Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[beastintheeast]

Pieniniemi confirmed sent back to Kingston by Pittsburgh today as expected.

Realistically if there was any chance he'd stick in the AHL I can't imagine they would've signed him so early.

This means that he needs a fair amount of training the good thing.

Hopefully, this is an omen that this team is going to do something good this year.

I just hope Springer does not go nuts and demand major trades.

 

[frontsfan67]

This means that he needs a fair amount of training the good thing.

Hopefully, this is an omen that this team is going to do something good this year.

I just hope Springer does not go nuts and demand major trades.

Was told early on they’re going for it. Think they’re going all out this year regardless of other teams adding too and a big rebuild year next year- trading valuable OA’s and building around the ‘09 group (2FRP- 3 when they trade Battaglia)

 

[OMG67]

Was told early on they’re going for it. Think they’re going all out this year regardless of other teams adding too and a big rebuild year next year- trading valuable OA’s and building around the ‘09 group (2FRP- 3 when they trade Battaglia)

 

[beastintheeast]

Was told early on they’re going for it. Think they’re going all out this year regardless of other teams adding too and a big rebuild year next year- trading valuable OA’s and building around the ‘09 group (2FRP- 3 when they trade Battaglia)

And yet people on here keep asking why the fan base is so low.

Cany anyone really sees this team, with the offense, goaltending, and defence, competing for first place.

Let me guess you are going to trade Buttar, MCuaig, Soto, Moore and all your picks next year and tghe year after for 5 ringers that will elevate this team to a championship at the deadline.

Desoto, a 2nd and a 3rd for player X
Buttar, MCCuaig and 4 picks 3 2nd round picks and a 3rf for Player Y and Z
trade picks for a so-so player
Then trade for 2 defencemen that will anchor your team using draft picks.

Yeah it is a great plan Sounds good

How did it work out in 2018

I actually think Helvig was a better goalie than Vaccari is

 

[frontsfan67]

And yet people on here keep asking why the fan base is so low.

Cany anyone really sees this team, with the offense, goaltending, and defence, competing for first place.

Let me guess you are going to trade Buttar, MCuaig, Soto, Moore and all your picks next year and tghe year after for 5 ringers that will elevate this team to a championship at the deadline.

No lol why would they trade the young guys. They need to go young next year after having one of the oldest teams in the league this year. Every team has to rebuild. Atleast they’ll be going though a rebuild year with Mann and not Caputi.


No point in going for it next year when half the team is graduating including your top 2 d man- #1 centre (right now) and an NHL drafted goalie- if they went for it next year they would be worse off than this year. Best thing to do is restock the picks you use this year, go younger and push for 2026/27(manns last year with the team and the year the OHL gets to host the mem cup)


Soto however would be a coveted veteran some team would love and pay top dollar for. Same with McNamara

How did it work out in 2018

Went the furthest the teams ever been

I actually think Helvig was a better goalie than Vaccari is

Well I’d certainly hope so- helvig won goalie of the year, leads the franchise in wins, shutouts and games played.

 

[beastintheeast]

No lol why would they trade the young guys. They need to go young next year after having one of the oldest teams in the league this year. Every team has to rebuild. Atleast they’ll be going though a rebuild year with Mann and not Caputi.

That is what you gave up in 18

No point in going for it next year when half the team is graduating including your top 2 d man- #1 centre (right now) and an NHL drafted goalie- if they went for it next year they would be worse off than this year. Best thing to do is restock the picks you use this year, go younger and push for 2026/27(manns last year with the team and the year the OHL gets to host the mem cup)

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO GO FOR IT AT ALL. This team should be looking at putting together a consistently entertaining and competitive team. Yes you may get a few more butts in seats for the last part of the season BUT you are gong to lose those butts and more next year when the team sucks. That was the probelm with the 19 team the 18-19 was pathetic.

Soto however would be a coveted veteran some team would love and pay top dollar for. Same with McNamara

Went the furthest the teams ever been

But what have they looked like since.

Well I’d certainly hope so- helvig won goalie of the year, leads the franchise in wins, shutouts and games played.

