Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

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beastintheeast

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Beast, there is not an example of a consistently competitive team in the eastern conference. The closest right now is the battalion; but they have to re-tool this season, and likely face a real rebuild in 2026-27 because 11 of their signed players are ‘06s.

Many are pretty impressed with the Petes rebuild. What if the ‘08 born turn out to be a better class than the ‘07; do the Petes sell it all because two teams go all-in a season early just to extend their rebuild to 5-6 years? The wolves did that … rebuild of the rebuild; yuck!

Teams should not fold when they don’t have to imo. Barrie, Brampton, and certainly not Oshawa are out of reach. Kingston right now should make every attempt to acquire Wakely; failing that, hope like hell Wakely does not go to Barrie or Brampton.
I agree that all teams need to rebuild at some point, but the good teams are not on a three-year cycle with only one year near or at the top. Most of these teams do not have to trade most of their players just to get a chance.
Ottawa 9 years
Owen sound 13 and they won a league championship
North Bay 9 out of 10 in playoffs
Barrie missed twice and has a championship
Kingston 9 out of 12 in the playoffs only to 3rd round 1 time

The Fronts went 6 years in a row and had fans. Not because of trading the world but drafting the right players and having the right coach
 

dirty12

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I agree that all teams need to rebuild at some point, but the good teams are not on a three-year cycle with only one year near or at the top. Most of these teams do not have to trade most of their players just to get a chance.
Ottawa 9 years
Owen sound 13 and they won a league championship
North Bay 9 out of 10 in playoffs
Barrie missed twice and has a championship
Kingston 9 out of 12 in the playoffs only to 3rd round 1 time

The Fronts went 6 years in a row and had fans. Not because of trading the world but drafting the right players and having the right coach

Dude, I attended all but a couple of Jan-April games of the absolutely loaded ‘18 Frontenacs. I could count on one hand the amount of games in excess of 3800 ‘fans’.
 

OMG67

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Beast, there is not an example of a consistently competitive team in the eastern conference. The closest right now is the battalion; but they have to re-tool this season, and likely face a real rebuild in 2026-27 because 11 of their signed players are ‘06s.

Many are pretty impressed with the Petes rebuild. What if the ‘08 born turn out to be a better class than the ‘07; do the Petes sell it all because two teams go all-in a season early just to extend their rebuild to 5-6 years? The wolves did that … rebuild of the rebuild; yuck!

Teams should not fold when they don’t have to imo. And no, Kingston cannot afford to sit back and fall behind in the standings to see what unfolds; by then, they’re looking at certain 4-5 match up; or worse, a 3-6 match up with a tough team to beat.
Barrie, Brampton, and certainly not Oshawa are out of reach. Kingston right now should make every attempt to acquire Wakely; failing that, hope like hell Wakely does not go to Barrie or Brampton.
If like the steelheads at the ‘23 deadline, the Frontenacs find themselves in no-man’s land; then they can consider a major sell.

This particular conversation is now boring. We all understand that Kingston has an older roster.

This isn’t about whether they should or should not go all in. It is whether the team at its core right now is Championship calibre. If the Fronts go out starting this weekend and go on a roll and prove they are in the top tier, then they should go out and gobble up whatever they can afford. That is the usual blueprint strategy.

But, for some reason, this seaosn is different. Teams that are anticipating being good are making deadline’esque type trades and the puck hasn’t even dropped on the season. This has placed pressure on the other wannabe contenders to do something now. They don’t “need” to.

So, the question really should be whether Kingston should take a measured approach and let the market unfold in front of them while they grow as a team through the early stages of the season, or should they force the market by overpaying for players now? Other teams in a seller position may have a more significant impact on when the market opens for business which may force Kingston to make a move prematurely, but if/when that happens, they can choose to participate or not.

To me, the one player that they need to be in on is Wakely when he becomes available. If North Bay holds him through the deadline, then Kingston needs to wait through the deadline.

So, in some instances, even if you want to be patient and let this team go prove they are true contenders with their demonstrated play on the ice, the market doesn’t always cooperate.

If the Fronts take this current team into the regular season and get pummelled for some reason and they look poor, do you still make an investment thinking 1-3 players will make a difference? To me, that is the real conversation. If the Fronts are 6-7 at the end of October, would that change the mindset of the fanbase and team management? To me, it is more about how did they lose these games?

These are the sorts of assessments that can be made but it is not like Kingston controls its own destiny. They are at the mercy of the market as well as their own reputation…aka will key players agree to go there?
 

OHL4Life

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the reason lalonde isnt at prop hockey has way more to do with his .873 and .837 save percentage in both erie and saginaw and his inability to establish himself as an average starter to this point in his ohl career.
 
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ScoutLife4

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the reason lalonde isnt at prop hockey has way more to do with his .873 and .837 save percentage in both erie and saginaw and his inability to establish himself as an average starter to this point in his ohl career.
Respectfully It has absolutely nothing to do with it.
It would not matter if he had a ,920 last season he still would not be in the AHL this season.

