Kyle Dubas appreciation / hot seat discussion ***Mod warning in OP***

[Throw More Waffles]

I guess that might be the case if your argument had any basis in reality.

So you're saying that unprecedented dramatic overpayments help teams win? That's a new one. I thought I'd already heard all of the Dubas excuses... but this place never ceases to surprise me.

 

[al secord]

you're right baby , the Dube is perfect just like Burke was before him so i'm going to pick pick my pom poms and waive them until my arms pop out of their sockets cheering for Dubas

It's killing you that someone you didn't want in the job, who's been successful (for the most part) and is much younger and more handsome than you is receiving praise. This post proves it. You're falling off the rails.

 

[Boutette]

So you're saying that unprecedented dramatic overpayments help teams win? That's a new one. I thought I'd already heard all of the Dubas excuses... but this place never ceases to surprise me.

The contracts aren't unprecedented, they aren't dramatic, nor are they overpayments vs value differential different than dozens of other player contracts in the NHL who at most elicit the shrug that is all they deserve. As many have pointed out, they're all 'a little more' than expected. Your argument is flawed in that it is ridiculously hyperbolic from the get go.

 

[Pocket Hercules]

This thread is done lol. Someone should close it.

Kessel is gone, Kadri is gone, Gardiner is gone, Nylander isn't doing bad anymore, so the new whipping boy is ... Kyle Dubas? That's a first

He's reaching Aki Berg levels of hatred on here. Guess fans don't remember how awful all of Nonis, Burke, Fletch Part II, JFJ, Quinn, and even Dryden were during their respective tenures as GM's here. Dubas definitely has made his fair share of mistakes with the negotiation side of things, but also had a large hand in creating the blueprint of our current development system, which is arguably one of the best in the league. Not to mention having the 1st legitimate shot of contending for the cup since 2002. So yeah, I think he gets a pass from me.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

pretty much all key pieces outside Muzzin, Barrie and Kerfoot he inherited.

Edit: mind blanked forgot JT which he deserves credit for.

Far from it. When at my computer I will send you the full list. Only Rielly plus a couple picks have been here more than 3 years. Basically Matthew's (no brainer), Liljegren (no brainer) and Andersen belong to Lou. Most of the rest is Dubas (don't forget he was in GM role before Lou).

 

[93LEAFS]

Far from it. When at my computer I will send you the full list. Only Rielly plus a couple picks have been here more than 3 years. Basically Matthew's (no brainer), Liljegren (no brainer) and Andersen belong to Lou. Most of the rest is Dubas (don't forget he was in GM role before Lou).

Marner and Dermott belong to Hunter more than anyone. He controlled the draft board. Marner was Hunter and solely Hunter and his scouting staff. Nylander was prior.

 

[Gallagbi]

What big assets were lost? A first, sure....but that's on Lou. Getting rid of Kadri for that package was a win.

A first and Kadri are huge assets to lose. You could throw in another first if you want to add Muzzin, we paid a premium for the cost certainty in this year.

are traded every year. He'll make next summer work like he made this summer work. I'm not worried about it. It's dumb to worry about a year away when a lot can change

Try enjoying this team. It's looking rather good!

Everything we do here is dumb. Discussing the games, debating, speculating, it has no real purpose.

You do understand it's possible to be excited for this team and also have questions about the future right? This all or nothing sentiment on both sides is idiotic. Dubas has done a good job assembling this team. He's had obstacles and overcome them. He's losing bullets in his chamber though with two straight firsts out the door and a fantastic value centre moved for a rental. You can't continue to lose those future assets because they restock your pipeline. He's also made his job tougher overpaying his 3 RFAs.

 

[Antropovsky]

A first and Kadri are huge assets to lose. You could throw in another first if you want to add Muzzin, we paid a premium for the cost certainty in this year.

Everything we do here is dumb. Discussing the games, debating, speculating, it has no real purpose.

You do understand it's possible to be excited for this team and also have questions about the future right? This all or nothing sentiment on both sides is idiotic. Dubas has done a good job assembling this team. He's had obstacles and overcome them. He's losing bullets in his chamber though with two straight firsts out the door and a fantastic value centre moved for a rental. You can't continue to lose those future assets because they restock your pipeline. He's also made his job tougher overpaying his 3 RFAs.

He also gained Kerfoot as a value center with Barrie. Kerfoot had 1 goal and 2 assists less than Kadri last season (Kerfoot had atrocious linemates). Dubas saved 1 million per season by exchanging Kadri for Kerfoot...and got 4 years younger. Incredibly important considering the price of our big 3.

He also gained a 1st pairing RH offensive dman.

Difficult to argue with this trade. I think he got incredible value for Kadri.

 

[Gallagbi]

Is it really fair to compare Nylander to Connor's contract though given Connor signed nearly a year later in a different off-season? I'm not quite sure it is

Seems pretty fair to be honest, but Nylander's the best value by far of those 3 RFAs.

 

[Gallagbi]

He also gained Kerfoot as a value center with Barrie. Kerfoot had 1 goal and 2 assists less than Kadri last season (Kerfoot had atrocious linemates). Dubas saved 1 million per season by exchanging Kadri for Kerfoot...and got 4 years younger. Incredibly important considering the price of our big 3.

He also gained a 1st pairing RH offensive dman.

Difficult to argue with this trade. I think he got incredible value for Kadri.

I agree that a lot depends on Kerfoot for the long-term success.

Kadri had a ton of value around the league the return and even nixed trade shows that. It's an asset we used primarily to get Barrie (and at a low cap cost) with Kerfoot as some protection/downgrade.

 

[Antropovsky]

I agree that a lot depends on Kerfoot for the long-term success.