My point is do you see Vaccari as a star that can play in tough games like Helvig did

 

[ScoutLife4]

That is what you gave up in 18





But what have they looked like since.

My point is do you see Vaccari as a star that can play in tough games like Helvig did

I don't think anyone is going to argue that they see Vaccari as a star goalie someday.
It's great to see the 67s boys with a bit of confidence after beating Kingstons JR A squad though.

I also can't make much sense starting Vaccari 2 nights in a row on less the 24h hours rest in pre season.

 

[leafs4life94]

I don't think anyone is going to argue that they see Vaccari as a star goalie someday.
It's great to see the 67s boys with a bit of confidence after beating Kingstons JR A squad though.

I also can't make much sense starting Vaccari 2 nights in a row on less the 24h hours rest in pre season.

If I had to guess it's because they wanted to make sure Betts stayed healthy? I know he was hurt most of last year, plus it helps that Vaccari did the back to back quite often last year so unfortunately he's used to it.

 

[frontsfan67]

That is what you gave up in 18

They went for it all the year before and ended up getting wright. Then a Covid year happened who knows what would’ve happened

But what have they looked like since.

My point is do you see Vaccari as a star that can play in tough games like Helvig did

I think it depends on defence which they need to improve.

I’ve seen vaccari win games that he shouldn’t have. If he can do it consistently is the big question

 

[beastintheeast]

They went for it all the year before and ended up getting wright. Then a Covid year happened who knows what would’ve happened

I think it depends on defence which they need to improve.

I’ve seen vaccari win games that he shouldn’t have. If he can do it consistently is the big question

My point is that if you look at the teams that always at the top it is because the develop players and have a cosistent sysem that does not drain them causing the Kingston cycle.

It's not just about appeasing a few people. It's about building a strong, supportive fan base in our city.


Most families that are going to come out on a regular basis do so for entertainment. TBH most don't care about the M Cup.

They just want to know that when they renew their season tickets, the product on the ice is going to entertain them.

If you want to attempt to get to the cup then keep selling the future.

If Kingston wants to be considered a city with a good team and host the M Cup then develop a system that is not so obviously flawed

 

[ScoutLife4]

My point is that if you look at the teams that always at the top it is because the develop players and have a cosistent sysem that does not drain them causing the Kingston cycle.

It's not just about appeasing a few people. It's about building a strong, supportive fan base in our city.


Most families that are going to come out on a regular basis do so for entertainment. TBH most don't care about the M Cup.

They just want to know that when they renew their season tickets, the product on the ice is going to entertain them.

If you want to attempt to get to the cup then keep selling the future.

If Kingston wants to be considered a city with a good team and host the M Cup then develop a system that is not so obviously flawed

Not every team can be a London, Oshawa, Brantford , Peterborough and have continued success like they do.

I’d say the last couple seasons Cooper has been in learning mode trying to find his place and learn the league.
He has also had a AGM that’s been learning the league with him so the experience the last couple years combined with a budget / low experience coach like Caputi was not a good combination.

I think the learning phase is done and he likely needs to show some results now to the Springers.

Especially after convincing the Springers to pay Mann which was not easy from what i understand.

 

[frontsfan67]

My point is that if you look at the teams that always at the top it is because the develop players and have a cosistent sysem that does not drain them causing the Kingston cycle.

It's not just about appeasing a few people. It's about building a strong, supportive fan base in our city.


Most families that are going to come out on a regular basis do so for entertainment. TBH most don't care about the M Cup.

They just want to know that when they renew their season tickets, the product on the ice is going to entertain them.

If you want to attempt to get to the cup then keep selling the future.

If Kingston wants to be considered a city with a good team and host the M Cup then develop a system that is not so obviously flawed

So you think it would be a better idea to waste the years of Soto, Battaglia, McNamara next year just to get a bottom 5 spot in the conference and go out in the first round? You think that is more logical rather than doing a full on rebuild around a bunch of 09s, a few decent 08’s? That is what’s best for the team and gives them the best shot at a championship which is every teams goal.