Go count how many 20 year old goalies are on an AHL roster. -I only know of 1 stepping foot on the ice last season.

I feel like you have the same criteria for goalies as players and they do not develop at the same pace / age.
Has he established himself as a starter in the OHL? No i can agree with that. But an NHL team has evaluated him and thinks he has the tools to become a pro goalie and decided to pay him 300-400K while they wait for it to happen and that counts for something is all i'm trying to say.

EDIT: The 1 goalie i counted didnt even play a game he just sat on a bench one game lol.
Make that 1.
 

OHL4Life

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Respectfully It has absolutely nothing to do with it.
It would not matter if he had a ,920 last season he still would not be in the AHL this season.

Go count how many 20 year old goalies are on an AHL roster. -I only know of 1 stepping foot on the ice last season.

I feel like you have the same criteria for goalies as players and they do not develop at the same pace / age.
Has he established himself as a starter in the OHL? No i can agree with that. But an NHL team has evaluated him and thinks he has the tools to become a pro goalie and decided to pay him 300-400K while they wait for it to happen and that counts for something is all i'm trying to say.

EDIT: The 1 goalie i counted didnt even play a game he just sat on a bench one game lol.
Make that 1.

i didnt say the ahl, i said pro.

i took a look at 2016, there were 8 goalies in the leauge who were eventually signed and played pro. not 1 of them played as an overage. some played ahl for 20 games, some played echl for 20 games, but they found a way to get them into pro hockey because thats what teams do when they sign players. they are paying them, they dont want them not in pro hockey, positive or negative.

i looked back to 2021/2022, there are 8 goalies signed who played in the ohl that year, the only one that was an overage was guzda, who didnt sign until half way through that year. all the goalies signed to a pro deal where playing, again, some 20 games in the ahl, some 20 games in the echl.

your a self described data guy, look at the data with this stuff. colombus has 5 goalies signed, if they really wanted him in the echl, which roughly half the ohl goalies who have been signed, including michael dipietro at 20, they could have easily found a way to make it happen.

there is a reason that signed over age goalies are rarely if ever sent back. proof is in the league wide data over the past 10 years.
 
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ScoutLife4

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i didnt say the ahl, i said pro.

i took a look at 2016, there were 8 goalies in the leauge who were eventually signed and played pro. not 1 of them played as an overage. some played ahl for 20 games, some played echl for 20 games, but they found a way to get them into pro hockey because thats what teams do when they sign players. they are paying them, they dont want them not in pro hockey, positive or negative.

i looked back to 2022/2023, there are 8 goalies signed who played in the ohl that year, the only one that was an overage was guzda, who didnt sign until half way through that year. all the goalies signed to a pro deal where playing, again, some 20 games in the ahl, some 20 games in the echl.

your a self described data guy, look at the data with this stuff. colombus has 5 goalies signed, if they really wanted him in the echl, which roughly half the ohl goalies who have been signed, including michael dipietro at 20, they could have easily found a way to make it happen.

there is a reason that signed over age goalies are rarely if ever sent back. proof is in the league wide data over the past 10 years.
20 year old goalies do not play in the AHL anymore.
This is not 2016. -I'm sure i could go back to 2006 and find even more young goalies.....

Minor pro (Echl) isn't going to help him anymore then having him in Kingston.
If Kingston has a spot for him why in the world would he want to be in Kalamazoo?

You make it sound like playing in the ECHL is some big reward to a nhl signed player.
It's more of a kick in the nuts.
I much rather see a goalie that's not ready play through his JR eligibility if he has the opportunity then spend a season in the E.

My point was him not playing in the AHL was no indication of what Columbus thinks of him at age 20 because goalies that young simply do not play there anymore.
 
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OHL4Life

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20 year old goalies do not play in the AHL anymore.
This is not 2016. -I'm sure i could go back to 2006 and find even more young goalies.....

Minor pro (Echl) isn't going to help him anymore then having him in Kingston.
If Kingston has a spot for him why in the world would he want to be in Kalamazoo?

You make it sound like playing in the ECHL is some big reward to a nhl signed player.
It's more of a kick in the nuts.
I much rather see a goalie that's not ready play through his JR eligibility if he has the opportunity then spend a season in the E.

We can agree to disagree on that and thats fines.

but why in 2022 did all 7 signed goalies make it to pro then and leave the ohl? are all those nhl teams stupid, because they seemed to believe that the echl was a viable spot. this isnt my feelings or your feelings, its the goaltender player development peoples feelings.

last year there were 2 signed goalies in the ohl, divincentiis is the other one and north bay has been told he wont be back,

its not me your disagreeing with, its the actions of all these nhl teams.
 
