Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[Boxscore]

We get him for his prime if he is medium-term... people are complaining about what Karlsson makes but you want to keep Matthews for those years at 13.5, it makes no sense to me.

Auston Matthews is 25. Alex Ovechkin is going to be 38 before the season starts and he literally just scored more goals last season than Matthews. Crosby is going to be 37 and just scored 92 points vs. Matthews 85.

If we feel Matthews is absolutely elite (and should be paid as such) then we should expect him to be an Ovechkin-Crosby level player who is still producing at a borderline elite level well into his 30s. Why would that be such a stretch if Matthews is the player he claims to be?

And, going by that logic, wouldn't you want a player of that ilk long-term so his cap eventually becomes team-friendly while he is still scoring 40-45-85 or more?

I think we need to make up our minds on what level of player Matthews is and run with it. IMO there's way too many people on here who are just looking out for Matthews (instead of the Leafs) and will justify or defend anything he wants without push-back. We all did it up until now, but this time, some fans are starting to question some things.

 

[notbias]

Auston Matthews is 25. Alex Ovechkin is going to be 38 before the season starts and he literally just scored more goals last season than Matthews. Crosby is going to be 37 and just scored 92 points vs. Matthews 85.

If we feel Matthews is absolutely elite (and should be paid as such) then we should expect him to be an Ovechkin-Crosby level player who is still producing at a borderline elite level well into his 30s. Why would that be such a stretch if Matthews is the player he claims to be?

And, going by that logic, wouldn't you want a player of that ilk long-term so his cap eventually becomes team-friendly while he is still scoring 40-45-85 or more?

I think we need to make up our minds on what level of player Matthews is and run with it. IMO there's way too many people on here who are just looking out for Matthews (instead of the Leafs) and will justify or defend anything he wants without push-back. We all did it up until now, but this time, some fans are starting to question some things.

Are we using his injured season or the last healthy season?

Last season he was a top 15C, the year before that, the best in the league.

I don't even know what you're saying... not everyone ages the same. Matthews will be 35 when his contract runs out if he is signed to an 8 year deal.

5 years sounds good to me.

 

[Boxscore]

Are we using his injured season or the last healthy season?

Last season he was a top 15C, the year before that, the best in the league.

I don't even know what you're saying... not everyone ages the same. Matthews will be 35 when his contract runs out if he is signed to an 8 year deal.

5 years sounds good to me.

I think we need to use a combination of criteria.

I don't think it's fair to assume Matthews is a perennial 60 goal, 100+ point Hart Trophy winner, based off 1 season. I also don't think it's fair to assume he's just a 40 goal, 85 point player either. I think we need to factor both in, as well as his play in the playoffs throughout his career, which unfortunately isn't a bright spot. His PPG has dipped to 0.88 in the playoffs throughout his career and the Leafs haven't had any playoff success with him as their best player. Again, this isn't the only criteria, but it absolutely must be a piece.

I've said multiple times, that all things considered, the bar for Matthews has been set by top players like Nate MacKinnon and David Pastrnak. Matthews is in their tier, below McDavid.

Both of their contracts were long-term 8 year deals for 11.75 and 12.6 million respectively. This is the ballpark Matthews should be in with an 8 year commitment. Now, if the Leafs are willing to overpay him and give him 13 or 13.5 -- while it's not ideal -- it's likely manageable if the deal is also for 8 years.

If the deal is only 4 or 5 years, you need to start renegotiating in 3 or 4. That's the problem and it has been a problem with this guy. Just when you think you're about to have a little more cap to spend on nice depth players, here comes 34 or 16 with their hands out, demanding more % of the cap. This approach is not sustainable in a hard cap league, which is why all successful teams who have won anything have signed their superstars to long-term contracts. The Leafs are an anomaly.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Auston Matthews is 25. Alex Ovechkin is going to be 38 before the season starts and he literally just scored more goals last season than Matthews. Crosby is going to be 37 and just scored 92 points vs. Matthews 85.

If we feel Matthews is absolutely elite (and should be paid as such) then we should expect him to be an Ovechkin-Crosby level player who is still producing at a borderline elite level well into his 30s. Why would that be such a stretch if Matthews is the player he claims to be?