They can do those trades and still probably make the playoffs. Will they be a team making it on to the second round next year though? Absolutely not

would be better building around 08s, 09s and then not next year but the following season so 2026/2027 mem cup is in the OHL. Either go for it that year in Troy’s final year as coach or trade Hopkins get picks and push for the 2027/28 season when your 2/3 09 first round picks are 18 and guys like McQuaig, Kelly, Buttar are 19- Moore 20, weir 20 (if he doesn’t get drafted and is in the AHL by then)

 

[beastintheeast]

Not every team can be a London, Oshawa, Brantford , Peterborough and have continued success like they do.

I’d say the last couple seasons Cooper has been in learning mode trying to find his place and learn the league.
He has also had a AGM that’s been learning the league with him so the experience the last couple years combined with a budget / low experience coach like Caputi was not a good combination.

I think the learning phase is done and he likely needs to show some results now to the Springers.

Especially after convincing the Springers to pay Mann which was not easy from what i understand.

So you think it would be a better idea to waste the years of Soto, Battaglia, McNamara next year just to get a bottom 5 spot in the conference and go out in the first round? You think that is more logical rather than doing a full on rebuild around a bunch of 09s, a few decent 08’s? That is what’s best for the team and gives them the best shot at a championship which is every teams goal.

They can do those trades and still probably make the playoffs. Will they be a team making it on to the second round next year though? Absolutely not

would be better building around 08s, 09s and then not next year but the following season so 2026/2027 mem cup is in the OHL. Either go for it that year in Troy’s final year as coach or trade Hopkins get picks and push for the 2027/28 season when your 2/3 09 first round picks are 18 and guys like McQuaig, Kelly, Buttar are 19- Moore 20, weir 20 (if he doesn’t get drafted and is in the AHL by then)

From what I remember of Springer and yes he offered me a job looking after the mascot when they were at the M Center. He wants to make money. he wants to add value to his product.

There is prestige being the M Cup winner but can you buy a coffee at Tims with a M Cup ring.

People on here have complained about the lack of marketing and about the fact that the team is not a draw.

It should be it is the only real game in town for sports.

Why it isn't is because of the price location and the need for a consistent product.

Let's be honest with the Gens: Brampton, Barrie, and possibly Brantford all have good teams. The top 3 positions in the conf are filled.

Looking at this team it is not a contending team.

I understand that there are some people who think winning the M Cup is the be-all and end-all of a franchise's success.

I look at it from the perspective of the fan that puts his money down and wants to be entertained and see a consistent product.

Imagine that you loved a restaurant for 3 years it goes all out to build it's brand and get a 5 star rating. however, it only gets a 4 star, and the following year, the restaurant's food sucks because they are trying to reinvent the menu and have hired a new chef.

Would you still go to it.

If you want to get a fan base tht pays the money be it university, military corrections or the normal Joe you need to provide the people with an entertaining property.

You have to go back to what it was for many people when it was at the M Centre. It was Friday night hockey, cheering on the team as they won or as they fought (in the early years) . It was getting some of the Browns fries and coffee. It was meeting friends on a weekly basis to check in.

But it was knowing that in or lose the product on the ice was going to entertain you.

That doesn't happen with the 3 year rebuild.

FF
you are wrong you are not wasting anyone. These guys are here to develop into men, and some of them will be lucky enough to develop into good hockey players.

Next year, if you develop the players properly, you will not be a bottom 5 team. You will have a strong defence. Goaltending will be the same, and you will have great offence. I would suggest that next yers team if drafted and developed will be stronger than the on ice product you have ow minus Pie and possibly Burns

 

[ScoutLife4]

From what I remember of Springer and yes he offered me a job looking after the mascot when they were at the M Center. He wants to make money. he wants to add value to his product.

There is prestige being the M Cup winner but can you buy a coffee at Tims with a M Cup ring.

People on here have complained about the lack of marketing and about the fact that the team is not a draw.

It should be it is the only real game in town for sports.

Why it isn't is because of the price location and the need for a consistent product.

