Kyle Dubas vs JFJ

[acrobaticgoalie]

Pogge was always seen as the can't miss prospect of the two.

What is the Don Cherry effect?

How do you figure that? Rask was a fairly high 1st round pick who had great numbers every year and was named best goalie at the WJC, even with Pogge's outstanding tournament. Have a look at the Finn's roster that year. Rask was all alone.
Tuukka Rask at eliteprospects.com

Pogge had poor to very average numbers in Junior leading up to his 19 yr old season where he had a great year and then God like numbers at the WJC.
Justin Pogge at eliteprospects.com

 

[The CyNick]

How do you figure that? Rask was a fairly high 1st round pick who had great numbers every year and was named best goalie at the WJC, even with Pogge's outstanding tournament. Have a look at the Finn's roster that year. Rask was all alone.
Tuukka Rask at eliteprospects.com

Pogge had poor to very average numbers in Junior leading up to his 19 yr old season where he had a great year and then God like numbers at the WJC.
Justin Pogge at eliteprospects.com

I liked Rask better at the time, and I know he was highly thought of. What I am saying is that in the market, most people expected Pogge to be #1.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I liked Rask better at the time, and I know he was highly thought of. What I am saying is that in the market, most people expected Pogge to be #1.

I'm guessing that when the other poster mentioned the Don Cherry effect, he is talking about his bias towards Canadians. In this market in 2006 a lot of people would take everything Cherry said as gospel. So of course if a Canadian goalie puts up a monster performance playing for Team Canada he was gonna be all over HNIC talking about how he is the Leafs goalie of the future.

 

[notDatsyuk]

So if you actually think about your statement here, you're arguing that our 90-100 point setup winger should be making LESS than the 70-point winger who finally had a good playoff after four straight duds? Because doing your calculations says Nylander should be making $8 and Marner should be making $7.

Nylander is making 6.9M, and I said that was maybe 1M too much.

How do you get me saying I think he should get 8M out of that?

 

[mydnyte]

Pogge was always seen as the can't miss prospect of the two.

What is the Don Cherry effect?

CDN = Good
Euro = Bad

 

[mydnyte]

I'm guessing that when the other poster mentioned the Don Cherry effect, he is talking about his bias towards Canadians. In this market in 2006 a lot of people would take everything Cherry said as gospel. So of course if a Canadian goalie puts up a monster performance playing for Team Canada he was gonna be all over HNIC talking about how he is the Leafs goalie of the future.

...and he was, and public opinion was with him, as Rask was an unknown/unseen distant prospect. JFJ was an idiot, Rask was the best pick he ever made, and screwed the pooch.

 

[Trapper]

Dubas is a genius really.
Where else can you serve people the same thing and convince them it’s something different.
Yes please.

 

[The CyNick]

CDN = Good
Euro = Bad

That's a meme. Cherry liked players from any country as long as they play the right way.

He was a booster for Canadian hockey development, because wait for it... he is Canadian... and wait for it, we produce the best talent in the world hands down... shocking, but all true.

 

[mydnyte]

That's a meme. Cherry liked players from any country as long as they play the right way.

He was a booster for Canadian hockey development, because wait for it... he is Canadian... and wait for it, we produce the best talent in the world hands down... shocking, but all true.

no, he was a racist, and a biggot.
he'd insult Europeans for being European and almost got fired a few times for doing it. I'm no fan of the Sedin's but, he had some insane hatred for them, and making fun of last names and all that BS.
Other than when he spoke about player safety (which i admired him for, and he was always correct in his assessments on safety) most of what he spewed was just rubbish looking for ratings, ala Howard Stern (but the more polite Canadian hockey version).

 

[fahad203]

no, he was a racist, and a biggot.
he'd insult Europeans for being European and almost got fired a few times for doing it. I'm no fan of the Sedin's but, he had some insane hatred for them, and making fun of last names and all that BS.
Other than when he spoke about player safety (which i admired him for, and he was always correct in his assessments on safety) most of what he spewed was just rubbish looking for ratings, ala Howard Stern (but the more polite Canadian hockey version).

He would deliveritely misprounce names to mock them

Serji Federov. Jaro Mir Jagar (prouncing the J) and worse I hated about him what Ponikorovsky

He would constantly call him Pona kohawvsky or Pochan vski (to make it sound like Pochahontas)

Dude was such a jackass.

 

[The CyNick]

no, he was a racist, and a biggot.
he'd insult Europeans for being European and almost got fired a few times for doing it. I'm no fan of the Sedin's but, he had some insane hatred for them, and making fun of last names and all that BS.
Other than when he spoke about player safety (which i admired him for, and he was always correct in his assessments on safety) most of what he spewed was just rubbish looking for ratings, ala Howard Stern (but the more polite Canadian hockey version).

Most people don't get him. Bottom line is he loved the sport. More than any major hockey media personality he was actually in rinks WATCHING GAMES and promoting Canadian minor hockey.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Dubas has made better draft selections or had the benefit of higher draft positions & the choices were no brainers ?

 

[tmlfan98]

Protecting Holl over 7-3-1 was a huge mistake, Holl is nothing more than a 4/5 tweener being carried by Muzzin. When he's not playing with Muzzin he only succeeds on the 3rd pair for 2M, which is garbage value relative to the cap structure on this team. Marner needs to ****ing go. If Dubas won't do it he needs to go asap.