And, going by that logic, wouldn't you want a player of that ilk long-term so his cap eventually becomes team-friendly while he is still scoring 40-45-85 or more?

I think we need to make up our minds on what level of player Matthews is and run with it. IMO there's way too many people on here who are just looking out for Matthews (instead of the Leafs) and will justify or defend anything he wants without push-back. We all did it up until now, but this time, some fans are starting to question some things.

Then make up your minds. Do you think he's just a really good goal scorer? Or is he the Maple Leafs franchise centre, the 2016 1st overall pick (has draft pedigree, and has lived up to it), the player that has the most goals in the league since 2016, a 1x Hart, 2x Rocket, 1x Ted Lindsay winner? With the cap now expected to launch up in the coming years after sitting flat for 4 years, does that not command 13+ million to you?

And for the love of god, cups are team achievements so please don't use cups as an argument. McJesus has 0 cups, Crosby would have 0 cups if he didn't have Malkin and Letang.

 

[belzebob1]

i have an idea that would help the leafs and the nhl in general

it is hard to argue that dubas did not wreck your team by deciding to pay 4 forwards half the salary cap.

if you sign him at 13.5 you will end up eating at least 33% of that if you try and trade him.

no other team would pay him that amount.

let him walk after this season, if he finds a team to take him it will not be close to that number and much closer to his actual value.

that tells the players that are left that the gray train is over and you might be able to build a more balanced team

it also stops the leafs from driving up salaries across the nhl for the price of players

 

[MapleLeafs9]

i have an idea that would help the leafs and the nhl in general

it is hard to argue that dubas did not wreck your team by deciding to pay 4 forwards half the salary cap.

if you sign him at 13.5 you will end up eating at least 33% of that if you try and trade him.

no other team would pay him that amount.

let him walk after this season, if he finds a team to take him it will not be close to that number and much closer to his actual value.

that tells the players that are left that the gray train is over and you might be able to build a more balanced team

it also stops the leafs from driving up salaries across the nhl for the price of players

That is so delusional. Teams would absolutely pay Matthews 13.5 if he hits FA. Stop lying to yourself.

 

[TS Quint]

So what's the alternative then?

You're going to trade the biggest talent the team has had in 30-40-50 years while he's in his mid-20s because he wouldn't give your a few 100k in discount?

This is the modern NHL, players have rights. They don't have to sign a contract they don't feel is good for them.

Frankly if the cap is going to go up 9-10 million in the next 3-4 years, then it isn't that unreasonable for Matthews to be at 13.5 when he's already at like 11 now.

Would it be nice if he took a discount ... sure. But I don't think it's the mindset of American players to do that when they are playing away from home to begin with. You're not likely getting any big discounts from US born players if you're a Canadian team. It just is what it is.

His value is $11.9m X 8. Every year less or dollar more is overpayment. At this point it does seem you are right though, the Leafs can and will sign Matthews at all costs.

 

[notbias]

I think we need to use a combination of criteria.

I don't think it's fair to assume Matthews is a perennial 60 goal, 100+ point Hart Trophy winner, based off 1 season. I also don't think it's fair to assume he's just a 40 goal, 85 point player either. I think we need to factor both in, as well as his play in the playoffs throughout his career, which unfortunately isn't a bright spot. His PPG has dipped to 0.88 in the playoffs throughout his career and the Leafs haven't had any playoff success with him as their best player. Again, this isn't the only criteria, but it absolutely must be a piece.

I've said multiple times, that all things considered, the bar for Matthews has been set by top players like Nate MacKinnon and David Pastrnak. Matthews is in their tier, below McDavid.

Both of their contracts were long-term 8 year deals for 11.75 and 12.6 million respectively. This is the ballpark Matthews should be in with an 8 year commitment. Now, if the Leafs are willing to overpay him and give him 13 or 13.5 -- while it's not ideal -- it's likely manageable if the deal is also for 8 years.

If the deal is only 4 or 5 years, you need to start renegotiating in 3 or 4. That's the problem and it has been a problem with this guy. Just when you think you're about to have a little more cap to spend on nice depth players, here comes 34 or 16 with their hands out, demanding more % of the cap. This approach is not sustainable in a hard cap league, which is why all successful teams who have won anything have signed their superstars to long-term contracts. The Leafs are an anomaly.

