Kings claim Brendan Leipsic on waivers from Vancouver

[KINGS17]

I can't wait to see people complain why we can't find a 2c for the next 5 years. Or we have to pay player X 7 mil to play the 2c position when Carter was only 5 and change.

Does it matter? Carter is not the 2C he was 2 years ago. I don't expect the Kings to get a 2C in a trade, or in any other type of transaction any time soon as good as Carter was back in 2014.

Again, does it matter? The Kings are going nowhere fast with this core. Carter isn't going to be a great player for the Kings over the next 5 years.

 

[Fishhead]

Lots of holes in the roster, losing Carter isn't a big deal. The team should be focusing on assets in similar age ranges, so they all start peaking together. Regardless of what its called, a retool or rebuild or whatever, players not expected to be around or producing (Carter, Martinez, Muzzin, etc.) need to be turned into those assets. I think we can all tell by looking at the product on the ice that it's not going to be a short term fix.

 

[LAKings88]

Kupari
Vilardi
JAD

They currently have done nothing in the NHL granted, but right now, they are your center depth if they can pan out.

Huge IF.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Does it matter? Carter is not the 2C he was 2 years ago. I don't expect the Kings to get a 2C in a trade, or in any other type of transaction any time soon as good as Carter was back in 2014.

Again, does it matter? The Kings are going nowhere fast with this core. Carter isn't going to be a great player for the Kings over the next 5 years.

2014? Unnecessary hyperbole.

Counterpoints: when Carter returned last year, he scored at a 40-goal, 66-point pace--even higher point paces than he scored in 2014 (50 points), and almost exactly the amount of points he ended up with the previous years--66, 62, 62. This year is the first year Carter's production is actually depressed, just like the rest of the team sucking. He's still third on the team in scoring, and only three points behind the leader Kopitar, as per usual.

Tanner Pearson, he of 1 lowly assist in 17 Kings games this year, is right back to his normal or better career pace with the Penguins.

I think it's fair to be skeptical of Carter's health and age and I agree that could be a factor in his trade value, particularly with term left. But the price is low, and the results have been there, this crap about him not being effective since 2014 is absolute tripe though, he was a 1C as recent as 2 years ago when Kopitar was down, and he scored like one last year in spite of returning from a massive career-threatening injury. Thinking someone would be more than willing to take a chance on that guy especially in a complementary role for much lower price tag than you are getting any other top-sixers these days.

 

[Winger23]

2014? Unnecessary hyperbole.

Counterpoints: when Carter returned last year, he scored at a 40-goal, 66-point pace--even higher point paces than he scored in 2014 (50 points), and almost exactly the amount of points he ended up with the previous years--66, 62, 62. This year is the first year Carter's production is actually depressed, just like the rest of the team sucking. He's still third on the team in scoring, and only three points behind the leader Kopitar, as per usual.

Tanner Pearson, he of 1 lowly assist in 17 Kings games this year, is right back to his normal or better career pace with the Penguins.

I think it's fair to be skeptical of Carter's health and age and I agree that could be a factor in his trade value, particularly with term left. But the price is low, and the results have been there, this crap about him not being effective since 2014 is absolute tripe though, he was a 1C as recent as 2 years ago when Kopitar was down, and he scored like one last year in spite of returning from a massive career-threatening injury. Thinking someone would be more than willing to take a chance on that guy especially in a complementary role for much lower price tag than you are getting any other top-sixers these days.

Not trying disprove anything you said, but while Carter was on a high pace, he to me did not pass the eye test. He wasnt the same guy as previous years.

I know he had the goals, but he wasnt explosive and imo got some "lucky" goals.

I'm not arguing no one will be willing to pay a lot for him, just he isnt the same explosive player.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Not trying disprove anything you said, but while Carter was on a high pace, he to me did not pass the eye test. He wasnt the same guy as previous years.

I know he had the goals, but he wasnt explosive and imo got some "lucky" goals.

I'm not arguing no one will be willing to pay a lot for him, just he isnt the same explosive player.

I can get on board with that becasue, like I said, it's fair to be skeptical about his health. He himself has mentioned a 'new normal' and he may never be the same. He's still very fast, and if a team doesn't need him to carry the mail...can you imagine him as a 2RW or something? or 3rd line? Plus, he's not even a year removed from this thing, he's still recovering, much like a knee injury. Definitely a gamble, but he could get better.

I'm just not at all on board with the opinions from earlier that suggested we'd be lucky to get a 3rd AND/OR we'd have to pay someone to take him.

 

[KINGS17]

Goal pace no longer matters to me when we are talking about players over 30 years of age. In the recent past Carter is either out injured, or he starts out on fire, and fades around 50-60 games into the season. Carter is a depreciating asset and the depreciation of that asset has increased at a faster rate over the last two seasons. It was a mistake to not move him in a deal. Two or three years ago the Kings could have probably received a first and two high-end prospects for Carter.

