Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

[beastintheeast]

On his own Weir would bring back next to nothing but I meant to say put him in a package and see what happens.

The challenge you guys have, though, is that you really do not have the players to put together a package deal for a star player without draining what you have.

You really donot have a great depth of OHL ready players

 

[frontsfan67]

The challenge you guys have, though, is that you really do not have the players to put together a package deal for a star player without draining what you have.

You really donot have a great depth of OHL ready players

We have a good top 9 but that 4th line isn’t ohl calibre yet

 

[beastintheeast]

We have a good top 9 but that 4th line isn’t ohl calibre yet

I agree you have a top 6; I'm not sure about 9. The issue, though, in a trade for a player like Musty is that Sudbury is not going to be looking for a fourth-line player; they are going to be looking for a player who fills their needs as well as picks. You can also be assured that Musty is going to have some say although minimal at this stage.

He does evidently have the ability to play in Europe if SJS decide that is the better idea then sitting at home. Not sure how the BCHL or USHL would fit into the equation.

 

[PuckLucker]

I agree you have a top 6; I'm not sure about 9. The issue, though, in a trade for a player like Musty is that Sudbury is not going to be looking for a fourth-line player; they are going to be looking for a player who fills their needs as well as picks. You can also be assured that Musty is going to have some say although minimal at this stage.

He does evidently have the ability to play in Europe if SJS decide that is the better idea then sitting at home. Not sure how the BCHL or USHL would fit into the equation.

Agreed on the top 6.
To make this trade work an organization like Kingston would actually have to overpay in order to get a player to land here. You can't have your cake and eat it too, in order to get a player like Musty, get ready to open up your wallet and pay up.

I did hear that Kingston had the best deal on the table for Wakely but he was hoping for a better landing spot which should be announced today or tomorrow.

The GM and coach on this team need to wake up and smell the coffee, especially the head coach. How you treat players spreads very quickly through the league.
The Fronts need to build a better culture if they ever hope to compete at a high level (higher than .500) or go on a Mem Cup run.

 

[zaluty]

Jeff Marek reporting Wakely has gone to Barrie for Shamar Moses and picks

 

[frontsfan67]

Jeff Marek reporting Wakely has gone to Barrie for Shamar Moses and picks

Hate to be a downer especially in October but there’s no way kingston can compete with Oshawa, Brampton or Barrie. None of those 3 are done adding yet either. Is there a point in going all in to potentially get 4th or 5th, MAYBE win a round and then go out in round 2? I think they should do a light sell (burns, miedema) and focus on next year.

They’ll have better OA’s going into next year so they won’t have to worry too much about those trades, they’ll have a crap ton of picks and they’ll have Hopkins as an 18 year old, Battaglia as a 19 year old.

 

[Petes1987]

[

Hate to be a downer especially in October but there’s no way kingston can compete with Oshawa, Brampton or Barrie. None of those 3 are done adding yet either. Is there a point in going all in to potentially get 4th or 5th, MAYBE win a round and then go out in round 2? I think they should do a light sell (burns, miedema) and focus on next year.

They’ll have better OA’s going into next year so they won’t have to worry too much about those trades, they’ll have a crap ton of picks and they’ll have Hopkins as an 18 year old, Battaglia as a 19 year old.

First in the division is still up for grabs if Oshawa does not get Calum Ritchie and Dylan Roobroeck back combine that with the fact that they only have enough assets to acquire one big name or two smaller ones they will not be in the same class as Barrie and Brampton.

 

[OMG67]

Hate to be a downer especially in October but there’s no way kingston can compete with Oshawa, Brampton or Barrie. None of those 3 are done adding yet either. Is there a point in going all in to potentially get 4th or 5th, MAYBE win a round and then go out in round 2? I think they should do a light sell (burns, miedema) and focus on next year.

They’ll have better OA’s going into next year so they won’t have to worry too much about those trades, they’ll have a crap ton of picks and they’ll have Hopkins as an 18 year old, Battaglia as a 19 year old.

This is why I have been advocating for Kingston to take a status quo approach until the holiday break. Take a snapshot of the landscape in the Conference, then make a decision on how to proceed. LEt the big dogs take their bite early. At least you will know where you stand. All the cards will be face up by then.

[
First in the division is still up for grabs if Oshawa does not get Calum Ritchie and Dylan Roobroeck back combine that with the fact that they only have enough assets to acquire one big name or two smaller ones they will not be in the same class as Barrie and Brampton.

