Kyle Dubas appreciation / hot seat discussion ***Mod warning in OP***

[Leaf Fans]

Dubas homers only have JT signing to hang onto. Which is laughable. How long did Dubas have the job when the JT signing happened?Roger Rabbit could've been GM. But hey...gotta reach when defending a train wreck i guess..

Dubas homers? Did you just make that up? What does it mean?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Leafs fans are actually pathetic, what a bunch of babies.

At the end of the day, all those teams that signed their RFA's didn't have another player on their team making $11 million, so their internal cap obviously played a role.

So let me ask you, would you rather not have Tavares on this team, and have both Matthews and Marner take 2 million less?

Of course you wouldn't.

This is the price you have to pay to get a player like Tavares, and you do it 10/10 times.

I keep hearing about how Tampa and Boston will be able to add deadline help. Who cares, none of those guys will ever be a someone like Tavares' level, and a powerhouse team like the Bolts still got swept in the first round. The team that won the Stanely Cup last year, how many major additions did they make during the TDL?

That's the NHL playoffs for you.

How would the Leafs stack up to the rest of the contenders without Tavares? Not well.

Regardless of how people feel about Dubas handling these negotiations, the Leafs had a different internal cap than the rest of the teams it is how it is.

But I have a hard time ripping a guy that...

Signed Tavares
Kept the big 3 for at least 5 years
Drafted Sandin
Got rid of every bad contract on poor players

That's amazing for someone in his first 2 years.

This place makes me sick.

Actually he engineered:

Sandin
Muzzin
Barrie at half price
Cici

Quite the makeover

 

[Gabriel426]

No. The team is great. In SPITE of Dubas’s contracts. Not because of them.

Our “great” team would be ****ing legendary with a good gm. And that’s what bothers me the most.

And sure. If they win a cup, then none of this matters. But if they don’t, I’ll know the reason why.

Not saying I don’t agree with you but say Matthews signed for his amount but for 8yrs. Willie signed for 6.35mil/7yrs and Marner signed for 9mil/8yrs. That’s like saving 3.5mil. The difference between McBackup and Hutch is about 0.8mil. Say Dubas signed McBackup as the backup, the remaining is 2.7mil. For argument sake, Ferland(signed 3.5mil/3yrs for the Nucks) ended up signing with the Leafs for 2.7mil.

No doubt the Leafs is a better team with Ferland and McBackup but I think those are not pieces that will ensure Leafs winning the Cup.
I think if the Leafs are going to win the Cup, Andersen needs to be a much better playoff goalie than he had shown, Reilly need to be that horse on the backend, JT, AM, Marner and Willie needs at their best game in and game out.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Far from a fan of the Marner deal, but Dubas' record as a whole is still positive. The bulk of what he's done has been good. The RFA signings can definitely be criticized, but that's one thing. And, like I've said before, of all the meaningful mistakes a GM can make, that one ranks pretty much at the bottom.

It seems from my vantage point that some latch on to anything they can to justify some immediate dislike for Dubas. If giving an overpay to a superstar is your benchmark for what is unacceptable from a GM, there's just no one that will satisfy. All of them with any kind of track record has done worse, like bigger overpayments to much, much worse players.

It's something to criticize, but the moment you make that into everything that matters, that's when you stop being rational.

I know, I know. People will bring up a few other things:

- McElhinney. Dubas decided to not go with the 35-year old with a track record of mediocrity after one short season of great play, at an age where ~98% of all goalies fall off severely.
- Tavares. Somehow Dubas is the only GM to not get credit, good or bad, for signing a UFA. That's despite plenty of evidence to the contrary.
- Marner. I have no idea how some of the most cynical posters here suddenly believe that Marner was willing to take a good deal last season, in what is the most obvious of propaganda moves and after-constructs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Far from a fan of the Marner deal, but Dubas' record as a whole is still positive. The bulk of what he's done has been good.

Sums it up perfectly, end of story.

This roster is so stacked it's ridiculous. I could easily see this team finishing 1st overall and then winning the cup. Would be cool to come back and revisit some of the nonsense posted here but I doubt I'll take the time.