What did keeping Carter amount to for the Kings?

 

[kilowatt]

Goal pace no longer matters to me when we are talking about players over 30 years of age. In the recent past Carter is either out injured, or he starts out on fire, and fades around 50-60 games into the season. Carter is a depreciating asset and the depreciation of that asset has increased at a faster rate over the last two seasons. It was a mistake to not move him in a deal. Two or three years ago the Kings could have probably received a first and two high-end prospects for Carter.

What did keeping Carter amount to for the Kings?

Sure, but hindsight is 20/20. Two or three years ago, we thought we were still in our contending window. The pieces didn't fall that way though, and here we are. What can we get for Carter right now? Probably a mid-to-late first and a prospect.

 

[KINGS17]

Sure, but hindsight is 20/20. Two or three years ago, we thought we were still in our contending window. The pieces didn't fall that way though, and here we are. What can we get for Carter right now? Probably a mid-to-late first and a prospect.

What hindsight? There are several posters here who advocated moving Carter in a trade 2-3 years ago. That is not hindsight.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

What hindsight? There are several posters here who advocated moving Carter in a trade 2-3 years ago. That is not hindsight.

That's because there are several posters here who still play NHL on play station and think real life works the same. It's absolutely insane to think of a pro team ONE YEAR REMOVED from winning the championship, is going to trade a KEY PIECE for picks and prospects.....

The only time I remember a championship team being dismantled like you wanted to dismantle the Kings, is the Marlins after their World Series win, and that was due to money and money alone....

This idiocy of "but we said it back in 2015" nonsense, just shows that you have no working knowledge of sport and how it works, and can only understand what works on your video game.

I will say, hindsight, you are absolutely BANG ON, you are right.

But that's why it's called hindsight.

 

[BigKing]

Agree that is isn't happening going into 2015.

The 2015 season is still super flukey to me with how they barely missed the playoffs while going 1-100 in OT/SO while a trash team like the Canucks got 100 points.

Shouldn't have made the Lucic trade but understand the thought process. Then Gaborik fell off after a 27 goal year in 2015.

After being embarrassed in 2016, DL should have then looked at shaking things up. Instead, he just held serve and didn't add anyone significant.

That leaves Blakey. He holds serve as well on the roster that just got the last guy fired. Gets a fluke season and another playoff embarrassment.

Doubles down. Here we are. Already traded one piece at its lowest value. Now let's see where we go from here.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Agree that is isn't happening going into 2015.

The 2015 season is still super flukey to me with how they barely missed the playoffs while going 1-100 in OT/SO while a trash team like the Canucks got 100 points.

Shouldn't have made the Lucic trade but understand the thought process. Then Gaborik fell off after a 27 goal year in 2015.

After being embarrassed in 2016, DL should have then looked at shaking things up. Instead, he just held serve and didn't add anyone significant.

That leaves Blakey. He holds serve as well on the roster that just got the last guy fired. Gets a fluke season and another playoff embarrassment.

Doubles down. Here we are. Already traded one piece at its lowest value. Now let's see where we go from here.

Yeah, no one is moving anyone in 2015, I don't care if you have balls made of solid brass. Two cups in three years and a WCF against the other mini-dynasty in the same time and you go to ownership and suggest to move a few guys after we saw them win championships in polar opposite fashion? Get real. 2015 was a completely flukey year. Can make the argument going into 2016 maybe even if I disagree with it, but dismantling a Cup team months after victory gets nothing but a LOL from me forever.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yeah, no one is moving anyone in 2015, I don't care if you have balls made of solid brass. Two cups in three years and a WCF against the other mini-dynasty in the same time and you go to ownership and suggest to move a few guys after we saw them win championships in polar opposite fashion? Get real. 2015 was a completely flukey year. Can make the argument going into 2016 maybe even if I disagree with it, but dismantling a Cup team months after victory gets nothing but a LOL from me forever.

Guys weren't seriously suggesting moving on from players until 2017, this we saw it 2-3 years ago is revisionist BS,

As of 2016, K17 was saying that Carter was a very nice piece we had, it wasnt until a year later he suggested we had to move on from him....not 2016 etc.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

After 2015, when they played like they didn't care if they made the playoffs in the last month of the season, the following happened:

- Robyn Regehr retired.
- Kings traded Martin Jones, Colin Miller, and the 13th overall pick to Boston for Milan Lucic.
- Justin Williams and Jarret Stoll became UFAs.
- Re-signed Jamie McBain and signed Christian Ehrhoff.
- Lost J.F. Berube to waivers.
- Signed Peter Budaj.
- Traded Jordan Weal and a 3rd for Vincent Lecavalier and Luke Schenn.
- Traded Christian Ehrhoff for Rob Scuderi.
- Traded Valentin Zykov for Kris Versteeg.

