deserves" in order for the Oilers to surround him with enough depth to contend. That's the sacrifice players need to make in a hard cap league if they want to win a Cup. Right or wrong. If it's unfair to the player, they have three choices:

1. Suck it up and take less and commit to winning, then give it your best shot and still make 150+ million playing hockey lol.

2. Sacrifice a shot at winning Cups, be extra greedy, and retire with zero Cups but with 170 million instead of 150+.

3. Speak up at the next NHLPA meeting and push for another lockout until the owners concede on a luxury tax or removal of the cap altogether.

Most superstars ultimately choose #1. If not, Crosby, McDavid, Ovechkin, Pastrnak, MacKinnon, Hughes, Kucherov, Hedman, etc. would never sign 8 year deals so they could get cap % raises every 3-4 years.

MacKinnon just won a Cup and was up for a new deal. He easily could have leveraged the Avs into paying him 13.5 or 14 mil a pop x 4. What were they going to do, say no? Of course not. But he didn't. He signed for 12.6 x 8 because he knew that was the only way he'd have a chance to keep his core together and hope to win more Cups.

Not all superstars are extra greedy, or care less about winning a Cup, like Matthews.

Like Crosby took a paycut with his 17.3% cap hit in 2008 then won a cup in 2009? Like Ovechkin took a paycut with his 18.96% (1.04% away from league max!!!!) cap hit in 2008? 8.7 and 9.53 million don't look like much now, but they're the most massive contracts cap hit % wise in the cap era.

And that's exactly how we will all feel in a few years about Matthews at 13+. He will sign for most in the league at around 15.5-16.5% cap hit which is comparable to his peers, then eventually players will sign for more than Matthews at around the same cap hit % when the cap keeps going up. It's how it works. Matthews is just the next one up.

Like you said earlier, time to make up your mind on the kind of player Matthews is. He isn't just some 1st liner that scores goals, he is a bonafide superstar, the leafs' franchise centre, and deserves whatever he gets.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

He still didn't earn it. He's 7th in points over that contract. And if you really want to compare apples to apples and include the next 3 years @ 13.5m to count the 8 years after his entry level like everyone else signs their contracts for its the 2nd highest cap hit in the league. He under performed and will get a raise he doesn't deserve.

He's 5th in points actually. Wanna guess who the 4 are that are ahead of him and how much money they make?

edit: I'll do it for you since you'll probably avoid it somehow and cry about how Matthews isn't worth 13+.

It's McDavid (makes more), Draisaitl (severely underpaid, everyone knows this), Panarin (makes more), and MacKinnon (makes more).

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

OK so what is the alterative? You're going to trade the most talented player the team has had in like 30-40 years because you didn't want to pay a few hundred K above some arbitrary limit you set in your mind while the cap is set to explode by millions of dollars in the next 5 years?

That's not an option. You negotiate the best you deal you can and if his camp is not willing to budge past a certain point, you sign the contract and move on. No one in their right mind is trading a Matthews level player unless he has given clear indication that he won't play for the team.

Strongly agree with this post. The point that you don't mention is the "downstream" impact that the AM negotiation has on the Marner and Nylander contracts. This isn't the type of deal that happens in a vaccuum with regard to the other key players. The situation you are talking about is essentially kicking the problem down the road where the increase in the cap goes to the "big 3" until JT's contract expires in 2 years.

If AM does sign a 3 year deal, it gets REALLY interesting when that contract expires. If the Leafs haven't had serious play-off success by that point, do you resign AM on the 8 year deal that he's going to demand (if his current negotiations are any indication)?

The Leafs situation is very different from the Oilers. The Oilers have CM/LD who have come up huge in the play-off's, so with the Oilers it's all about adding the other pieces. The Leafs haven't had that play-off success, and their salary structure limits the organization's ability to fill out the roster.

 

[River Meadow]

No way I pay this guy 13.5 million dollars. Toronto can't win in the playoffs and you want to invest a chunk of change in one guy? Try getting a better defense, depth offense and a reliable goalie. Beyond stupid.