I don't get the logic in using a season where he played through injuries unless it is something that will affect him moving forward.

There is an outlier here when it comes to goalscoring, it happens to be the year he was injured.

Not sure Pastrnak is comparable, maybe for Marner.

MacKinnon can be comparable.

Matthews should just wait for the new cap to be announced and then sign Mac's deal, it will be about 13.5.

You are advocating for Matthews at 13.5 when he is 32+, is that what we want? I am fine revisiting this in 5 years, we will get all his prime years.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

His value is $11.9m X 8. Every year less or dollar more is overpayment. At this point it does seem you are right though, the Leafs can and will sign Matthews at all costs.

A 300k raise after the incredible 4 years he's had on his 2nd contract. Nope. 13+ is what he deserves and will get.

 

[belzebob1]

That is so delusional. Teams would absolutely pay Matthews 13.5 if he hits FA. Stop lying to yourself.

most gm's do not live in the toronto bubble.

he is not as good as mcdavid for 1 so why should he be paid more?

you are insane if you think any other team would pay him that.

most teams want a shot at the cup, not regular season record setters.

how have the playoffs worked out for toronto?

 

[notbias]

most gm's do not live in the toronto bubble.

he is not as good as mcdavid for 1 so why should he be paid more?

you are insane if you think any other team would pay him that.

most teams want a shot at the cup, not regular season record setters.

how have the playoffs worked out for toronto?

Look up cap hit %, it may shock you that the cap changes.

I bet Matthews could get 15+ on the open market, especially with the cap rising.

He was given the Hart and Lindsay by people mostly outside of Toronto, they know who he is.

The playoffs have worked out better for Toronto than a handful of teams... most have much cheaper players, it's almost like just looking at cap hits and nothing else is dumb...

 

[belzebob1]

Look up cap hit %, it may shock you that the cap changes.

I bet Matthews could get 15+ on the open market, especially with the cap rising.

He was given the Hart and Lindsay by people mostly outside of Toronto, they know who he is.

The playoffs have worked out better for Toronto than a handful of teams... most have much cheaper players, it's almost like just looking at cap hits and nothing else is dumb...

you are right on one statement.

other gm's know the player he is....one that disapears in the playoffs

 

[MapleLeafs9]

most gm's do not live in the toronto bubble.

he is not as good as mcdavid for 1 so why should he be paid more?

you are insane if you think any other team would pay him that.

most teams want a shot at the cup, not regular season record setters.

how have the playoffs worked out for toronto?

More delusion. McDavid signed that contract 5 years ago, he would sign for like 15-16 if he signed today. And yes, teams will sign will sign Matthews to 13.5 per if he hits FA. It's not even disputable. Sharks themselves tried to sign Tavares to 7x13M in 2018. Yawn more leafs playoffs woes shots.

 

[Funk21]

Are we using his injured season or the last healthy season?

Last season he was a top 15C, the year before that, the best in the league.

I don't even know what you're saying... not everyone ages the same. Matthews will be 35 when his contract runs out if he is signed to an 8 year deal.

5 years sounds good to me.

Austin Matthews was never the best C in the league since he was drafted, he just so happen to win an award because he scored 60 plus goals in a season. McDavid statistically was the far better player. Always has been and likely will continue to be.

You defend a 5 year deal because because he would be 35 when that 8 year deal ends (implying he will be old and likely terrible) but in the same paragraph you state not all players age the same. Look if Matthews is taking 11.5-12 million per on a 5 year deal with us having the ability to trade him at any time then sure happy to sign that deal. If he wants 5 year contract, with 90%+ upfront, full NMC and 12.6+ then I have issues.

 

[belzebob1]

More delusion. McDavid signed that contract 5 years ago, he would sign for like 15-16 if he signed today. And yes, teams will sign will sign Matthews to 13.5 per if he hits FA. It's not even disputable. Sharks themselves tried to sign Tavares to 7x13M in 2018. Yawn more leafs playoffs woes shots.

and matthews cannot carry mcdavid's jock strap

trying to say they are comparable players is just nonsense

 

[MapleLeafs9]

and matthews cannot carry mcdavid's jock strap

trying to say they are comparable players is just nonsense

Who said that? Everyone knows McDavid is alone in the S++ tier at this point

 

[TS Quint]

A 300k raise after the incredible 4 years he's had on his 2nd contract. Nope. 13+ is what he deserves and will get.

