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Kyle Dubas vs JFJ

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Who is worse?

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    224
  • Poll closed .
ACC1224 said:
That was on Dubas, Lou Lam had already moved on by that point.
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Well was it Dubas or Lou that signed Marleau to that 3x deal?
Everyone knew we needed to dump cap to sign Marner.
So how exactly was it Dubas fault? I mean I guess he could have said no and kept Marleau. let Marner sit. Fans would have rioted if that happened.
The price to move Marleau was expensive and that pick was expected to be a late one. That's the way she goes.
 
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Arthur Morgan said:
I see reading is not your strong suit my friend. I said his drafting so far on paper looks good, his trades have been pretty good for the most part. his signings have been decent since the Matthews/Marner ones were completed.
it really hasnt been long enough yet to get a real grasp on the quality of his drafting but has look good so far

He took the team backwards? because it looked like last year he improved in alot of areas we lacked in such a depth, Defense and Leadership
we were doing good but our Stars didnt show up in the playoffs.
other than signing our kids to too much money which was like 3 years ago now. what has he really done that was so poor?

moving the 1st to rid our selves of Marleau can be blamed on Lou. the Price was high every team knew why they needed to dump that contract and that was the price. just sucks it ended up being Seth Jarvis
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Inherited a franchise point setting, playoff team that went to game seven.

Year 1: went to game 7in first round = no progress

Year 2: went to game 5 in a "qualifying round" which meant they didn't qualify for 16 team "first round". = regression

Year 3: blew 3-1 series lead and lost in first round = no progress

So that's 2 years of zero progress and 1 year of regression vs where he started. You would expect progression naturally because the young stars are maturing. Yet there's been ZERO progress on the ice in terms of results.
 
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Arthur Morgan said:
Well was it Dubas or Lou that signed Marleau to that 3x deal?
Everyone knew we needed to dump cap to sign Marner.
So how exactly was it Dubas fault? I mean I guess he could have said no and kept Marleau. let Marner sit. Fans would have rioted if that happened.
The price to move Marleau was expensive and that pick was expected to be a late one. That's the way she goes.
Click to expand...

Many blame Loue, some blame Dubas but the actual blame should go to the guy who approved both deals.
 
Arthur Morgan said:
Well was it Dubas or Lou that signed Marleau to that 3x deal?
Everyone knew we needed to dump cap to sign Marner.
So how exactly was it Dubas fault? I mean I guess he could have said no and kept Marleau. let Marner sit. Fans would have rioted if that happened.
The price to move Marleau was expensive and that pick was expected to be a late one. That's the way she goes.
Click to expand...

Did Dubas know the Marleau contract existed when he took the job?
 
Arthur Morgan said:
Well was it Dubas or Lou that signed Marleau to that 3x deal?
Everyone knew we needed to dump cap to sign Marner.
So how exactly was it Dubas fault? I mean I guess he could have said no and kept Marleau. let Marner sit. Fans would have rioted if that happened.
The price to move Marleau was expensive and that pick was expected to be a late one. That's the way she goes.
Click to expand...
Lou signed it and Dubas paid the 1st to get rid of it. If the cap isn't maxed out Marleau sits in the press box/plays 4th line minutes.
 
The CyNick said:
Inherited a franchise point setting, playoff team that went to game seven.

Year 1: went to game 7in first round = no progress

Year 2: went to game 5 in a "qualifying round" which meant they didn't qualify for 16 team "first round". = regression

Year 3: blew 3-1 series lead and lost in first round = no progress

So that's 2 years of zero progress and 1 year of regression vs where he started. You would expect progression naturally because the young stars are maturing. Yet there's been ZERO progress on the ice in terms of results.
Click to expand...

Results don't matter as long as the cash register keeps cha-chinging.
 
The CyNick said:
Inherited a franchise point setting, playoff team that went to game seven.

Year 1: went to game 7in first round = no progress

Year 2: went to game 5 in a "qualifying round" which meant they didn't qualify for 16 team "first round". = regression

Year 3: blew 3-1 series lead and lost in first round = no progress

So that's 2 years of zero progress and 1 year of regression vs where he started. You would expect progression naturally because the young stars are maturing. Yet there's been ZERO progress on the ice in terms of results.
Click to expand...
Yeah well. JFJ was still worse. None of us including Dubas expected Marner and Matthews to be duds in the playoffs
I mean Dubas isnt the best GM. he's not incredible but comparing to JFJ to me is crazy.
JFJ was the worst. atleast we have good players on bad contracts we could still prob move if we wanted to
JFJ locked the team down on 5 players who we could trade but would not leave no matter what.
the years were worse back then too. atleast now we have somewhat of a good team still that gives us hope even if that hope is faded
 
The CyNick said:
Did Dubas know the Marleau contract existed when he took the job?
Click to expand...
Has to be the dumbest comment I have read today. congratulations
Why would it matter if he knew about it when he took the job?
Like you would have done any better.
Thats what the price was to move Marleau so we could sign Marner.
Do you think teams just line up to help us whenever we need it?
Why would a team take less so Leafs could dump 6+M and get a core player signed?
Team's don't look to help for free or cheap and with that situation I wouldn't have helped another team without getting their 1st imo.
 
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Arthur Morgan said:
Yeah well. JFJ was still worse. None of us including Dubas expected Marner and Matthews to be duds in the playoffs
I mean Dubas isnt the best GM. he's not incredible but comparing to JFJ to me is crazy.
JFJ was the worst. atleast we have good players on bad contracts we could still prob move if we wanted to
JFJ locked the team down on 5 players who we could trade but would not leave no matter what.
the years were worse back then too. atleast now we have somewhat of a good team still that gives us hope even if that hope is faded
Click to expand...