Let's be honest with the Gens: Brampton, Barrie, and possibly Brantford all have good teams. The top 3 positions in the conf are filled.

Looking at this team it is not a contending team.

I understand that there are some people who think winning the M Cup is the be-all and end-all of a franchise's success.

I look at it from the perspective of the fan that puts his money down and wants to be entertained and see a consistent product.

Imagine that you loved a restaurant for 3 years it goes all out to build it's brand and get a 5 star rating. however, it only gets a 4 star, and the following year, the restaurant's food sucks because they are trying to reinvent the menu and have hired a new chef.

Would you still go to it.

If you want to get a fan base tht pays the money be it university, military corrections or the normal Joe you need to provide the people with an entertaining property.

You have to go back to what it was for many people when it was at the M Centre. It was Friday night hockey, cheering on the team as they won or as they fought (in the early years) . It was getting some of the Browns fries and coffee. It was meeting friends on a weekly basis to check in.

But it was knowing that in or lose the product on the ice was going to entertain you.

That doesn't happen with the 3 year rebuild.

FF
you are wrong you are not wasting anyone. These guys are here to develop into men, and some of them will be lucky enough to develop into good hockey players.

Next year, if you develop the players properly, you will not be a bottom 5 team. You will have a strong defence. Goaltending will be the same, and you will have great offence. I would suggest that next yers team if drafted and developed will be stronger than the on ice product you have ow minus Pie and possibly Burns

I don’t get your comment about price and location.
It’s the same as every OHL team for ticket prices and the league controls the price structure and its downtown like pretty much every other arena is.
Strange that a week before the season starts you can be so sure this isn’t a contending team and the top 3-4 is already decided.
Can’t say I’ve heard that one before.

 

[beastintheeast]

I don’t get your comment about price and location.

It’s the same as every OHL team for ticket prices and the league controls the price structure and its downtown like pretty much every other arena is.

The price is what the fan is willing to pay for the entertainment. Yes it is downtown but considering that most people live and work on the west end it is still a trip that a person has to make to get to the game.

These things add up against whether it is worth my time and money to go to a game. Will it be more entertaining than other things we could do,

Strange that a week before the season starts you can be so sure this isn’t a contending team and the top 3-4 is already decided.
Can’t say I’ve heard that one before.

You have not been looking at the other teams or listening to what is being said. Brampton and barrie set this year as their year they have a much better line up. Yes Kington could be and should be in that group but as you dais ther have been no games played. Therefore the reverse is true How do you know this is the year to go for it? Are you going to measure up.

Also, what is going for it? Does it mean trading all your draft picks and young players?

my point is that people have to look at this from 2 different points of view.

I am a diehard and I want a championship team this year to hell with the next 2-3
or
I want to go see a team play and by season tickets because it is a good show every year.

My point is that if near december the Fronts find themselves in first then by all means make trades but if they re not an elite team then only make a few and build for next year.

 

[OMG67]

I don't think anyone is going to argue that they see Vaccari as a star goalie someday.
It's great to see the 67s boys with a bit of confidence after beating Kingstons JR A squad though.

I also can't make much sense starting Vaccari 2 nights in a row on less the 24h hours rest in pre season.

You mean jr A vs Jr A squads, right? Because neither team had nearly close to their “A” Squad….

 

[OMG67]

So you think it would be a better idea to waste the years of Soto, Battaglia, McNamara next year just to get a bottom 5 spot in the conference and go out in the first round? You think that is more logical rather than doing a full on rebuild around a bunch of 09s, a few decent 08’s? That is what’s best for the team and gives them the best shot at a championship which is every teams goal.

They can do those trades and still probably make the playoffs. Will they be a team making it on to the second round next year though? Absolutely not

would be better building around 08s, 09s and then not next year but the following season so 2026/2027 mem cup is in the OHL. Either go for it that year in Troy’s final year as coach or trade Hopkins get picks and push for the 2027/28 season when your 2/3 09 first round picks are 18 and guys like McQuaig, Kelly, Buttar are 19- Moore 20, weir 20 (if he doesn’t get drafted and is in the AHL by then)

I think the smart play is to let the team they have in the room now to go out and prove they have something worth while to invest in. If the team performs as anticipated and the landscape is lined up in a way where it makes sense to invest then go do it.