Once Ritchie returns, and he will return, they will have a solid roster that likely requires one or two D-Men. They have the requisite top end talent that is required in the playoffs. The only questions right now are when Ritchie returns and whether Roobroeck returns. If they get both of those guys back soon, they will be a really tough team to handle once they shore up the defence.

 

[frontsfan67]

This is why I have been advocating for Kingston to take a status quo approach until the holiday break. Take a snapshot of the landscape in the Conference, then make a decision on how to proceed. LEt the big dogs take their bite early. At least you will know where you stand. All the cards will be face up by then.

They have no other choice right now. All the good players they might’ve had a chance of getting are gone. Think Romani definitely brings in an ‘08 at deadline, musty prob doesn’t want to come to Kingston and I’m not sure Kingston would be willing to take on a guy that’s all about himself considering they got rid of Thibodeau and frasca.

Fronts are screwed plain and simple. Only way they can maybe compete is if they bring in Andonovski AND Gibson and I’m sure both will be very expensive and both may command a ‘08 which the fronts don’t have. Again- they’re screwed.

Getting Guindon was never going to be enough but they had to get a vet after losing both ludwinski and frasca so it made sense.

 

[dirty12]

Hate to be a downer especially in October but there’s no way kingston can compete with Oshawa, Brampton or Barrie. None of those 3 are done adding yet either. Is there a point in going all in to potentially get 4th or 5th, MAYBE win a round and then go out in round 2? I think they should do a light sell (burns, miedema) and focus on next year.

They’ll have better OA’s going into next year so they won’t have to worry too much about those trades, they’ll have a crap ton of picks and they’ll have Hopkins as an 18 year old, Battaglia as a 19 year old.

Just kidnap Musty and trade for McCoy

 

[PuckLucker]

They have no other choice right now. All the good players they might’ve had a chance of getting are gone. Think Romani definitely brings in an ‘08 at deadline, musty prob doesn’t want to come to Kingston and I’m not sure Kingston would be willing to take on a guy that’s all about himself considering they got rid of Thibodeau and frasca.

Fronts are screwed plain and simple. Only way they can maybe compete is if they bring in Andonovski AND Gibson and I’m sure both will be very expensive and both may command a ‘08 which the fronts don’t have. Again- they’re screwed.

Getting Guindon was never going to be enough but they had to get a vet after losing both ludwinski and frasca so it made sense.

You're speaking with a lot of common sense and reading the room based on what other teams have done so far in terms of securing wants and needs to have a strong regular season and beyond.

The same management and coaching staff that added last year at the Trade deadline sitting in 7th place, will more than likely add again this year. To what degree, that remains to be seen.

Just my $0.02

Congrats to Gavin Betts, 1 of 2 OHL goalies invited to U17 Hockey Challenge.
2.52 GAA and .931 Save % with Pickering Panthers early on this season.

19 OHL Players to Represent Canada at 2024 World Under-17 Hockey Challenge - Ontario Hockey League

A total of 19 OHL players will represent Canada at the 2024 World Under-17 Hockey Challenge starting November 3rd in Sarnia.

chl.ca

 

[ScoutLife4]

Anyone been following Caleb Maholtra? Doesn't seem to be doing much in the BCHL.
1pt in 6 Games.

 

[OMG67]

They have no other choice right now. All the good players they might’ve had a chance of getting are gone. Think Romani definitely brings in an ‘08 at deadline, musty prob doesn’t want to come to Kingston and I’m not sure Kingston would be willing to take on a guy that’s all about himself considering they got rid of Thibodeau and frasca.

Fronts are screwed plain and simple. Only way they can maybe compete is if they bring in Andonovski AND Gibson and I’m sure both will be very expensive and both may command a ‘08 which the fronts don’t have. Again- they’re screwed.

Getting Guindon was never going to be enough but they had to get a vet after losing both ludwinski and frasca so it made sense.

I sort of agree with @dirty12 with respect to Kingston. They are a bigger team in the key areas. If they manage to get solid goaltending, they do have enough size that they could be more of a handful in the playoffs. With the right acquisitions, they could be competitive. It still comes down to how far the other teams go but I think you are correct. They need at least one of Gibson or Andonovski. Plus they need a centre, preferably one that can play as the 1C and push Guindon down to 2C. That is where Wakely would have come into play. I am not sure what other Centres of that quality will hit the market. It looks like it is mostly wingers.