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OMG67

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20 year old goalies do not play in the AHL anymore.
This is not 2016. -I'm sure i could go back to 2006 and find even more young goalies.....

Minor pro (Echl) isn't going to help him anymore then having him in Kingston.
If Kingston has a spot for him why in the world would he want to be in Kalamazoo?

You make it sound like playing in the ECHL is some big reward to a nhl signed player.
It's more of a kick in the nuts.
I much rather see a goalie that's not ready play through his JR eligibility if he has the opportunity then spend a season in the E.

My point was him not playing in the AHL was no indication of what Columbus thinks of him at age 20 because goalies that young simply do not play there anymore.

Columbus reassigning him to the OHL suggests they feel he “needs” more time in junior to develop. I wouldn’t read anything more into it.

If we want to take it a step further, we could discuss why Columbus feels he needs to continue in junior but I doubt we’d be on the same page in that conversation.
 

OHL4Life

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Are you saying all 7 goalies that signed NHL contracts in 2022 played in the AHL last season?

no im saying every goalie that was signed to a contract that plays in the ohl in 2022/2023 made it to pro hockey, lalonde excluded.


every single one was not returned to the ohl. they were not ohl overage players once the contract kicked in.
 

ScoutLife4

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no im saying they played PRO. every single one was not returned to the ohl. they were not ohl players.
They played minor pro.
When this discussion started it was about Columbus not thinking he was good enough to be in the AHL on Cleveland the way i interpreted it.
Which is true because 20 year old goalies do not play in the AHL anymore is what i was saying.

Was Michael Simpson not good enough to be in the ECHL last season because he came back for his OA season?
 

OHL4Life

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They played minor pro.
When this discussion started it was about Columbus not thinking he was good enough to be in the AHL on Cleveland the way i interpreted it.
Which is true because 20 year old goalies do not play in the AHL anymore is what i was saying.

Was Michael Simpson not good enough to be in the ECHL last season because he came back for his OA season?

he wasnt signed or drafted by an nhl team? he had no option? did you not know that?
 

ScoutLife4

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You know what i meant.
1727274693479.png
 

leafs4life94

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I assume the 2 week clock on a Chromiak move starts tonight? My guess is that he ends up on waivers and out of the O, but I'm hoping for some kind of trade.

Looking around the league, Brantford (likely just Jiricek -yet do be sent down but rumours swirling), Kitchener (none), Niagara (just Loshko), Peterborough (just Matejicek), Saginaw (just Chernyshov), Soo (just Holub), Sudbury (none) all have open spots - though there's probably been rumours or reports of other imports signing I've missed.

A reunion with Sudbury would be cool but I don't think they'd be able to trade him there because I seem to remember reading there's a 13 month waiting period for a player to be traded back to a team, although I'm not sure if that rule applies for imports too
 

OMG67

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I assume the 2 week clock on a Chromiak move starts tonight? My guess is that he ends up on waivers and out of the O, but I'm hoping for some kind of trade.

Looking around the league, Brantford (likely just Jiricek -yet do be sent down but rumours swirling), Kitchener (none), Niagara (just Loshko), Peterborough (just Matejicek), Saginaw (just Chernyshov), Soo (just Holub), Sudbury (none) all have open spots - though there's probably been rumours or reports of other imports signing I've missed.

A reunion with Sudbury would be cool but I don't think they'd be able to trade him there because I seem to remember reading there's a 13 month waiting period for a player to be traded back to a team, although I'm not sure if that rule applies for imports too

Niagara has an Import slot open. That could be a reasonable destination for him.
 
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dirty12

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Niagara has an Import slot open. That could be a reasonable destination for him.

Saginaw might have the biggest need, and Lazary might be the right coach to bring out the talent in Chromiak.
 

frontsfan67

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Niagara has an Import slot open. That could be a reasonable destination for him.
I could see him going to Niagara. Hopefully for a few 2nds and 3rds… please DD 🙏🏼

Any idea if the fronts gave out a CHL live streaming pass discount like other teams or are they too cheap? I checked my email and I didn’t see it. Hopefully I didn’t delete it.
 

beastintheeast

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I could see him going to Niagara. Hopefully for a few 2nds and 3rds… please DD 🙏🏼

Any idea if the fronts gave out a CHL live streaming pass discount like other teams or are they too cheap? I checked my email and I didn’t see it. Hopefully I didn’t delete it.
I think any deal for Chromiak is going to be a cheap late-round pick or 2. There is no way he is worth a third-round pick. The issue is that Kingston has to release him so anyone they deal with is going to know they can get him on waivers if they want.
 

frontsfan67

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I think any deal for Chromiak is going to be a cheap late-round pick or 2. There is no way he is worth a third-round pick. The issue is that Kingston has to release him so anyone they deal with is going to know they can get him on waivers if they want.
Beast it’s a joke

DD would probably bite at it though if they throw a bag of hockey pucks in so they can save money
 
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