If the team doesn’t play as anticipated, it doesn’t matter how old the team is. Either they are good or they aren’t. If they aren’t as good as anticipated, then you don’t blindly burn assets for no good reason.

I don’t believe a team can trade their way into being good. You first need to be good and then to get really good, you add a couple key pieces. First prove you are good.

This is why I am so surprised Brampton and Barrie have already added key players. Neither team were particularly good last year. They were fine young teams but you know as well as me that sometimes teams don’t turn the corner and elevate their game with age.

It is odd to me that teams feel they need to add as many studs as possible this early. Teams suffer injuries and setbacks as well as uncover the odd player that is unexpected. Playing through Christmas allows teams to see what they truly have. What if Veliaris comes out and makes a giant leap forward? He proves to be a more than capable 2nd pairing guy? Then you don’t need to add that. Or worse, he was never given the opportunity because you added a D-Man so you didn’t know what you had to begin with. Or maybe the goaltending is completely flat and you’ve already moved all your key assets and dont’ have anything left at the deadline to improve goaltending? Things happen. Waiting as long as possible allows the GM to address needs as opposed to blowing assets early on wants.

 

[frontsfan67]

From what I remember of Springer and yes he offered me a job looking after the mascot when they were at the M Center. He wants to make money. he wants to add value to his product.

There is prestige being the M Cup winner but can you buy a coffee at Tims with a M Cup ring.

A memorial cup ring or OHL title would rejuvenate a club far more than a couple of mediocre middle of the pack finishes would.

People on here have complained about the lack of marketing and about the fact that the team is not a draw.

It should be it is the only real game in town for sports.

Why it isn't is because of the price location and the need for a consistent product.

If you’re a real fan you’re going to show up regardless if they’re playing a last placed Niagara team or the #1 team in the country.

Problem if the fan base is old and are tired of the last 20 years. Mix that with inflation and people are having to pick between going to a game with their family of 4 or get groceries. Just cheaper to watch on tv. They need newer, younger fans that will be fans of the team the next 20-40 years. And yes cost comes with that too. I have no idea why they can’t ever just put the price at 10-15 for a few years- get people hooked on some good hockey- sell more tickets then raise it back up in the coming years. Problem is nobody is paying 30 bucks for a jr ticket in kingston. Especially college/university kids. There’s over 20,000 in town every year and they only have a university/college game about once a year.

When queens and rmc play the place is packed. They need to engage more college and university kids regardless of if the older generations are mad at them for buying the beer and being rowdy. Still making money that way

Let's be honest with the Gens: Brampton, Barrie, and possibly Brantford all have good teams. The top 3 positions in the conf are filled.

I agree with Oshawa, Brampton and Barrie. Brantford is right on par with Kingston right now imo.

However as I’ve said before Oshawa is dealing with an injury to sennecke to start the year, it isn’t clear right now where roobroeck is playing and there’s a (very slim) chance Ritchie makes Colorado. Some factors there as well.

Brantford is dealing with an injury to Vanacker for a good chunk of the year as well- as well they’re going to have some subpar defence until they get Adam jiricek.

This is good for kingston as they’ll have all but ludwinski back for the start of the year and can potentially pull ahead of some of these teams early and make it tougher for them to claw back later in the year. I don’t think kingston gets first in the division (while potentially being the 3rd best team) but there’s an argument for anything.

Looking at this team it is not a contending team.

I understand that there are some people who think winning the M Cup is the be-all and end-all of a franchise's success.

I look at it from the perspective of the fan that puts his money down and wants to be entertained and see a consistent product.

Beast all due respect if you don’t want championships then you’re just a casual fan looking for a night out. I don’t care if the fronts suck for a year as long as they come back stronger the year after..