So Dubas couldn't predict Matthews and Marner would play gutless but JFJ should have predicted that Calder winner Raycroft would turn junk and highly touted prospect Justin Pogge would turn into junk?

The job of the GM is to make evaluations on what players will do in the future. Dubas bet on 4 forwards eating half the cap was a strategy that would bring one or multiple Cups here. So far that looks like an awful call with no signs of turning around. He's handcuffed the organization from making improvements. And worse, he left the door open to lose the stars for nothing in the coming years.

JFJ wasn't gifted with multiple franchise players approaching their prime. It's night and day what they started with.
 
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The CyNick said:
So Dubas couldn't predict Matthews and Marner would play gutless but JFJ should have predicted that Calder winner Raycroft would turn junk and highly touted prospect Justin Pogge would turn into junk?

The job of the GM is to make evaluations on what players will do in the future. Dubas bet on 4 forwards eating half the cap was a strategy that would bring one or multiple Cups here. So far that looks like an awful call with no signs of turning around. He's handcuffed the organization from making improvements. And worse, he left the door open to lose the stars for nothing in the coming years.

JFJ wasn't gifted with multiple franchise players approaching their prime. It's night and day what they started with.
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I forgot that JFJ did the Rask trade more proof he was worse. I don't remember too many people being happy we moved Rask for Raycroft.
I was excited to see him and Pogge battle it out for starter. I mean Rask made I think 51 saves in the Gold Game in WJC and lost to Pogge getting another shutout. was amazing then we traded for Raycrap who was already looked like he was declining. most fans knew it was a mistake. JFJ was the worst
 
Arthur Morgan said:
I see reading is not your strong suit my friend. I said his drafting so far on paper looks good, his trades have been pretty good for the most part. his signings have been decent since the Matthews/Marner ones were completed.
it really hasnt been long enough yet to get a real grasp on the quality of his drafting but has look good so far

He took the team backwards? because it looked like last year he improved in alot of areas we lacked in such a depth, Defense and Leadership
we were doing good but our Stars didnt show up in the playoffs.
other than signing our kids to too much money which was like 3 years ago now. what has he really done that was so poor?

moving the 1st to rid our selves of Marleau can be blamed on Lou. the Price was high every team knew why they needed to dump that contract and that was the price. just sucks it ended up being Seth Jarvis
Click to expand...
What G.M in their right mind takes Thornton over Perry. Just for one little example. If he’s fixing character needs you sign Perry who plays tough as nail for a old coot. Thornton was a disaster never mind disappointment.
Simple little moves like that don’t register with this guys nice team persona. Fire the f**** right out of this guy. He has drug the team down the garden path and they are all enjoying the lovely smells and butterflies. The same butterflies and roses they play like ;)))))

It’s crazy how mistakes snowball as Perry took Tavares out. This guy needs to go
 
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Wafflewhipper said:
What G.M in their right mind takes Thornton over Perry. Just for one little example. If he’s fixing character needs you sign Perry who plays tough as nail for a old coot. Thornton was a disaster never mind disappointment.
Simple little moves like that don’t register with this guys nice team persona. Fire the f**** right out of this guy. He has drug the team down the garden path and they are all enjoying the lovely smells and butterflies. The same butterflies and roses they play like ;)))))

It’s crazy how mistakes snowball as Perry took Tavares out. This guy needs to go
Click to expand...
I agree 100%
I dunno if firing him is the best option right now though. his trades have been good
unless there's a replacement for him that makes sense.
right now after that collapse I dont care if they change the entire team. I just hope we dont do something we will regret in a year
 
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The only difference is jfj had less to work with so the long term damage was minimal. Otherwise both have completely botched their first jobs.
 
Dubas, like the fergler is stuck in mortgaging the future just to keep his head above water.
Hopefully the leafs miss the post season next year so the shills cant save his ass again.
 
Arthur Morgan said:
I agree 100%
I dunno if firing him is the best option right now though. his trades have been good
unless there's a replacement for him that makes sense.
right now after that collapse I dont care if they change the entire team. I just hope we dont do something we will regret in a year
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The Kadri trade will have Zero to show for it when Kerfoot is taken by the Krackheads :))))))). He lost a pick with that too, a 3rd i think it was.
That trade is on Shinnyhan to. He approved it. Neither were what we needed at the time. Dubas makes his butter melt before its soft enough for him.
Made some good deals,made some good draft picks, lost first round with choker teams that can’t handle the raised intensity. There are other good things and bad things but bottom line is his teams lose in the playoffs for a very well known reason over and over.
 
Dubas took over a far better organization than JFJ did. Ferguson done more with less so take that for what its worth. Both are failures. The question is who is the worst failure. Dubas is the worse failure because he has done less with more.

John Tavares might be done with his concussion and it saves his a$$. JT has $50,000,000 of his 77 million contract in his pocket already. That was a colossal knee to the head he took. What’s the word on JT anyways i hope he is ok
 
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Wafflewhipper said:
Dubas took over a far better organization than JFJ did. Ferguson done more with less so take that for what its worth. Both are failures. The question is who is the worst failure. Dubas is the worse failure because he has done less with more.
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Disagree. JFJ turned a playoff team into a non-playoff team. Whatever faults Dubas has, that makes him better by comparison.
 
Dubas has done a good job with trades. His contract negotiations on mid-low end players has been strong. His contract negotiations on top-tier players (Matthews/Marner) are very poor and may very well result in the undoing of our entire rebuild in his early tenure, that's still TBD however.

JFJ was horrid at everything.
 
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