Kyle Dubas vs JFJ

[mydnyte]

JFJ and not even close... The team we had last year was fantastic. Marner didn't show up in the playoffs. If he plays like Kucherov we play in the finals as well.

Giving Marner his contract and the Foligno trade were bad, but for the most part Dubas moves have made the team much better. Traded for Hyman, traded for Muzzin, signed Brodie, traded for Campbell. Should be a top 5-8 team again next year.

JFJ was just awful and made awful moves.

sometimes a trade is good, and the right move, but, it just doesnt work out. ...i.e. Owen Nolan trade was the right move, but failed miserably, Brian Leetch was a great trade, but, then we go into lockdown and lose the last year of the deal, so, another 'bad' trade, except that it wasnt a 'bad' trade, just the circumstances made it that way.
if Foligno doesnt get injured, maybe we're praising how good a deal it was instead, but, it didnt turn out that way, but, the deal itself was the right move.

 

[mydnyte]

Dubas.

JFJ team didn't have the talent like this. He drafted extremely well

Rask trade was awful but there was no way of knowing Pogge was gonna flop. He had a good as chance as Rask to be an NHL star

Also back then u didn't have these types of FA available. He didn't have Tavares to pick from

JFJ wanted to do a teardown and rebuild, and was told No ...and he folded like a cheap suit.
that alone is why he's worse, when you are the Boss you need to be the Boss!

 

[fahad203]

JFJ wanted to do a teardown and rebuild, and was told No ...and he folded like a cheap suit.
that alone is why he's worse, when you are the Boss you need to be the Boss!

TML boss are always shareholders. Simple as that.

JFJ was never the boss especially Richard Peddie era. Even when JFJ was around everyone knew Pat Quinn was the boss

That's what people don't get around here how easy Dubas has compare to the scenario JFJ found himself in
Not to mention the muskoka 5.

He didn't fold like cheap suit. You want to question a lot about JFJ fine, be as that may. But JFJ had power struggle here from day 1 with Pat Quinn. JFJ didn't get the benefit of warming up like Dubas did with Lou and Hunter here. He didn't get to be an associate GM then take over and prior to that with Marlies GM

Being a gm goes far than just drafting and signing players. When you are set up to fail like JFJ then you make a lot mistakes trying to correct them. Dubas took over a team with 4 potential superstars, he got his coach, he got his staff, he got to hire Marlies GM.

Yet his coach sucks
His coaching staff sucks, can't put up a pp together
his Marlies are horrible

 

[17 Clark]

TML boss are always shareholders. Simple as that.

JFJ was never the boss especially Richard Peddie era. Even when JFJ was around everyone knew Pat Quinn was the boss

That's what people don't get around here how easy Dubas has compare to the scenario JFJ found himself in
Not to mention the muskoka 5.

He didn't fold like cheap suit. You want to question a lot about JFJ fine, be as that may. But JFJ had power struggle here from day 1 with Pat Quinn. JFJ didn't get the benefit of warming up like Dubas did with Lou and Hunter here. He didn't get to be an associate GM then take over and prior to that with Marlies GM

Being a gm goes far than just drafting and signing players. When you are set up to fail like JFJ then you make a lot mistakes trying to correct them. Dubas took over a team with 4 potential superstars, he got his coach, he got his staff, he got to hire Marlies GM.

Yet his coach sucks
His coaching staff sucks, can't put up a pp together
his Marlies are horrible

Yet his boy fan club would go through the wall for him he sunk the nail in his own grave I remember his comments in the first year negotiations are tough I don’t wanna make it hard on the players Way to show your cards that’s what happens when you hire a GM that wants to be friends with everybody it’s not a friendship it’s a business

 

[mydnyte]

TML boss are always shareholders. Simple as that.

JFJ was never the boss especially Richard Peddie era. Even when JFJ was around everyone knew Pat Quinn was the boss

That's what people don't get around here how easy Dubas has compare to the scenario JFJ found himself in
Not to mention the muskoka 5.