Kingston has the picks but I don’t think they have the players to be able to make those trades. Hopkins will play 3C and you cannot trade him. I doubt the remainder of your ‘07s would push a needle and the only ‘06 you could potentially use (Williamson), you need to keep. I think the handcuffing starts and ends with no ‘08 1st round pick. Picks are great but you can’t buy everything you need with them. Certain players require other players as part of the package. But, I think if the Fronts are patient, there may be a couple teams standing at the end looking to sell players and the only chair left when the music stops could be Kingston. In that situation, Kingston holds the cards and can leverage the draft picks. That is pretty much what Guelph did in 2019. Last team standing ended up with Suzuki for peanuts.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Not getting Wakely is an absolute godsent to this teams future after hearing what was offered.
I'm not going to name the player. But it was a roster player, 2 2nds, 2 3rds, 2 4ths.
This is why i thought it would be close to the same from Barrie.

Losing all those picks to lose to Oshawa, Brampton or Barrie would not make a lot of sense.
Kingston is in shock that NB accepted that deal but it had to do more with the players request so out of their control.

 

[OMG67]

Not getting Wakely is an absolute godsent to this teams future after hearing what was offered.
I'm not going to name the player. But it was a roster player, 2 2nds, 2 3rds, 2 4ths.
This is why i thought it would be close to the same from Barrie.

Losing all those picks to lose to Oshawa, Brampton or Barrie would not make a lot of sense.
Kingston is in shock that NB accepted that deal but it had to do more with the players request so out of their control.

Wakely is a good player but six picks is pretty much the max for a player like that. That equates to Logan Morrison. Adding a live body to that as well would be crazy.

 

[leafs4life94]

Not getting Wakely is an absolute godsent to this teams future after hearing what was offered.
I'm not going to name the player. But it was a roster player, 2 2nds, 2 3rds, 2 4ths.
This is why i thought it would be close to the same from Barrie.

Losing all those picks to lose to Oshawa, Brampton or Barrie would not make a lot of sense.
Kingston is in shock that NB accepted that deal but it had to do more with the players request so out of their control.

Definitely comforting that if that was the offer that it didn't get accepted, but that does not inspire confidence because I worry that it means they'll be overly aggressive buying for the rest of the year...

 

[ScoutLife4]

I sort of agree with @dirty12 with respect to Kingston. They are a bigger team in the key areas. If they manage to get solid goaltending, they do have enough size that they could be more of a handful in the playoffs. With the right acquisitions, they could be competitive. It still comes down to how far the other teams go but I think you are correct. They need at least one of Gibson or Andonovski. Plus they need a centre, preferably one that can play as the 1C and push Guindon down to 2C. That is where Wakely would have come into play. I am not sure what other Centres of that quality will hit the market. It looks like it is mostly wingers.

Kingston has the picks but I don’t think they have the players to be able to make those trades. Hopkins will play 3C and you cannot trade him. I doubt the remainder of your ‘07s would push a needle and the only ‘06 you could potentially use (Williamson), you need to keep. I think the handcuffing starts and ends with no ‘08 1st round pick. Picks are great but you can’t buy everything you need with them. Certain players require other players as part of the package. But, I think if the Fronts are patient, there may be a couple teams standing at the end looking to sell players and the only chair left when the music stops could be Kingston. In that situation, Kingston holds the cards and can leverage the draft picks. That is pretty much what Guelph did in 2019. Last team standing ended up with Suzuki for peanuts.

Only issue with that is Gibson does not want to be traded according to his agent.
He wants to finish out his season, miss the playoffs and report to Milwaukee.
I doubt he gets moved at this point.

 

[OMG67]

Only issue with that is Gibson does not want to be traded according to his agent.
He wants to finish out his season, miss the playoffs and report to Milwaukee.
I doubt he gets moved at this point.

Wow. That’s not good for SSM. I’m not sure I want that guy then. If he is more concerned about going through the motions this season and then move on to Pro ASAP. I’m not sure how I would handle that if I were SSM. I’d probably slip him down the priority chart and allow others to get more opportunity.

EDI: He’s a 4th round pick. Likely wouldn’t have a no trade clause. I’d move him anyway, especially if he is just going through the motions. The question is would anyone want him?

 

[beastintheeast]

This is turing out to be the year Kington needs not necessarily what you want.

Kingston needs a year where they show that they
are interested indeveloping their players
Have s coaching and GM situation that has learned
Have s system
Going to be a consistent contender.

If they can do that and have a good showing in the playoffs and standings, that will go a long way.

Also, building that consistent team with a good coach for a long haul will allow them to get the players they need.