I really hate the Marner contract but I think I'm starting to get over it. This roster is really something else and I think we're in for a treat this season!

 

[kb]

Sums it up perfectly, end of story.

This roster is so stacked it's ridiculous. I could easily see this team finishing 1st overall and then winning the cup. Would be cool to come back and revisit some of the nonsense posted here but I doubt I'll take the time.

I really hate the Marner contract but I think I'm starting to get over it. This roster is really something else and I think we're in for a treat this season!

I think we are in for a treat. I see a much better balanced team with depth. It looks like the Leafs may be able to tilt the ice because the D can all make a first pass, and I saw almost no evidence of the stretch pass in preseason. Lots of possession and forwards coming back to provide safe outlets.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I HATE the Marner contract. AM was a bit of an over-pay, and I think Willy's deal will prove to be very good
I don't think there's anything else in my mind, worth criticizing. But it's time to show some results in the playoffs

 

[Fogelhund]

I HATE the Marner contract. AM was a bit of an over-pay, and I think Willy's deal will prove to be very good
I don't think there's anything else in my mind, worth criticizing. But it's time to show some results in the playoffs

That's all that matters... how does this team do in the playoffs. How they perform. We win the cup, and nobody will care who got paid what.

 

[deletethis]

Pointing out how modestly Rantanen (and Point) produced at even strength is a valid discussion point.

Regardless Dubas has a very high percentage of his payroll invested into 3 players (41%). The next closest team with their highest trio is Chicago (Kane, Toews, Keith) at 34%. The difference calculates out to be $5.7M or what is an impactful player or 2 legit support players.

It's going to cause persistent headaches for several years until the cap rises significantly.

 

[rumman]

Saying “our previous gm’s sucked as well” doesn’t make me feel any better about Dubas sucking as gm.

I've never understood the logic behind comparing a inferior product to a even more inferior product?

 

[al secord]

Saying “our previous gm’s sucked as well” doesn’t make me feel any better about Dubas sucking as gm.

If I sucked this bad at my job I'd be in for quite the promotion.

 

[rumman]

I've never seen so much doom and gloom over a team likely to finish top 5, possibly top 3.

way back when I was a apprentice my Union Stewart imparted on me some wise words: "never let them know your happy" I didn't understand what he was talking about then, but soon understood. Always hold the "man" accountable, on a daily basis. It's easier to push them a inch than to drag them a mile. Some here might understand, others not so much.

 

[deletethis]

Not saying I don’t agree with you but say Matthews signed for his amount but for 8yrs. Willie signed for 6.35mil/7yrs and Marner signed for 9mil/8yrs. That’s like saving 3.5mil. The difference between McBackup and Hutch is about 0.8mil. Say Dubas signed McBackup as the backup, the remaining is 2.7mil. For argument sake, Ferland(signed 3.5mil/3yrs for the Nucks) ended up signing with the Leafs for 2.7mil.

No doubt the Leafs is a better team with Ferland and McBackup but I think those are not pieces that will ensure Leafs winning the Cup.
I think if the Leafs are going to win the Cup, Andersen needs to be a much better playoff goalie than he had shown, Reilly need to be that horse on the backend, JT, AM, Marner and Willie needs at their best game in and game out.

Saving 3.5M creates space for an even more generously paid player: 3.5M + 0.7M (cost of the player being replaced) - 4.2M

 

[4thline]

way back when I was a apprentice my Union Stewart imparted on me some wise words: "never let them know your happy" I didn't understand what he was talking about then, but soon understood. Always hold the "man" accountable, on a daily basis. It's easier to push them a inch than to drag them a mile. Some here might understand, others not so much.

Cuz f*** the big picture and sustainable business, give me more now amirite?

 

[rumman]

No. The team is great. In SPITE of Dubas’s contracts. Not because of them.

Our “great” team would be ****ing legendary with a good gm. And that’s what bothers me the most.

And sure. If they win a cup, then none of this matters. But if they don’t, I’ll know the reason why.

exactly how I feel, if this team wins a Cup, he's a genius, if not questions have to be asked why. That goes for the players/coach/president/ownership as well.