He didn't fold like cheap suit. You want to question a lot about JFJ fine, be as that may. But JFJ had power struggle here from day 1 with Pat Quinn. JFJ didn't get the benefit of warming up like Dubas did with Lou and Hunter here. He didn't get to be an associate GM then take over and prior to that with Marlies GM

Being a gm goes far than just drafting and signing players. When you are set up to fail like JFJ then you make a lot mistakes trying to correct them. Dubas took over a team with 4 potential superstars, he got his coach, he got his staff, he got to hire Marlies GM.

Yet his coach sucks
His coaching staff sucks, can't put up a pp together
his Marlies are horrible

- i think we need to blow up the team and rebuild
- No, retool
- but, i dont think a retool is the right direction
- No Retool!
- okay, we'll retool

...if you cant stand your ground, (or they wont let you) you should quit or be fired for being too weak willed.
-i want to trade for Raycroft, he's your 3rd string goalie now
- i want Rask
- how about Poggie
- i want Rask
- okay

he was a disaster as a GM and thats why he never got another GM job offer

I'm not a Dubas supported actually, but, didnt his Marlies win a championship?

 

[fahad203]

- i think we need to blow up the team and rebuild
- No, retool
- but, i dont think a retool is the right direction
- No Retool!
- okay, we'll retool

...if you cant stand your ground, (or they wont let you) you should quit or be fired for being too weak willed.
-i want to trade for Raycroft, he's your 3rd string goalie now
- i want Rask
- how about Poggie
- i want Rask
- okay

he was a disaster as a GM and thats why he never got another GM job offer

I'm not a Dubas supported actually, but, didnt his Marlies win a championship?

You know even Boston admitted they wanted Pogge right?
They asked for Pogge specially

Even now, if you line up Pogge vs Rask side by side, you'll pick Pogge
There is absolute no reason for you to pick Rask

I didn't say he never made questionable calls. We all know he did. Muskoka 5 loved Quinn. They didn't want to part with that team and I loved them for that. Those guys were true Leafs
But they didn't make it easy for JFJ

JFJ was bad, he still can't get a job in NHL as a GM. But in my opinion he didn't get the resources like Dubas has

 

[ACC1224]

You know even Boston admitted they wanted Pogge right?
They asked for Pogge specially

Even now, if you line up Pogge vs Rask side by side, you'll pick Pogge
There is absolute no reason for you to pick Rask

I didn't say he never made questionable calls. We all know he did. Muskoka 5 loved Quinn. They didn't want to part with that team and I loved them for that. Those guys were true Leafs
But they didn't make it easy for JFJ

JFJ was bad, he still can't get a job in NHL as a GM. But in my opinion he didn't get the resources like Dubas has

Where did they admit that? I had always heard they wanted Rask so he could mentor under their other Finnish goalie.

 

[Kazparov]

Anyone saying Dubas here wasn't alive or paying attention during JFJ

 

[rumman]

No one is even talking about the Muskoka 5.

Perhaps we are going through a Muskoka 4 (The New and Improved Next Generation) era...

2.0 for sure……

 

[rumman]

Where did they admit that? I had always heard they wanted Rask so he could mentor under their other Finnish goalie.

At the time Pogge was 1A, Rask was 1B. Who knew Pogge would s**t the bed? It was a bad trade, no doubt about it, but it would have been just as bad if it was Pogge.

 

[The CyNick]

No one is even talking about the Muskoka 5.

Perhaps we are going through a Muskoka 4 (The New and Improved Next Generation) era...

I think the issue is this organization (and this goes beyond the current regime) feels the need to make everyone feel comfortable and wants to come off first class. Almost like a desperate dude trying to impress a woman with a fancy car.

You always hear about how these GTA or Ontario kids love coming in here and perform for friends and family when they play the Leafs. But then why do they give out NMCs and crazy front loaded bonuses to actually play here?

