Kyle Dubas appreciation / hot seat discussion ***Mod warning in OP***

[Boutette]

I've never seen so much doom and gloom over a team likely to finish top 5, possibly top 3.

While praising the GMs of teams that may or may not even make the playoffs this year with their current lineups.

 

[hector morrison]

Dubas can sign about 3 more deals like the Marner one and still have done a better job of negotiation than the last 3 Leafs GMs. (Marleau, Clarkson, Komisarek, among others, are worse than Dubas' overpayments combined.). He overpayed by 2-3M tops, total. I'd rather the team win every negosh, but bottom line is they could and they did.

The moves Dubas has made are nothing short of amazing...Would like to hear what the amatuer 'experts' would of done ...going back to pre-Tavares...would be entertaining I'm sure!

 

[Throw More Waffles]

So this team 'sucks' to you?

No. The team is great. In SPITE of Dubas’s contracts. Not because of them.

Our “great” team would be f***ing legendary with a good gm. And that’s what bothers me the most.

And sure. If they win a cup, then none of this matters. But if they don’t, I’ll know the reason why.

 

[Critical13]

While praising the GMs of teams that may or may not even make the playoffs this year with their current lineups.

It's all about CapFriendly cred and prospect cred on here for many. They take the mainboards way to seriously.

 

[hector morrison]

No. The team is great. In SPITE of Dubas’s contracts. Not because of them.

Our “great” team would be ****ing legendary with a good gm. And that’s what bothers me the most.

And sure. If they win a cup, then none of this matters. But if they don’t, I’ll know the reason why.

"in spite of"...Yeah...you're lost there guy...I recommend you just enjoy the product that Dubas has created. He did well and he did what he said he would do. Look at the roster! You could of done better? Don't answer that!

 

[Critical13]

No. The team is great. In SPITE of Dubas’s contracts. Not because of them.

Our “great” team would be ****ing legendary with a good gm. And that’s what bothers me the most.

And sure. If they win a cup, then none of this matters. But if they don’t, I’ll know the reason why.

I cant imagine if we actually had some bad contracts, like say Lucic or Vlasic. You would be at risk of an aneurysm. Instead you are upset because we kept our stars happy and paid them big dollars.

My favourite part is you haven't even watched them play a single game of their new contracts and you've already had 4 or 5 meltdowns that would make a 3 year old blush.

 

[Stephen]

The moves Dubas has made are nothing short of amazing...Would like to hear what the amatuer 'experts' would of done ...going back to pre-Tavares...would be entertaining I'm sure!

The big picture is the Leafs have locked up all their big stars and are overflowing with depth at forward and the revamped defense looks amazing.

 

[Semantics]

The moves Dubas has made are nothing short of amazing...Would like to hear what the amatuer 'experts' would of done ...going back to pre-Tavares...would be entertaining I'm sure!

Yeah, barely a year ago even, pretty much no one thought it would be possible to do what he has done. Quite a few people thought the Tavares signing meant Willy was gone. To not only get all 3 re-signed, but upgrade the defense and bottom six is nothing short of phenomenal.

No one also mentions that Tavares took less money to sign here, and Kappy/Johnsson signed team-friendly deals, so overall it pretty much nets out to a wash on Dubas' contract negotiating.

 

[Albert Iafrate]

So you're saying that unprecedented dramatic overpayments help teams win? That's a new one. I thought I'd already heard all of the Dubas excuses... but this place never ceases to surprise me.

The Cubs and Red Sox spent almost 150 million dollars more in salary than the Blue Jays, and have won two of the last three World Series. You are only pissed because it's the NHL and there is a salary cap. If there wasn't, you could bet your house on the fact that the Leafs would be one of, if not the top teams with respect to salary in the NHL. If they weren't, people would be bitching and moaning because we aren't spending enough (like they do with the Blue Jays).

In every sport, marquee big market teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Patriots, Jets, 49ers, Lakers, Celtics, Warriors) are overpaying for talent. So yes, dramatic overpayments on players salary often helps teams win. Dude, before the cap, Colorado was paying Peter Forsberg 10 million dollars in the year 2000 and they won the cup. That's like 15 million in 2019 with inflation alone. Pre salary cap, that is what teams had to do to be competative. For years the Leafs always overpaid players. At least now, they are actually overpaying for talented players.

 

[DarkKnight]

Dubas was rolled by three successive agents, no question.

That said, I’m looking at our D this year compared to last and see two big legit top 4 adds via trade, a kid he drafted looking like a home run and he got rid of Zaitsev for what looks an upgrade. With a Dermott coming back soon, on paper it’s a WAY better D this year and he’s largely responsible. Our D was our biggest liability, Dubas has done a good job addressing it, credit deserved.