Using his ridiculous contract as the bar of what he should be paid on his next is the problem I the first place. If you mean it's likely Matthews agent is going to use it and the Leafs are dumb enough to agree then yes.

But as for where he fits in the NHL market $11.9 X 8 years. Every dollar more or year less is an overpayment.

 

[notbias]

you are right on one statement.

other gm's know the player he is....one that disapears in the playoffs

Top 20 in PPG (1.00) in the playoffs for the last 3 years...

ahead of: Hughes, Hubeardeau, Pavelski, ROR, Kadri, Ovechkin, Aho, Robertson, Connor, Kopitar, Point, Barkov, Bergeron, Giroux, Stamkos, Stone, Suzuki, Hall, Panarin, Barzal, Tarasenko, Kaprizov, Caufield, Nichuskin, Hischier, PLD, Thomas, Svechnikov.... the list goes on.

I'd hate to see what other GMs think of all these players.

Austin Matthews was never the best C in the league since he was drafted, he just so happen to win an award because he scored 60 plus goals in a season. McDavid statistically was the far better player. Always has been and likely will continue to be.

You defend a 5 year deal because because he would be 35 when that deal ends (implying he will be old and likely terrible) but in the same paragraph you state not all players age the same. Look if Matthews is taking 11.5-12 million per on a 5 year deal with us having the ability to trade him at any time then sure happy to sign that deal. If he wants 5 year contract, with 90%+ upfront, full NMC and 12.6+ then I have issues.

I guess the players and writers disagree, but to each their own.

 

[belzebob1]

Who said that? Everyone knows McDavid is alone in the S++ tier at this point

you are the one that brought mcdavid's contract into the discussion.

warms my heart to see the furious backpedalling now

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Using his ridiculous contract as the bar of what he should be paid on his next is the problem I the first place. If you mean it's likely Matthews agent is going to use it and the Leafs are dumb enough to agree then yes.

But as for where he fits in the NHL market $11.9 X 8 years. Every dollar more or year less is an overpayment.

"Ridiculous contract" to who? Fans of teams that aren't the leafs? He signed that contract with the expectation he would cement himself as the leafs franchise centre and the best goal scorer in the league and he did. He deserves 13+ and will get it.

 

[belzebob1]

"Ridiculous contract" to who? Fans of teams that aren't the leafs? He signed that contract with the expectation he would cement himself as the leafs franchise centre and the best goal scorer in the league and he did. He deserves 13+ and will get it.

the problem is most teams value playoff success. how is that working out for your team? past the first round once in seven years.

my team, the jets, made the conference final just a few years ago.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

most gm's do not live in the toronto bubble.

he is not as good as mcdavid for 1 so why should he be paid more?

you are insane if you think any other team would pay him that.

most teams want a shot at the cup, not regular season record setters.

how have the playoffs worked out for toronto?

you are the one that brought mcdavid's contract into the discussion.

warms my heart to see the furious backpedalling now

Yeah no, you brought up McDavid right there in the post I quoted. Show me where I brought his contract up before that.

 

[notbias]

the problem is most teams value playoff success. how is that working out for your team? past the first round once in seven years.

my team, the jets, made the conference final just a few years ago.

And now they are doing terrible and they have good contracts... what is your point?

 

[MapleLeafs9]

the problem is most teams value playoff success. how is that working out for your team? past the first round once in seven years.

my team, the jets, made the conference final just a few years ago.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWNNNNNNNNN

 

[TS Quint]

More delusion. McDavid signed that contract 5 years ago, he would sign for like 15-16 if he signed today. And yes, teams will sign will sign Matthews to 13.5 per if he hits FA. It's not even disputable. Sharks themselves tried to sign Tavares to 7x13M in 2018. Yawn more leafs playoffs woes shots.

Yeah, the Sharks are full of good decisions, where have those decisions lead them? The same team that gave up Stutzle, Norris, DeMelo etc. for Karlsson. Maybe the Leafs and their fans might be better off than setting their expectations so low. Or maybe not, seems no one is disappointed by their mediocre outcomes.