 

[trellaine201]

Have to say Dubas is a disappointment as GM. Just on those 4 huge contracts alone. Not even mentioning other things.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Still not as dumb as the Marner contract.

The Andreas Johnson contract is horrendous as well. Fortunately e managed to trade him, but Dubas and re-signing his own guys is a match made in heaven for the agents.

 

[mikeyz]

Dubas AINEC.

Dubas inherited a team who set a team record in points and has rapidly made it worse with each passing year.

JFJ was bad. But, at the time, he wanted to rebuild and the board said no, so he had to improvise and do things he normally wouldn't do.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Dubas AINEC.

Dubas inherited a team who set a team record in points and has rapidly made it worse with each passing year.

JFJ was bad. But, at the time, he wanted to rebuild and the board said no, so he had to improvise and do things he normally wouldn't do.

The Muskoka 5 said no, and he was directly responsible for that all by himself. Set the franchise back to where we literally only recovered with the Matthews draft.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Dubas has locked himself in to this core and it’s all he knows. They have failed 5 times. But rah rahh rahhh kets go for a 6th season of soft,heartless possession hockey when the goung is easy in thevreg season.
The guy is incompetence at its peak. Oh well next year this time they will be fired. Thats great but i lose another year of my team being good. I wish they would fire both now. I don’t mind Keefe one bit. Keep him. His hands are as tied with the chokers as ours are as fans

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I swear from what I remember in high school days, JFJ was horrible in almost every aspect of being a GM.
His drafting was poor, his signings were poor. his trades were poor. and he gave out wayyy too many NTCs

Dubas other than getting the kids signed imo has done fairly well. his drafting on paper looks good so far, his trades have been good. his depth signings have been ok.

JFJ was a nightmare.
Dubas is better than most think imo

 

[The CyNick]

I swear from what I remember in high school days, JFJ was horrible in almost every aspect of being a GM.
His drafting was poor, his signings were poor. his trades were poor. and he gave out wayyy too many NTCs

Dubas other than getting the kids signed imo has done fairly well. his drafting on paper looks good so far, his trades have been good. his depth signings have been ok.

JFJ was a nightmare.
Dubas is better than most think imo

What has he done well?

Has taken the team backwards on the ice.

 

[trellaine201]

Forgot about the Foligno deal. Pretty sure he was injured when we acquired him for our 1st pick this year. Damaged goods. Poor decision.

 

[mikeyz]

I swear from what I remember in high school days, JFJ was horrible in almost every aspect of being a GM.
His drafting was poor, his signings were poor. his trades were poor. and he gave out wayyy too many NTCs

Dubas other than getting the kids signed imo has done fairly well. his drafting on paper looks good so far, his trades have been good. his depth signings have been ok.

JFJ was a nightmare.
Dubas is better than most think imo

How is Dubas “Better then most think”?

The team is getting worse and worse since he took over for Lou. In what way have they improved?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

What has he done well?

Has taken the team backwards on the ice.

I see reading is not your strong suit my friend. I said his drafting so far on paper looks good, his trades have been pretty good for the most part. his signings have been decent since the Matthews/Marner ones were completed.
it really hasnt been long enough yet to get a real grasp on the quality of his drafting but has look good so far

He took the team backwards? because it looked like last year he improved in alot of areas we lacked in such a depth, Defense and Leadership
we were doing good but our Stars didnt show up in the playoffs.
other than signing our kids to too much money which was like 3 years ago now. what has he really done that was so poor?

moving the 1st to rid our selves of Marleau can be blamed on Lou. the Price was high every team knew why they needed to dump that contract and that was the price. just sucks it ended up being Seth Jarvis

 

[ACC1224]

I see reading is not your strong suit my friend. I said his drafting so far on paper looks good, his trades have been pretty good for the most part. his signings have been decent since the Matthews/Marner ones were completed.
it really hasnt been long enough yet to get a real grasp on the quality of his drafting but has look good so far

He took the team backwards? because it looked like last year he improved in alot of areas we lacked in such a depth, Defense and Leadership
we were doing good but our Stars didnt show up in the playoffs.
other than signing our kids to too much money which was like 3 years ago now. what has he really done that was so poor?

moving the 1st to rid our selves of Marleau can be blamed on Lou. the Price was high every team knew why they needed to dump that contract and that was the price. just sucks it ended up being Seth Jarvis

That was on Dubas, Lou Lam had already moved on by that point.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

How is Dubas “Better then most think”?

The team is getting worse and worse since he took over for Lou. In what way have they improved?

Well if covid never shut down the league and the cap didnt stay flat we would have been in a better position.
wasn't the cap suppose to rise like 4m before covid started?
So this can kind of be blamed on that.

It's not his fault the cap is staying flat. the cap was always expected to rise which would give us more money towards the rest of our team. usually when players sign big contracts it takes a couple years for the % to basically lower. however covid really screwed us with a flat cap for another 3 or so years

Not really Dubas fault. just unfortunate for timing on our side.

I understand we're all still disappointed in them and we take our frustration out here but comparing him to JFJ or even if anyone is saying that JFJ was better is straight lunacy