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Kyle Dubas appreciation / hot seat discussion ***Mod warning in OP***

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Strange how people complained when we spent two 2nds on 4th line centers was a waste, but giving away a 1st on top of that is good asset management. Strange.

Could have just kept Gardiner and still had the first and the prospects. One of which is the much sought after RHD.
 
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The CyNick said:
Strange how people complained when we spent two 2nds on 4th line centers was a waste, but giving away a 1st on top of that is good asset management. Strange.

Could have just kept Gardiner and still had the first and the prospects. One of which is the much sought after RHD.
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well, giving away a first on top of it to add a player like Muzzin instead of two rental 4th line centers is a win
 
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The CyNick said:
Strange how people complained when we spent two 2nds on 4th line centers was a waste, but giving away a 1st on top of that is good asset management. Strange.

Could have just kept Gardiner and still had the first and the prospects. One of which is the much sought after RHD.
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The draft picks for Muzzin were traded for a QUALITY player. Not bottom pairing defenseman or 4th line center. Plus he was signed for 2 years and not a pure rental. Does not seem strange at all

I hate giving up draft picks, especially since we have drafted very well in the 1st and second round recently, but Muzzin was a good acquisition

Gardiner is a polarizing player on here, so not even going to get into that lol. All I know is that our defence is the best it has been in years

We have Barrie as our RHD right now. Hopefully Liljegren reaches his potential and continues to fill that role
 
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Crazy Monkey said:
And what happens if they just keep 1? Is that a fail?

Good teams take risks. Our defense is the best its been in years
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if they win a cup it's genius, if they disappoint and both walk I don't know how it's not a fail. If one stay and one goes? Not sure how that'll pan out, guess it depends on how their seasons go; who resigns and who walks; and what's the cost of resigning?
 
rumman said:
I wonder how it'll be spun that losing Barrie and Muzzin to free agency is no biggie when it happens.
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lol, it'll be a combined $6.5M coming off the books.

You're running under the assumption that none of that will be used to bring back a defensemen?

The truth really is somewhere between the adamant defenders of Dubas and the ones who go out their way to twist everything to trash him.
 
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rumman said:
if they win a cup it's genius, if they disappoint and both walk I don't know how it's not a fail. If one stay and one goes? Not sure how that'll pan out, guess it depends on how their seasons go; who resigns and who walks; and what's the cost of resigning?
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If they both walk, I'll be really disappointed especially since we paid quality assets. If one stays, which is more realistic, then yeah, I agree, lots of factors go into determining if it was worth it or not. Plus the development of Sandin, Dermott, and Liljegren will be a factor I'm sure

Still happy that we were able to get both Muzzin and Barrie without hurting our forward core though. Should be a fun year
 
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IPS said:
lol, it'll be a combined $6.5M coming off the books.

You're running under the assumption that none of that will be used to bring back a defensemen?

The truth really is somewhere between the adamant defenders of Dubas and the ones who go out their way to twist everything to trash him.
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it's a hockey forum, if everyone had the same opinion there wouldn't be much to discuss now would there?
 
thewave said:
He didn't build the team. The team is the core. He spent a load on rentals using picks and past core elements to assemble a 1 off team for this season. It looks good mind you, but its just for a year.
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Sorry. When did he spend a load on rentals?

What timeline are you attributing to dubas?
 
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hotpaws said:
the most negative people on this board by far are the people like you who believe there positive

and you think you're being positive because you follow a pecking order on who to **** on and right now Dubas is is at the top of the sacred cow list
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Baaahaaahaaa, I'm not shitting on anyone. Not management, not player. Pointing out that someone is negative because they are pointing out the people who are negative is another fine deflection to the point you are the one doing the shitting for no reason. It's a new season, noting has happened yet. How can you be so negative.
 
CantLoseWithMatthews said:
well, giving away a first on top of it to add a player like Muzzin instead of two rental 4th line centers is a win
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Considering Muzzin was acquired for last year's playoff run plus this season and this season's playoff run is also better use of assets as well instead of one playoff run
 
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CantLoseWithMatthews said:
Plus if they don't re sign him, it's because they're set on the left. Toronto isn't going to let him walk and then make a comparable trade again
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They very well could let him walk and be looking to replace all year. We'll be down one of our top 3 due to cap reasons next year.
 
Gallagbi said:
They very well could let him walk and be looking to replace all year. We'll be down one of our top 3 due to cap reasons next year.
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So? The team was in pretty much the same spot last year. How did that turn out? We replaced Gardiner, Zaitsev and Hainsey with Barrie, Ceci and Muzzin. Is that a catastrophe in your books?
 