They can also market to first-round picks that they are building a team to compete for the M Cup host and or make the M Cup Through the draft


It helps if parents know tht their child is going to be a key part. Also, it is something that an agent can sell to his player. BUT they have to get rid of the idea that they have to trade their first round picks if they are going to build.

 

[beastintheeast]

Anyone been following Caleb Maholtra? Doesn't seem to be doing much in the BCHL.
1pt in 6 Games.

A rookie is not going to be playing top minutes, and it is only 6 games, so take it easy. He probably would get fewer minutes and have about the same stats if he had of stayed

 

[leafs4life94]

This is turing out to be the year Kington needs not necessarily what you want.

Kingston needs a year where they show that they
are interested indeveloping their players
Have s coaching and GM situation that has learned
Have s system
Going to be a consistent contender.

If they can do that and have a good showing in the playoffs and standings, that will go a long way.

Also, building that consistent team with a good coach for a long haul will allow them to get the players they need.

They can also market to first-round picks that they are building a team to compete for the M Cup host and or make the M Cup Through the draft


It helps if parents know tht their child is going to be a key part. Also, it is something that an agent can sell to his player. BUT they have to get rid of the idea that they have to trade their first round picks if they are going to build.

The thing is who cares if it looks like you're building a team if the team you build never does anything.

No player is ever going to want to go to a team that never commits to trying to win a championship.

There's no team other than London that is a consistent contender - every other team has bad years here and there, Peterborough and Kitchener now, Oshawa a couple years back. The difference with those teams is that there's a confidence that they can rebuild.

As far as the coach - I have no idea what Mann's long term plans are - but you run the risk of a coach leaving to the NHL. As a former pro coach I'd have to imagine his end goal is to get back into the pro ranks. The thing you'd want is a consistent system where you develop assistants that can take over if the head coach leaves to go pro.

Kingston has shown in the last couple years that they cannot draft well - the '05 draft was solid but it's been awful in the three years since (jury is obviously still out on the '08s but no 1st isn't a good start). If they can't draft, the only way to acquire players is via trades, and you have to give value to get value.

Based off that Wakely offer posted earlier Kingston hasn't learned anything and if they buy like that the year they "need" will tank this team for at least 2-3 years.

 

[OMG67]

The thing is who cares if it looks like you're building a team if the team you build never does anything.

No player is ever going to want to go to a team that never commits to trying to win a championship.

There's no team other than London that is a consistent contender - every other team has bad years here and there, Peterborough and Kitchener now, Oshawa a couple years back. The difference with those teams is that there's a confidence that they can rebuild.

As far as the coach - I have no idea what Mann's long term plans are - but you run the risk of a coach leaving to the NHL. As a former pro coach I'd have to imagine his end goal is to get back into the pro ranks. The thing you'd want is a consistent system where you develop assistants that can take over if the head coach leaves to go pro.

Kingston has shown in the last couple years that they cannot draft well - the '05 draft was solid but it's been awful in the three years since (jury is obviously still out on the '08s but no 1st isn't a good start). If they can't draft, the only way to acquire players is via trades, and you have to give value to get value.

Based off that Wakely offer posted earlier Kingston hasn't learned anything and if they buy like that the year they "need" will tank this team for at least 2-3 years.

Some aspects of this are bang on. Kingston has not drafted well. A lot of that likely has to do with lack of resources provided by ownership. Some of it has to do with employing a rookie GM that is learning on the job. If you cannot draft consistently well, you are destined to struggle consistently.

Where I differ in your assessment is at the beginning. A strong culture starts with loyalty and commitment. That loyalty and commitment goes both ways. Teams with strong coaches that foster a strong culture that carries over year after year have less issues. They have more consistency. Their players develop at a faster rate. The player ceilings are often expanded. When players understand the expectations and are prepared to work, they are often rewarded with loyalty and fair treatment. That goes a long way.

So, when you have an organization that is properly grounded, you attract players. Part of that is being consistently competitive. Kingston has not been consistently competitive over the last 15 years. The current management is facing the consequences of the previous management’s inability to develop a strong culture. The onus is now on this management and coaching staff to demonstrate they are capable. That starts with being capable on the ice…year after year.

Any clown can sell players off for three years, bottom out, build a big war chest of draft picks, draft top 4 2-3 years in a row and spend like a sailor at port one year and be a contender. Then spend the next six years rebuilding do the same ting over again. That isn’t difficult. The difficulty is drafting well year after year, getting the players to report, and then hand them over to a coach that is capable of getting the most out of the players.