FF
you are wrong you are not wasting anyone. These guys are here to develop into men, and some of them will be lucky enough to develop into good hockey players

If that’s your end goal beast. Sucking for a few years will really build character.

 

[dirty12]

My point is that if you look at the teams that always at the top it is because the develop players and have a cosistent sysem that does not drain them causing the Kingston cycle.

It's not just about appeasing a few people. It's about building a strong, supportive fan base in our city.


Most families that are going to come out on a regular basis do so for entertainment. TBH most don't care about the M Cup.

They just want to know that when they renew their season tickets, the product on the ice is going to entertain them.

If you want to attempt to get to the cup then keep selling the future.

If Kingston wants to be considered a city with a good team and host the M Cup then develop a system that is not so obviously flawed

If at some point you had actually looked at the roster, you would have realized this is the year Kingston will try to contend. By mid-season 2022-23, the frontenacs had 3-1sts born 2005 including he #4 & #5 picks. That should have been a clue that Kingston is building for the 2024-25 season.

 

[frontsfan67]

This is why I am so surprised Brampton and Barrie have already added key players. Neither team were particularly good last year.

Believe Brampton was the #1 team in the East for a while. This year they’re a year older.

If martone makes the nhl next year then they lose him for nothing.

They were fine young teams but you know as well as me that sometimes teams don’t turn the corner and elevate their game with age.

It is odd to me that teams feel they need to add as many studs as possible this early. Teams suffer injuries and setbacks as well as uncover the odd player that is unexpected. Playing through Christmas allows teams to see what they truly have. What if Veliaris comes out and makes a giant leap forward? He proves to be a more than capable 2nd pairing guy? Then you don’t need to add that. Or worse, he was never given the opportunity because you added a D-Man so you didn’t know what you had to begin with. Or maybe the goaltending is completely flat and you’ve already moved all your key assets and dont’ have anything left at the deadline to improve goaltending? Things happen. Waiting as long as possible allows the GM to address needs as opposed to blowing assets early on wants.

They bought a piece early because it was for a good price and they needed a centre man after probably losing ludwinski and they knew at the time they were going to have to trade frasca- on top of already losing Dubois. That’s your top 3 centres from last year.

Brampton made everyone have to buy now with them acquiring Rehkopf- that changed the rest of the teams. Now teams like Kingston are trying to acquire some top level talent before all of it is gone. They’re especially panicking because they lose a lot of these good 19/20 year olds next year. I was told I believe in June that they’re going for it this year- that was well before any of these trades were being made. I assume that hasn’t changed at all.

 

[OMG67]

Believe Brampton was the #1 team in the East for a while. This year they’re a year older.

If martone makes the nhl next year then they lose him for nothing.

They bought a piece early because it was for a good price and they needed a centre man after probably losing ludwinski and they knew at the time they were going to have to trade frasca- on top of already losing Dubois. That’s your top 3 centres from last year.

Brampton made everyone have to buy now with them acquiring Rehkopf- that changed the rest of the teams. Now teams like Kingston are trying to acquire some top level talent before all of it is gone. They’re especially panicking because they lose a lot of these good 19/20 year olds next year. I was told I believe in June that they’re going for it this year- that was well before any of these trades were being made. I assume that hasn’t changed at all.

Please don’t misunderstand. I have no issues with Kingston adding Guindon. Personally, I thought the price was a little high but it is not like OA Centres are growing on trees so the price is reflective of the supply. The same goes for other teams with open OA slots. I think teams should fill their OA slots considering the costs associated to doing so.

The only unfortunate part is I think some very viable OA’s will be available later in the season for peanuts, just not centres.

What I said was not exclusive to Kingston. I have faith in both Mississauga and Barrie. They both return the lions share of their roster. It only makes sense they will be better. HOWEVER! There should be no rush for either team to pay deadline prices for 19 year olds now.

This applies to Kingston as well. Fill the OA slots in a way that makes the most sense. I am all for that. If the right OA isn’t available yet then wait. Cool.