 

[deletethis]

I've never understood the logic behind comparing a inferior product to a even more inferior product?

"Sure Pepsi is way worse than Coke but it sure as heck is better than Cott Cola (actually it isn't)."

 

[rumman]

Dubas was rolled by three successive agents, no question.

That said, I’m looking at our D this year compared to last and see two big legit top 4 adds via trade, a kid he drafted looking like a home run and he got rid of Zaitsev for what looks an upgrade. With a Dermott coming back soon, on paper it’s a WAY better D this year and he’s largely responsible. Our D was our biggest liability, Dubas has done a good job addressing it, credit deserved.

short term I agree, still think the team needs more bite, but then again I'm a dinosaur...........

 

[Trapper]

I HATE the Marner contract. AM was a bit of an over-pay, and I think Willy's deal will prove to be very good
I don't think there's anything else in my mind, worth criticizing. But it's time to show some results in the playoffs

Marner is an overpayment.
Great player but at present doesn’t score goals like Tkachuk,Rantanen,Point,etc.

I have no doubt Nylander could have achieved the level of assists playing with JT all year but so far both Marner and Nylander come in at 20 some goals. I don’t think there is 3+ million in talent level difference between the 2.

I know these guys want to be paid but structuring your team where the core leaves you 4 some million to play with equals better players at core D positions.

Like Tampa can afford to add another quality piece with the structure.

There is a fine line between getting paid and getting championships.

 

[rumman]

Cuz **** the big picture and sustainable business, give me more now amirite?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Pointing out how modestly Rantanen (and Point) produced at even strength is a valid discussion point.

Regardless Dubas has a very high percentage of his payroll invested into 3 players (41%). The next closest team with their highest trio is Chicago (Kane, Toews, Keith) at 34%. The difference calculates out to be $5.7M or what is an impactful player or 2 legit support players.

It's going to cause persistent headaches for several years until the cap rises significantly.

If persistent headaches means icing rosters like then the one we have now, I really don't see the problem.

way back when I was a apprentice my Union Stewart imparted on me some wise words: "never let them know your happy" I didn't understand what he was talking about then, but soon understood. Always hold the "man" accountable, on a daily basis. It's easier to push them a inch than to drag them a mile. Some here might understand, others not so much.

How is anonymously posting something positive about the team going to make Dubas less accountable? We're just chewing the fat here, I'm pretty sure nobody cares.

"Sure Pepsi is way worse than Coke but it sure as heck is better than Cott Cola (actually it isn't)."

Reminds me of the story about when Cott was going to be coming out with a new lolly-pop, they were going to be called Cott-suckers.

 

[Pilky01]

Dubas can't handle the pressure of working in Toronto. That is why he buckles gives out blank cheques to our RFAs.

 

[kb]

Dubas can't handle the pressure of working in Toronto. That is why he buckles gives out blank cheques to our RFAs.

Lol

 

[4thline]

View attachment 258755

Damn, you remember 1937? Kudos on mastering the computer. Hell kudos on being alive.

In all seriousness though, unions played a huge role in history, and no one should take the reforms they won for granted.

But the reforms have been won, and in large part the mentality that was needed then is toxic now, and has no place in a well run organization.

 

[Mess]

That's all that matters... how does this team do in the playoffs. How they perform. We win the cup, and nobody will care who got paid what.

Agreed

Sports is a results oriented business and in the end it will not be the individual transactions but rather the results of the team that Dubas will be judged on.

Some of the contracts might make winning more difficult when cap management issues impact the results and depth is tested when injuries occur.

So as a healthy team at present Leafs have the potential to make some noise.

 

[rumman]

How is anonymously posting something positive about the team going to make Dubas less accountable? We're just chewing the fat here, I'm pretty sure nobody cares.

I agree we're all "just chewing the fat here," but nobody cares? Express a opinion questioning the direction the GM is moving the team is equated to "hatred," have a opinion different the the majority of the sheep and your labeled as negative, I could go on, but you get the gist.