 

[X66]

Leafs fans are actually pathetic, what a bunch of babies.

At the end of the day, all those teams that signed their RFA's didn't have another player on their team making $11 million, so their internal cap obviously played a role.

So let me ask you, would you rather not have Tavares on this team, and have both Matthews and Marner take 2 million less?

Of course you wouldn't.

This is the price you have to pay to get a player like Tavares, and you do it 10/10 times.

I keep hearing about how Tampa and Boston will be able to add deadline help. Who cares, none of those guys will ever be a someone like Tavares' level, and a powerhouse team like the Bolts still got swept in the first round. The team that won the Stanely Cup last year, how many major additions did they make during the TDL?

That's the NHL playoffs for you.

How would the Leafs stack up to the rest of the contenders without Tavares? Not well.

Regardless of how people feel about Dubas handling these negotiations, the Leafs had a different internal cap than the rest of the teams it is how it is.

But I have a hard time ripping a guy that...

Signed Tavares
Kept the big 3 for at least 5 years
Drafted Sandin
Got rid of every bad contract on poor players

That's amazing for someone in his first 2 years.

This place makes me sick.

 

[Antropovsky]

Ok I get it after re-reading. Thanks for confirming.

Haha no problem.

 

[HammertownHockey]

People need to relax a bit. Dubas for sure had some issues but really what GM doesnt? His biggest mistakes have been overpaying our stars and keeping sparks last year... Id say if those are your biggest issues its been a fairly successful campaign considering what weve been accustomed to over the years.

Realistically marner is overpaid by 1-1.5m matthews by 1m and nylander maybe 500k? So we are literally talking 2.5m-3m in dead cap due to dubas poor negotiating ability. If you go around the league there are multiple teams that have overpaid ONE player by more than 3 million and many others that have overpayments adding into the millions. Every team has bad contracts and if our bad contracts = a 3m overpay to our stars that something i can live with. Just having marleau last year was a 5m overpay relative to his production so...

 

[DueDiligence]

The Cubs and Red Sox spent almost 150 million dollars more in salary than the Blue Jays, and have won two of the last three World Series. You are only pissed because it's the NHL and there is a salary cap. If there wasn't, you could bet your house on the fact that the Leafs would be one of, if not the top teams with respect to salary in the NHL. If they weren't, people would be *****ing and moaning because we aren't spending enough (like they do with the Blue Jays).

In every sport, marquee big market teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Patriots, Jets, 49ers, Lakers, Celtics, Warriors) are overpaying for talent. So yes, dramatic overpayments on players salary often helps teams win. Dude, before the cap, Colorado was paying Peter Forsberg 10 million dollars in the year 2000 and they won the cup. That's like 15 million in 2019 with inflation alone. Pre salary cap, that is what teams had to do to be competative. For years the Leafs always overpaid players. At least now, they are actually overpaying for talented players.

Actually the Patriots do not over pay for talent. They always find cheaper alternatives when guys get too expensive. That's why they win so much.

 

[Metroid]

Leafs fans are actually pathetic, what a bunch of babies.

At the end of the day, all those teams that signed their RFA's didn't have another player on their team making $11 million, so their internal cap obviously played a role.

So let me ask you, would you rather not have Tavares on this team, and have both Matthews and Marner take 2 million less?

Of course you wouldn't.

This is the price you have to pay to get a player like Tavares, and you do it 10/10 times.

I keep hearing about how Tampa and Boston will be able to add deadline help. Who cares, none of those guys will ever be a someone like Tavares' level, and a powerhouse team like the Bolts still got swept in the first round. The team that won the Stanely Cup last year, how many major additions did they make during the TDL?

That's the NHL playoffs for you.

How would the Leafs stack up to the rest of the contenders without Tavares? Not well.

Regardless of how people feel about Dubas handling these negotiations, the Leafs had a different internal cap than the rest of the teams it is how it is.

But I have a hard time ripping a guy that...

Signed Tavares
Kept the big 3 for at least 5 years
Drafted Sandin
Got rid of every bad contract on poor players

That's amazing for someone in his first 2 years.

This place makes me sick.

Amen

 

[Kiwi]

I'm like you. I think Dubas did a great job rounding out the team and getting rid of bad Lou contracts. As far as contract negotiations go with high profile players, Dubas sucks.

Couldn't agree more

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Matthews contract is within the range of his recent comparables on an 8 year term. Not 5. (FOUR ufa years, not one).

Kyle Connors contract makes Nylanders look like a pretty big joke. They have the same points over their 2 years, but Connor was a proven 34 goal scorer (as opposed to Nylanders 22), and scored around 25 more elc goals. So right there alone Connor deserved significantly more than Nylander.