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The CyNick said:
Strange how people complained when we spent two 2nds on 4th line centers was a waste, but giving away a 1st on top of that is good asset management. Strange.

Could have just kept Gardiner and still had the first and the prospects. One of which is the much sought after RHD.
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If you're gonna compare, do it honestly. You have to compare the quality on both sides. A TOP 4D is anyday +value over 4th line centres, especially for the kind of defense we used to have. Balance is key.

On top, the 4C's were only rentals for half of a season. Muzzin was for 1.5 years, so the first pick is expected. Plus you also get first dibs on re-signing him.

Gardiner is polarizing to the fanbase and his time was up, unfortunately, however with his health risk and increasing age, commiting dollars and term to him is also tough, especially with the money the team had to allocate elsewhere. The things Gardiner did really well, we already have in other defensemen.

To each their own, but I really enjoy Muzzin over Gards. They both bring different aspects so it is tough to compare but Muzzin's size and defensive presence is key for this team.

I also like his skating (very good for a man of his size) and shot. Leafs have offense and skating from the Rielly's, Barrie's, Sandin's.
 
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thewave said:
He didn't build the team. The team is the core. He spent a load on rentals using picks and past core elements to assemble a 1 off team for this season. It looks good mind you, but its just for a year.
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Why there haven’t been a GM that could have build team this good for at least a year?

I haven’t seen one in my 26 years following this team.

Dubas did great job, suck it up.
 
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hotpaws said:
just a reminder

he's been GM just over a yr and the team he took over had over 100pts so lets not pretend he took over a bottom feeder with zero assets on the roster or in the organization
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He had to do most demanding retool for this rebuild during this summer. He ****ed up two RFA contracts, but nevermind still build a surefire contender. Retooled defense, got rid of all the dead weight and signed tons of cheap depth while doing that.
 
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It just seems that our critics are running out of arguments, when we are talking about building better defense for cup window as a bad thing. I understand that you want to keep your draft picks and prospects as long as possible, but something has to give, when you make your team better.

At least Muzzin is here for two playoff runs. Rookie dman drafted this summer might be playing +20min for us when?

This board has gone nuts for christ sake. Remember Kessel trade, Blake signing, hot dogs, salute gate, burning jerseys, Dave Nonis, JFJ, Senile Fox signing Jeff Finger... This is golden year for us. Even if we don’t win at least we have a chance. That wasn’t the case during PPP days.

f***.
 
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Boutette said:
So? The team was in pretty much the same spot last year. How did that turn out? We replaced Gardiner, Zaitsev and Hainsey with Barrie, Ceci and Muzzin. Is that a catastrophe in your books?
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So his point isn't accurate about re-signing, or not, being only because they're set on the left.
 
kb said:
I heard the same thing last year. Didn't happen.
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And we lost big assets to make the cap work this year. If we aren't down one of the big 3 on D, it'll cost us again to make the numbers work.

Also weird you heard the same thing last year when there wasn't a big 3 on D and they had the cap to re-sign their current group going in to the year.
 
deprw said:
It just seems that our critics are running out of arguments, when we are talking about building better defense for cup window as a bad thing. I understand that you want to keep your draft picks and prospects as long as possible, but something has to give, when you make your team better.

At least Muzzin is here for two playoff runs. Rookie dman drafted this summer might be playing +20min for us when?

This board has gone nuts for christ sake. Remember Kessel trade, Blake signing, hot dogs, salute gate, burning jerseys, Dave Nonis, JFJ, Senile Fox signing Jeff Finger... This is golden year for us. Even if we don’t win at least we have a chance. That wasn’t the case during PPP days.

****.
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The Leafs have 11 picks in next year's draft. Prospects get traded, but the Leafs still have their top ones.

You are correct about people whining for no reason. They are trying so hard to look for negatives. "Dubas should have got stars for free, stupid Dubas!!"

That's where they are today. Taking positives and spinning them as negatives because they keep getting owned at every turn. Doubling and tripling down on stupid takes.
 
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Gallagbi said:
And we lost big assets to make the cap work this year. If we aren't down one of the big 3 on D, it'll cost us again to make the numbers work.

Also weird you heard the same thing last year when there wasn't a big 3 on D and they had the cap to re-sign their current group going in to the year.
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What big assets were lost? A first, sure....but that's on Lou. Getting rid of Kadri for that package was a win.

Players are traded every year. He'll make next summer work like he made this summer work. I'm not worried about it. It's dumb to worry about a year away when a lot can change

Try enjoying this team. It's looking rather good!
 
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