Exactly...

He can score 10000 points in the regular season, that's awesome.

But when the games actually count, i.e playoffs, he is a complete no-show.

I would trade this pretender.

 

[EastVillageBlues]

He's 5th in points actually. Wanna guess who the 4 are that are ahead of him and how much money they make?

edit: I'll do it for you since you'll probably avoid it somehow and cry about how Matthews isn't worth 13+.

It's McDavid (makes more), Draisaitl (severely underpaid, everyone knows this), Panarin (makes more), and MacKinnon (makes more).

He has basically laid goose eggs for seven playoffs.

How much evidence do you really need to see that he simply isn't that level of player, at a time when it really counts.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

AM34 is gonna put the cape on and be a hero and a stand up guy for the first time in his entire career , you heard it here first.

So what is your prediction for AAV / term?

 

[BoneDocUK]

So what's the alternative then?

You're going to trade the biggest talent the team has had in 30-40-50 years while he's in his mid-20s because he wouldn't give your a few 100k in discount?

This is the modern NHL, players have rights. They don't have to sign a contract they don't feel is good for them.

Frankly if the cap is going to go up 9-10 million in the next 3-4 years, then it isn't that unreasonable for Matthews to be at 13.5 when he's already at like 11 now.

Would it be nice if he took a discount ... sure. But I don't think it's the mindset of American players to do that when they are playing away from home to begin with. You're not likely getting any big discounts from US born players if you're a Canadian team. It just is what it is.

In 50 years? I'd take prime Dougie G pretty handily over Matthews, and there are a few others in that half century of Leafs greats who might score less but offer more in terms of overall team impact, especially during the POs.

And given the widespread sense that the current Canadian TV deal has been an expensive mistake for Rogers, is there any guarantee that the cap is going to hit 90 million in 3-4 years? Maybe if it's a longer deal that takes him through his prime, but if rumours of a shorter-term deal are accurate, then the Leafs are looking at doing this all over again, and likely paying the same cap % or more than they are now.

Matthews is a great scorer, but this contract isn't without risk, esp given the injury concerns of late.

I'm sure they get it done, but 13.5 makes it harder to sign that supporting cast they seem to need to get over the hump and challenge legitimately for a cup.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

He has basically laid goose eggs for seven playoffs.

How much evidence do you really need to see that he simply isn't that level of player, at a time when it really counts.

I've never watched a leafs series since 2017 and said "wow, Matthews is the reason we lost that series". The only time I was ever agitated Matthews didn't get it done was against Montreal in 2021. But that was a choke job by everyone involved. It's tough to say for the Florida series, Bobrovsky was incredible and brick walled everyone but Vegas.

4 goals in 6 games in 2017 vs WSH as a 19 year old rookie
5 goals in 7 games in 2019 vs BOS
4 goals in 7 games in 2022 vs TB
5 goals in 6 games in 2023 vs TB

Those are elite goal scoring numbers. Never been a problem for me.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Then make up your minds. Do you think he's just a really good goal scorer? Or is he the Maple Leafs franchise centre, the 2016 1st overall pick (has draft pedigree, and has lived up to it), the player that has the most goals in the league since 2016, a 1x Hart, 2x Rocket, 1x Ted Lindsay winner? With the cap now expected to launch up in the coming years after sitting flat for 4 years, does that not command 13+ million to you?

And for the love of god, cups are team achievements so please don't use cups as an argument. McJesus has 0 cups, Crosby would have 0 cups if he didn't have Malkin and Letang.

Pretty sure Crosby won one without Letang

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

He has basically laid goose eggs for seven playoffs.

How much evidence do you really need to see that he simply isn't that level of player, at a time when it really counts.

That's some hyperbole IMO. Agree that he needs to do more in the P/O's, but he'd be far from the first star player who turned it up in the P/O's the 2nd half of his career.