But they signed for the precise same cap percentage, with Connor getting one extra year on term, and one extra ufa year. Let's also add that Connor has NO signing bonuses or front-loading, whereas Nylander made about HALF of his total contract within 7 months of signing. Nylanders contract is just as big of a joke as Dubas's other unprecedented dramatic overpayments.

And this is usually when the Dubas defenders start blabbing on about "the taxes. The taxes. the taxes."
Well, that bull**** excuse can't even be used this time. They pay the same taxes.

Well who’s contract was ovechkin’s comparable to at the time for his goal scoring prowess. Matthews compares to Ovechkin for his scoring and there is sample size that backs his elite scoring in the mold of Ovi.

Scoring premiums are damn real. Matthews got that premium because he is one of the most lethal scorers in the league and the stats are well known who leads the league in 5vs5 over his three seasons.

Thats why he got so much and thats why Ovi got so much at the time.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

So you're saying that unprecedented dramatic overpayments help teams win? That's a new one. I thought I'd already heard all of the Dubas excuses... but this place never ceases to surprise me.

Wow just stop. Its not a new one at all. Scorers get dramatic escalations in cap hit. Its not new

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The Rantanen deal shows how big of a shmuck Dubass is

Really? You can say that without even seeing who produces more over the term of the contract! Huh, Marner for my money every day over rantanen! Last i checked Marner out produced him last year too, but I’ll digress and at least see a couple actual years of the contracts against each other first. You know, I’ll evaluate it the proper way. You do it your way thats fine

 

[Wafflewhipper]

No. The team is great. In SPITE of Dubas’s contracts. Not because of them.

Our “great” team would be ****ing legendary with a good gm. And that’s what bothers me the most.

And sure. If they win a cup, then none of this matters. But if they don’t, I’ll know the reason why.

Look you have been stuck in the mud on contracts that are not a single day in to their term for way to long. Care to debate the job dubas has done without the contracts with people.

Your displeasure with him would hold no water in a matter of a couple posts. I might add that they are contracts that haven’t even started yet.

You wouldn’t have anything viable to use to bash him if it wasn’t for your contracts are bad arguement. You don’t have a single game of proof about these contracts. You understand you are 5 years to early bashing these contracts don’t you???

 

[Leaf Fans]

No. The team is great. In SPITE of Dubas’s contracts. Not because of them.

Our “great” team would be ****ing legendary with a good gm. And that’s what bothers me the most.

And sure. If they win a cup, then none of this matters. But if they don’t, I’ll know the reason why.

You think it would be a better team without contracts and good GM and not with contracts and our excellent GM. I'd love to hear you explain that!

 

[yubbers]

The moves Dubas has made are nothing short of amazing...Would like to hear what the amatuer 'experts' would of done ...going back to pre-Tavares...would be entertaining I'm sure!

Dubas homers only have JT signing to hang onto. Which is laughable. How long did Dubas have the job when the JT signing happened?Roger Rabbit could've been GM. But hey...gotta reach when defending a train wreck i guess..

 

[Stephen]

The thing that looks good for the Leafs right now is they have a great stockpile at the forward group behind the Big 4 at various contracts that can be moved out for first round picks, prospects or other positional players as their needs evolve over the next few years:

Johnsson, Kapanen, Hyman, Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Korshkov, Moore, Bracco, Marchment, Engvall, Robertson, Brooks, etc.

There's a lot of pieces you can promote, swap out, recycle.

 

[hector morrison]

Dubas homers only have JT signing to hang onto. Which is laughable. How long did Dubas have the job when the JT signing happened?Roger Rabbit could've been GM. But hey...gotta reach when defending a train wreck i guess..

Have you seen the roster this year? What part don't you like?

 

[hector morrison]

The Cubs and Red Sox spent almost 150 million dollars more in salary than the Blue Jays, and have won two of the last three World Series. You are only pissed because it's the NHL and there is a salary cap. If there wasn't, you could bet your house on the fact that the Leafs would be one of, if not the top teams with respect to salary in the NHL. If they weren't, people would be *****ing and moaning because we aren't spending enough (like they do with the Blue Jays).

In every sport, marquee big market teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Patriots, Jets, 49ers, Lakers, Celtics, Warriors) are overpaying for talent. So yes, dramatic overpayments on players salary often helps teams win. Dude, before the cap, Colorado was paying Peter Forsberg 10 million dollars in the year 2000 and they won the cup. That's like 15 million in 2019 with inflation alone. Pre salary cap, that is what teams had to do to be competative. For years the Leafs always overpaid players. At least now, they are actually overpaying for talented players.

Guaranteed, if there was no salary cap,the Dubas haters would be the first to call him cheap for not spending to get the best available players!