I would like to see a regime take a stand and say if you really want to play in this market, if the crest really means something to you, then you have to prove it. Don't offer top dollar, don't give out incentives, make it appear like the player is getting something by playing here. If that's not good enough, they shouldnt wear the sweater and find players who will.
This organization has had a bottom mentality and it needs to change

 

[Twine Tickler]

This is not even f***ing close. JFJ had one of the worst tenures in NHL history. KD is getting spit roasted by enigmatic, egocentric kids that want things to come easy. Ones that are more concerned getting ringside tickets to UFC fights over being in the cup final. What the f*** was KD supposed to do when he took over??? Was he supposed to know that Mitch, Willy, and Auston were never going to be able to do shit in the playoffs? was he supposed to expect they would never grow from the scars of their defeats?? I am pretty sure none of us on hear would have said that 3 years ago....

If Lou were here, we would have the same results. You will never win when your best players don't show up in the playoffs. Period. We have received 1 good showing in Willy in 5 playoff attempts, and ZERO good showings in 5 playoff attempts with Mitch and Auston. We could have Stevie f***ing Y as our GM and the results would have been the same.

KD has put together a very very good roster every year. Addresses most, if not all our team deficiencies from the year prior, and the results are the same because the players we win with in the regular season (Mitch and Auston) are less than regular in the post season....

We need to stop making excuses for these players. They single handedly can win any game they play, yet they've not done that once in the post season since they've been here. Say what you will about these contracts, its the only ammo KD haters have, but you cannot tell me we didn't have the depth to go all the way this year.

The Foligno trade was the going rate at the deadline. And many teams were willing to pay a similar price. all of which included a 1st. Thats kind of what happens when you try and win with a team you believe in. In fact, probably 97% of us on here seemed to think this team was ready to win this year in March, was KD not supposed to as well?

GTFO with that hindsight shit, no GM is perfect when it comes to transactions. KD has done a good job. Direct your anger towards the players on the ice who no show

 

[mydnyte]

At the time Pogge was 1A, Rask was 1B. Who knew Pogge would s**t the bed? It was a bad trade, no doubt about it, but it would have been just as bad if it was Pogge.

Pogge was never 1A ...it was always Rask, but, Pogge had just won a gold, and Rask was still considered to be 2 years away, and the Don Cherry effect is why Rask was dealt, along with blind stupidity since Raycroft was Boston's 3rd string goalie at that point, a few years removed from his one 'good' season.

 

[Lightsol]

I wasn't sure whether you meant Marner or Tavares, but I knew it was one of them. Hence my joke about Nylander.

Actually, I like Nylander, and have no problem with his contract; although I didn't like the process, and think it's maybe 1M high.

Marner is overpaid, probably by 4M.

As far as I'm concerned, we are overpaying Tavares by 11M, as we should never have signed him. He was worth about 8M for the first couple of years, but he'll soon be a third line winger (if we can afford anyone to replace him at 2C), worth about 4M.

By the way I well aware of the differences between RFA and UFA. And despite some extenuating circumstances, I still think JFJ was worse, but Dubas isn't finished yet, so I'll reserve final judgement.

So if you actually think about your statement here, you're arguing that our 90-100 point setup winger should be making LESS than the 70-point winger who finally had a good playoff after four straight duds? Because doing your calculations says Nylander should be making $8 and Marner should be making $7.

 

[The CyNick]

Anyone saying Dubas here wasn't alive or paying attention during JFJ

We were. Care to elaborate on your point?

 

[The CyNick]

Pogge was never 1A ...it was always Rask, but, Pogge had just won a gold, and Rask was still considered to be 2 years away, and the Don Cherry effect is why Rask was dealt, along with blind stupidity since Raycroft was Boston's 3rd string goalie at that point, a few years removed from his one 'good' season.

Pogge was always seen as the can't miss prospect of the two.

What is the Don Cherry effect?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Pogge was always seen as the can't miss prospect of the two.

What is the Don Cherry effect?