My concern is that by signing him to the rumored $13.5M x 3 deal, it essentially means that the growth in the salary cap will end up going to AM/MM over the next couple years and the Leaf's are that much more top-heavy compared to the other contenders, which means they're that much more reliant on AM/MM to deliver hugely come play-off time.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Pretty sure Crosby won one without Letang

Touche, but you get the point I'm making though no? 1 player doesn't do it all for cups. Otherwise the Oilers would win the cup every year.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Like Crosby took a paycut with his 17.3% cap hit in 2008 then won a cup in 2009? Like Ovechkin took a paycut with his 18.96% (1.04% away from league max!!!!) cap hit in 2008? 8.7 and 9.53 million don't look like much now, but they're the most massive contracts cap hit % wise in the cap era.

And that's exactly how we will all feel in a few years about Matthews at 13+. He will sign for most in the league at around 15.5-16.5% cap hit which is comparable to his peers, then eventually players will sign for more than Matthews at around the same cap hit % when the cap keeps going up. It's how it works. Matthews is just the next one up.

Like you said earlier, time to make up your mind on the kind of player Matthews is. He isn't just some 1st liner that scores goals, he is a bonafide superstar, the leafs' franchise centre, and deserves whatever he gets.

And if Matthews signs for $13.5M x 8 years, people will still probably think he's overpaid, but at least there is some idea of a) he's a legit star #1C and b) he had all of the contractual leverage to get that amount of money.

What he seems to (reportedly) want is to sign to be the highest paid player in the league, and then do it again in 3ish years after McDavid and Draisaitl do their new deals. Seems extremely ego-driven, which I would not be a fan of if I was a Toronto fan.

 

[hamzarocks]

I've never watched a leafs series since 2017 and said "wow, Matthews is the reason we lost that series". The only time I was ever agitated Matthews didn't get it done was against Montreal in 2021. But that was a choke job by everyone involved. It's tough to say for the Florida series, Bobrovsky was incredible and brick walled everyone but Vegas.

4 goals in 6 games in 2017 vs WSH as a 19 year old rookie
5 goals in 7 games in 2019 vs BOS
4 goals in 7 games in 2022 vs TB
5 goals in 6 games in 2023 vs TB

Those are elite goal scoring numbers. Never been a problem for me.

2018 vs Boston

1G + 1A in 7 games

2023 vs Flordia 0G and 2 A in 5 Games

Also his overall playoff production isnt good enough for the caliber of player your making him out to be

His ppg drops drastically in the playoffs

A small drop would be fine but he goes down pretty bad

Mack, Mcdavid, Kuch, Draisaitl, all are able to produce huge come playoffs

2 have 3 cups between them with 97 and 29 looking like they can win if they get goal tending stability.

Matthews needs a bounce back reg season next year and then he has to improve his playoff production

He produces like a good 2C in Kadri who has 44 in 52 playoff games vs a guy like Mackinnon who has 100 in 77 (top 5 player in the league)

 

[River Meadow]

I've never watched a leafs series since 2017 and said "wow, Matthews is the reason we lost that series". The only time I was ever agitated Matthews didn't get it done was against Montreal in 2021. But that was a choke job by everyone involved. It's tough to say for the Florida series, Bobrovsky was incredible and brick walled everyone but Vegas.

4 goals in 6 games in 2017 vs WSH as a 19 year old rookie
5 goals in 7 games in 2019 vs BOS
4 goals in 7 games in 2022 vs TB
5 goals in 6 games in 2023 vs TB

Those are elite goal scoring numbers. Never been a problem for me.

Your barometer and measure of success for a forward is them not "losing the series" for the team?

Brilliant.

 

[Leaf Fans]

so if there is a hockey god i hope you clowns sign him for 3 x $13.5.

by the end of that the arena in arizona will be close or done.

he goes home on a sweetheart retirement 7 x $7

lets the yotes build a team and when they win the cup.........

will toronto hang a banner in the arena?

No, why would the Leafs hang a banner if that were to happen?

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Your barometer and measure of success for a forward is them not "losing the series" for the team?

Brilliant.

No, but that’s what people like to act like Matthews does in the playoffs