I believe they have the right coach. But, that coach needs a couple seasons to build that culture. Then, when you want to make a run, you won’t have guys like Wakely going, “Kingston? Ummmm… NO thanks.”

 

[beastintheeast]

The thing is who cares if it looks like you're building a team if the team you build never does anything.

No player is ever going to want to go to a team that never commits to trying to win a championship.

I realize I am dating myself, but there are many teams that work to be championship teams and never sell the farm.

Ottawa, NB, are 2 of them. Oshawa is usually never that long out of things. But the players will report because they want to win games and more importantly they want to develop so tht they have a chance at PRO hockey after they leave the OHL.

There's no team other than London that is a consistent contender - every other team has bad years here and there, Peterborough and Kitchener now, Oshawa a couple years back. The difference with those teams is that there's a confidence that they can rebuild.

As far as the coach - I have no idea what Mann's long term plans are - but you run the risk of a coach leaving to the NHL. As a former pro coach I'd have to imagine his end goal is to get back into the pro ranks. The thing you'd want is a consistent system where you develop assistants that can take over if the head coach leaves to go pro.

Kingston has shown in the last couple years that they cannot draft well - the '05 draft was solid but it's been awful in the three years since (jury is obviously still out on the '08s but no 1st isn't a good start). If they can't draft, the only way to acquire players is via trades, and you have to give value to get value.

Based off that Wakely offer posted earlier Kingston hasn't learned anything and if they buy like that the year they "need" will tank this team for at least 2-3 years.

No agent is going to say draft my star player, play him minimally, do not develop him and then trade him as part of a deal to another team so that you can suck for 3 years.

Kingston did that under Mav and Gilmour. How did they do? How many players said that they would not report if drafted? Take a look at the talent that they ended up drafting because stars would not report.

Malhorta might have reported is the team had the developmental skills and a better reputation.

How many people here have talked about you need to trade your 08 to get the stud you need. If that is the attitude of the team, then agents are going to say sorry for not reporting to trade him now Or now move to a different league.

The only reason that you got Shane Wright was that he had no choice he had to report here. I would bet looking at Caputi he probably wished he did not have to.

If you want a fan base, you need to bring in good players. If you want to have a realistic chance at hosting tournaments like the M Cup, you need a team with a consistent plan.

Wakely will want to join a team that will help him develop further or win. Kingston is on that team.

If Kington wants to be treated as a serious place to lay, then they need to set up a serious system. Right now, the rookie GM sees the pitfalls and has learned, we hope, from his mistakes.

Mann is establishing a work ethic and system. The assistants that he has are also learning his system so that if he gets an offer, and I don't see that happening for a couple of years, they can step in.


Kingston fans, and for 21 years, I was one do not care about building and rebuilding. They are not going to buy season tickets if they know the product will be good this year and suck the next 3. It is not worth it.

OHL fans want a night out that will not break the bank. They want a night out where they know they will be entertained. I'm not sure how many people remember MisterDB, but one of the reasons he quit, besides cost, was that the team was going to be pathetic.

You guys are lucky there is only university and military hockey to compete against. But can you say tht if you trade away the future of the team the team will be worth the dollar value next year?

 

[Donnie740]

First in the division is still up for grabs if Oshawa does not get Calum Ritchie and Dylan Roobroeck back combine that with the fact that they only have enough assets to acquire one big name or two smaller ones they will not be in the same class as Barrie and Brampton.

Is your objective to win a division title or to win a Memorial Cup?

Because even if Oshawa doesn’t get Ritchie back and falls apart, Kingston still doesn’t have any hope of competing with Brampton or Barrie to win the conference. And even if by some miracle they managed to come out of the East, Kingston doesn’t have a hope in hell of getting past London.

It’s the same situation for Brantford as well. Which is why the only logical move for both Kingston and Brantford is to sell off and build for a run next year.

 

[OMG67]

Is your objective to win a division title or to win a Memorial Cup?

Because even if Oshawa doesn’t get Ritchie back and falls apart, Kingston still doesn’t have any hope of competing with Brampton or Barrie to win the conference. And even if by some miracle they managed to come out of the East, Kingston doesn’t have a hope in hell of getting past London.

It’s the same situation for Brantford as well. Which is why the only logical move for both Kingston and Brantford is to sell off and build for a run next year.

Brantford is building for next year. They won’t sell off because the players they have of value are returning. If they buy, they will buy two year players.