Kadri had a ton of value around the league the return and even nixed trade shows that. It's an asset we used primarily to get Barrie (and at a low cap cost) with Kerfoot as some protection/downgrade

The nixed trade might have spurred Sakic into offering more...once he learned he almost lost the player he coveted. We can only speculate.

Jankowski + Brodie was the rumored deal Kadri nixed.

If true...on paper it looks like not as good of a return. However there could be plenty of diff reasons that Dubas pulled the trigger on the Calgary trade first.

• The aforementioned Colorado deal was not as good.
• Maybe Dubas is higher on Jankowski than Kerfoot.
• Jankowski and Brodie are around 6.3 for the year, meanwhile Kerfoot and Barrie are at 9 million. (Big cap savings this year). Both would be easier to fit under cap in upcoming years too..as Barrie is going to be looking for a sig raise.
• Maybe Calgary didnt include Rosen and Dubas didnt want to part with him?

Etc etc.

 

[Gallagbi]

The nixed trade might have spurred Sakic into offering more...once he learned he almost lost the player he coveted. We can only speculate.

Jankowski + Brodie was the rumored deal Kadri nixed.

If true...on paper it looks like not as good of a return. However there could be plenty of diff reasons that Dubas pulled the trigger on the Calgary trade first.

• The aforementioned Colorado deal was not as good.
• Maybe Dubas is higher on Jankowski than Kerfoot.
• Jankowski and Brodie are around 6.3 for the year, meanwhile Kerfoot and Barrie are at 9 million. (Big cap savings this year). Both would be easier to fit under cap in upcoming years too..as Barrie is going to be looking for a sig raise.
• Maybe Calgary didnt include Rosen and Dubas didnt want to part with him?

Etc etc.

Both are good deals. While Brodie is a lefty, he's very comfortable on the right and a better defender than Barrie.

Either is a good haul, shows how good of am asset Kadri was. Don't really care which is considered better (debatable IMO, I could go either way)

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I agree that a lot depends on Kerfoot for the long-term success.

Kadri had a ton of value around the league the return and even nixed trade shows that. It's an asset we used primarily to get Barrie (and at a low cap cost) with Kerfoot as some protection/downgrade.

I think if Kerfoot gets Kappy back on his wing at some point that could be a lethal third line combo. A pass first left shot from the middle going to a shoot first right shot on the RW is usually a great combination.

 

[ToneDog]

The nixed trade might have spurred Sakic into offering more...once he learned he almost lost the player he coveted. We can only speculate.

Jankowski + Brodie was the rumored deal Kadri nixed.

If true...on paper it looks like not as good of a return. However there could be plenty of diff reasons that Dubas pulled the trigger on the Calgary trade first.

• The aforementioned Colorado deal was not as good.
• Maybe Dubas is higher on Jankowski than Kerfoot.
• Jankowski and Brodie are around 6.3 for the year, meanwhile Kerfoot and Barrie are at 9 million. (Big cap savings this year). Both would be easier to fit under cap in upcoming years too..as Barrie is going to be looking for a sig raise.
• Maybe Calgary didnt include Rosen and Dubas didnt want to part with him?

Etc etc.

Kadri refused to go to Calgary so the deal with the Flames fell through.

 

[mcleex]

The Rantanen deal shows how big of a shmuck Dubass is

 

[thewave]

The Rantanen deal shows how big of a shmuck Dubass is

Yip

 

[Boutette]

I agree that a lot depends on Kerfoot for the long-term success.

Kadri had a ton of value around the league the return and even nixed trade shows that. It's an asset we used primarily to get Barrie (and at a low cap cost) with Kerfoot as some protection/downgrade.

Kerfoot has showed some very very good posession numbers this preseason and has lined up very well with Mikheyev and Moore. His line is likely to be a whole lot more effective than Kadri's was last year.

 

[Boutette]

The Rantanen deal shows how big of a shmuck Dubass is

Yeah, you don't really pay equal dollar for a guy who's primary value is as PP Specialist, who is gifted 70+% Ozone starts and still scores 10pts less than a guy like Marner. Nylander would put up Ranta numbers if we played him like Colorado plays Ranta.

 

[Antropovsky]

Kadri refused to go to Calgary so the deal with the Flames fell through.

My post that you quoted states exactly that

 

[ToneDog]

My post that you quoted states exactly that

Ok I get it after re-reading. Thanks for confirming.

 

[Semantics]

So you're saying that unprecedented dramatic overpayments help teams win? That's a new one. I thought I'd already heard all of the Dubas excuses... but this place never ceases to surprise me.

Dubas can sign about 3 more deals like the Marner one and still have done a better job of negotiation than the last 3 Leafs GMs. (Marleau, Clarkson, Komisarek, among others, are worse than Dubas' overpayments combined.). He overpayed by 2-3M tops, total. I'd rather the team win every negosh, but bottom line is they could and they did.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Dubas can sign about 3 more deals like the Marner one and still have done a better job of negotiation than the last 3 Leafs GMs. (Marleau, Clarkson, Komisarek, among others, are worse than Dubas' overpayments combined.). He overpayed by 2-3M tops, total. I'd rather the team win every negosh, but bottom line is they could and they did.

Saying “our previous gm’s sucked as well” doesn’t make me feel any better about Dubas sucking as gm.

 

[Critical13]

I've never seen so much doom and gloom over a team likely to finish top 5, possibly top 3.

 

[hector morrison]

Saying “our previous gm’s sucked as well” doesn’t make me feel any better about Dubas sucking as gm.

So this team 'sucks' to you?

 

[hector morrison]

I've never seen so much doom and gloom over a team likely to finish top 5, possibly top 3.

Tough crowd!