My overarching point is that ALL teams can go through tough stretches for many reasons. Additionally, players make unexpected giant leaps all the time. Both can happen for better and for worse. By allowing your existing team to play through Christmas as a unit, it gives the team time to find its identity and allows some of the depth players an opportunity to step up and fill a role, especially the ones you weren’t expecting. Imagine if a player like Pickle were to step up and score 20 goals by the Christmas break. Would that make a difference in the approach at the deadline for Cooper? What if they were to acquire another player now that scores 20 goals and Pickle doesn’t get an opportunity to play a larger role and as a result scores 4 goals in the same period languishing on the 4th line?

It goes both ways. Allowing the younger players an opportunity to step into roles can sometimes save a ton of assets at the deadline. Conversely, a serious injury after you already blew your load on WANT players takes you out of the running for unexpected NEED players down the line.

I’d love to see Kingston take a step back and enter the season with this team. See what they have. See who steps up. Or, maybe like last year, they underachieve. They fall backwards, not forwards. Either way, I think it makes total sense for this team to play it safe for now. If an OA comes available that fills a hole then jump on it. But, getting into the bidding war for a 19 year old elite player at this stage of the season is dumb for most all teams.

Also, the supply won’t run out. There will be teams out there holding players back because they don’t. want draft picks as the prime component. There will be teams that think they may have a chance and by Christmas they realize they don’t and they ship players out. It happens every year. Additionally, you have teams like Barrie who have already moved a lot of picks. How much more can they do right now without moving players? Same with Oshawa. If they acquire Barlow, they will be light on assets too. As the contenders start to run out of assets, teams holding players to sell start to run out of chairs to sit in when the music stops. That is how Oshawa ended up with Punnett, the steal of the OA deadline. That is how Guelph ended up with half of Team Canada at the deadline in 2019.

 

[dirty12]

Please don’t misunderstand. I have no issues with Kingston adding Guindon. Personally, I thought the price was a little high but it is not like OA Centres are growing on trees so the price is reflective of the supply. The same goes for other teams with open OA slots. I think teams should fill their OA slots considering the costs associated to doing so.

The only unfortunate part is I think some very viable OA’s will be available later in the season for peanuts, just not centres.

only the non-impactful OAs at saturated positions will be cheap; Kingston, Brampton, Brantford, and Oshawa need one OA better for their team, possibly two for Barrie.

What I said was not exclusive to Kingston. I have faith in both Mississauga and Barrie. They both return the lions share of their roster. It only makes sense they will be better. HOWEVER! There should be no rush for either team to pay deadline prices for 19 year olds now.

This applies to Kingston as well. Fill the OA slots in a way that makes the most sense. I am all for that. If the right OA isn’t available yet then wait. Cool.

My overarching point is that ALL teams can go through tough stretches for many reasons. Additionally, players make unexpected giant leaps all the time. Both can happen for better and for worse. By allowing your existing team to play through Christmas as a unit, it gives the team time to find its identity and allows some of the depth players an opportunity to step up and fill a role, especially the ones you weren’t expecting. Imagine if a player like Pickle were to step up and score 20 goals by the Christmas break. Would that make a difference in the approach at the deadline for Cooper? What if they were to acquire another player now that scores 20 goals and Pickle doesn’t get an opportunity to play a larger role and as a result scores 4 goals in the same period languishing on the 4th line?

It goes both ways. Allowing the younger players an opportunity to step into roles can sometimes save a ton of assets at the deadline. Conversely, a serious injury after you already blew your load on WANT players takes you out of the running for unexpected NEED players down the line.

I’d love to see Kingston take a step back and enter the season with this team. See what they have. See who steps up. Or, maybe like last year, they underachieve. They fall backwards, not forwards. Either way, I think it makes total sense for this team to play it safe for now. If an OA comes available that fills a hole then jump on it. But, getting into the bidding war for a 19 year old elite player at this stage of the season is dumb for most all teams.