Rask was a one man show for Finland before his draft. Just a battler. You could tell he was good. Pogge was on a stacked Team Canada and they used that as the evaluation? That was so beyond stupid even at the time trading Rask.
Dubas is building a house of cards and it’s getting windy. I can’t stand the idiot. Shinnyhan can go away too. Half the posters on this biard could build a better team than these incompetent tools. I’m not kidding i believe it.

 

[bodechek]

At the time Pogge was 1A, Rask was 1B. Who knew Pogge would s**t the bed? It was a bad trade, no doubt about it, but it would have been just as bad if it was Pogge.

Rask at the time was considered the best goalie outside of the NHL. Pogge getting the shutouts and a gold medal is the perfect example of how the WJHC tournament is more hype than substance. Pogge is not the only victim, Jamie Storr is another example

 

[TDotMassive]

Which one?

Rask for Raycroft straight up, 1 for 1. Worst Leafs trade of the past 25-30 years.

He made the trade after Raycroft had posted a garbage season and Rask was maybe the best player at the WJC. I remember waking up, reading the paper and thinking &$%_#%@!!!!!

 

[TDotMassive]

Two other solid contenders are the Courtnall trade and the Kessel trade.

But Dubas has the worst UFA signing.

I still give JFK the edge.

I gave both those trades consideration, but giving Rask away to Boston of all teams... ffs it still irks me.

 

[ottomaddox]

Rask for Raycroft straight up, 1 for 1. Worst Leafs trade of the past 25-30 years.

He made the trade after Raycroft had posted a garbage season and Rask was maybe the best player at the WJC. I remember waking up, reading the paper and thinking &$%_#%@!!!!!

It didn't seem like a bad trade at the time.

Leafs drafted Pogge, and Raycroft was a Calder winner the year before.

In hindsight it was a bad trade, but no one thought Pogge would fall apart at the same time.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Dubas and JFJ have one thing in common, image perception. Dubas wants to be liked, acts like a good guy who is smarter than most hockey fans/people based on his analytics obsession, how he darts around questions.... at the cost of being a complete phony, evading all important questions. He tries to back the media off by brown nosing them, calling them by first name to try and charm them..... I respected Burke for being transparent, showed his different moods, was an honest person. All I want is a playoff round win for now.

 

[TDotMassive]

You know even Boston admitted they wanted Pogge right?
They asked for Pogge specially

Even now, if you line up Pogge vs Rask side by side, you'll pick Pogge
There is absolute no reason for you to pick Rask

I didn't say he never made questionable calls. We all know he did. Muskoka 5 loved Quinn. They didn't want to part with that team and I loved them for that. Those guys were true Leafs
But they didn't make it easy for JFJ

JFJ was bad, he still can't get a job in NHL as a GM. But in my opinion he didn't get the resources like Dubas has

Neither player should have been open for discussion. Goalies are hit and miss, if you have 2 stars in junior, don't trade either one until you're sure who can play. Raycroft had a crap year before the trade... JFJ made a very poor bet he would come back to form, in an attempt to speed up a half baked rebuild. He got burned badly when Pogge busted and Rask became an all star... but even worse, it was obvious to everyone (including Boston) that Raycroft wasn't the goalie of the future and was a bust in progress when we traded for him and handed Boston their starting goalie for the next decade.

 

[TDotMassive]

It didn't seem like a bad trade at the time.

Leafs drafted Pogge, and Raycroft was a Calder winner the year before.

In hindsight it was a bad trade, but no one thought Pogge would fall apart at the same time.

Raycroft was Calder winner 2 years earlier, he SUCKED badly the year before he was traded to us. He had at .879 save% the year before we made the trade. I shed a tear that day.

 

[rumman]

Rask at the time was considered the best goalie outside of the NHL. Pogge getting the shutouts and a gold medal is the perfect example of how the WJHC tournament is more hype than substance. Pogge is not the only victim, Jamie Storr is another example

In your opinion.