Also, the supply won’t run out. There will be teams out there holding players back because they don’t. want draft picks as the prime component. There will be teams that think they may have a chance and by Christmas they realize they don’t and they ship players out. It happens every year. Additionally, you have teams like Barrie who have already moved a lot of picks. How much more can they do right now without moving players? Same with Oshawa. If they acquire Barlow, they will be light on assets too. As the contenders start to run out of assets, teams holding players to sell start to run out of chairs to sit in when the music stops. That is how Oshawa ended up with Punnett, the steal of the OA deadline. That is how Guelph ended up with half of Team Canada at the deadline in 2019.

Position in the standings can be a determining factor in where players will accept being traded to a the deadline. The guy was right to say eastern confernce teams have to react in some fashion to the Barrie and Brampton moves.

 

[OMG67]

only the non-impactful OAs at saturated positions will be cheap.

Position in the standings can be a determining factor in where players will accept being traded to a the deadline. The guy was right to say eastern confernce teams have to react in some fashion to the Barrie and Brampton moves.

Sure but if this Kingston team rolls this roster out and they are sitting at .525 at the deadline and 5th place, I agree. The players won’t’ want to go there. But, the GM shouldn’t be adding either! If you don’t already have a really friggin’ good team right now, what are two players going to do? Other teams are going to have really good friggin’ teams and they will add two players as well…

I disagree about the OA’s. There is the elite tier that will go for a solid trade value. Agreed. But, I think here will be some value OA players out there that will want to go to contenders or better teams and their teams will agree to move them out of courtesy. I could see a team like Oshawa sit back and add a player like Punnett for the paltry sum they paid last year. IMO, Punnett was the best OA D-Man available and he went the cheapest of all of them. It will happen again this year for the team that is most patient.

 

[dirty12]

Sure but if this Kingston team rolls this roster out and they are sitting at .525 at the deadline and 5th place, I agree. The players won’t’ want to go there. But, the GM shouldn’t be adding either! If you don’t already have a really friggin’ good team right now, what are two players going to do? Other teams are going to have really good friggin’ teams and they will add two players as well…

A LOT, see Lockhart and Punnet, see what Vilmanis did for the NB top six.

Kingston adding Wakely, might be much improved while Brampton adding Pinelli and Romani just might make the steelheads more like last seasons wolves

I disagree about the OA’s. There is the elite tier that will go for a solid trade value. Agreed. But, I think here will be some value OA players out there that will want to go to contenders or better teams and their teams will agree to move them out of courtesy. I could see a team like Oshawa sit back and add a player like Punnett for the paltry sum they paid last year. IMO, Punnett was the best OA D-Man available and he went the cheapest of all of them. It will happen again this year for the team that is most patient.

It was more a combination of stupidity and a pre-arranged agreement to bring an OA home to a contender that Punnet did not go to the wolves for the Mayer price

 

[OMG67]

A LOT, see Lockhart and Punnet, see what Vilmanis did for the NB top six.

Kingston adding Wakely, might be much improved while Brampton adding Pinelli and Romani just might make the steelheads more like last seasons wolves

It was more a combination of stupidity and a pre-arranged agreement to bring an OA home to a contender that Punnet did not go to the wolves for the Mayer price

Maybe it is just me but I think Ritchie coming back from injury in mid-November had a lot more to do with their success.

Again, adding OA’s is good practise. Do it if the right ones come available at the right price. But, would Oshawa have added Lockhart and Punnett if they were paying what Kingston jsut paid for Guindon? Two 3rds, a 5th and Stewart for Lockhart and Punnett is an outright steal in the aggregate. Call it good fortune with players that wanted to go there. I’m not seeing any early season players making powerplays to go play for the Fronts.

If Kingston ends up with DeAngelis for a 3rd and 5th next week, we can talk about early OA acquisitions and how important they are. Until then, while teams are paying full pop, I think we can agree that the Oshawa situation last year with them acquiring Lockhart and Punnett for what equates to a ball of soap chips is the anomaly, not the rule. Although, later this year at the deadline when the music stops and other teams have filled their OA slots and there is a team sitting there with an empty chair, they will be looking at that team saying, “Come to poppa!”… jsut like OShawa did with Barrie and Punnett.