And at the conclusion of the season, Lucic, Versteeg, Lecavalier and Schenn all departed. A sign perhaps that they should have started retooling after a horrendous playoff performance in the opening round in 2016, but we know that didn't happen.

After the failures in 2016 is when management should have accepted the reality that this team was reverting back to the black hole team that Lombardi dreaded. They made the following transactions after 2016:

- Signed Teddy Purcell, Jeff Zatkoff, Tom Gilbert and Devin Setoguchi (who all made the opening night roster).
- Waived Teddy Purcell, Jeff Zatkoff, Tom Gilbert, Devin Setoguchi. Ended up trading Tom Gilbert to the Capitals for a conditional pick that was never met.
- Traded Erik Cernak, Peter Budaj, a 7th rounder and a conditional pick that was never met for Ben Bishop and a 5th.
- Traded Dwight King to Montreal for a 4th.
- Acquired Jarome Iginla for a conditional pick that was never met.

And on April 10, 2017, Sutter and Lombardi got axed after the team failed to qualify for the playoffs for the second time in three years.

No hindsight was used in 2016-17 when people questioned the series of moves that resulted in nothing but failure. The additions of Iginla and Lecavalier were good moves, but they were short term deals made with other clubs that had no shot at the playoffs, which is what the Kings were afraid to admit they had become, and that is where they remain today.

Why did I post all of this in a waiver claim topic discussing Brendan Leipsic? I don't know...

 

[KINGS17]

That's because there are several posters here who still play NHL on play station and think real life works the same. It's absolutely insane to think of a pro team ONE YEAR REMOVED from winning the championship, is going to trade a KEY PIECE for picks and prospects.....

The only time I remember a championship team being dismantled like you wanted to dismantle the Kings, is the Marlins after their World Series win, and that was due to money and money alone....

This idiocy of "but we said it back in 2015" nonsense, just shows that you have no working knowledge of sport and how it works, and can only understand what works on your video game.

I will say, hindsight, you are absolutely BANG ON, you are right.

But that's why it's called hindsight.

Actually, it was first said of Carter as we approached the end of the 2015-16 season. The Kings were two years removed from a Stanley Cup championship, and the writing was on the wall.

It wasn't hindsight it was foresight. I have already given you the definition of these two terms.

I don't want a GM that follows the playbook of the "also ran" GMs. An organization RARELY wins by playing it safe.

 

[KINGS17]

Sure, but hindsight is 20/20. Two or three years ago, we thought we were still in our contending window. The pieces didn't fall that way though, and here we are. What can we get for Carter right now? Probably a mid-to-late first and a prospect.

Who was we? By the end of the 2015-16 season, I think the trend was obvious. If it wasn't then, it sure was by the end of the 2016-17 season, which is almost two years ago. During the 2016-17 season Carter was a hot commodity and would have commanded a high return.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Actually, it was first said of Carter as we approached the end of the 2015-16 season. The Kings were two years removed from a Stanley Cup championship, and the writing was on the wall.

It wasn't hindsight it was foresight. I have already given you the definition of these two terms.

I don't want a GM that follows the playbook of the "also ran" GMs. An organization RARELY wins by playing it safe.

Really? Because in 2016, you were posting how lucky LA was to have a player like Carter on their roster at that price etc....you didn't even mention moving on from Carter until early in 2017

 

[riznat]

After 2015, when they played like they didn't care if they made the playoffs in the last month of the season, the following happened:

- Robyn Regehr retired.
- Kings traded Martin Jones, Colin Miller, and the 13th overall pick to Boston for Milan Lucic.
- Justin Williams and Jarret Stoll became UFAs.
- Re-signed Jamie McBain and signed Christian Ehrhoff.
- Lost J.F. Berube to waivers.
- Signed Peter Budaj.
- Traded Jordan Weal and a 3rd for Vincent Lecavalier and Luke Schenn.
- Traded Christian Ehrhoff for Rob Scuderi.
- Traded Valentin Zykov for Kris Versteeg.

And at the conclusion of the season, Lucic, Versteeg, Lecavalier and Schenn all departed. A sign perhaps that they should have started retooling after a horrendous playoff performance in the opening round in 2016, but we know that didn't happen.

After the failures in 2016 is when management should have accepted the reality that this team was reverting back to the black hole team that Lombardi dreaded. They made the following transactions after 2016:

- Signed Teddy Purcell, Jeff Zatkoff, Tom Gilbert and Devin Setoguchi (who all made the opening night roster).
- Waived Teddy Purcell, Jeff Zatkoff, Tom Gilbert, Devin Setoguchi. Ended up trading Tom Gilbert to the Capitals for a conditional pick that was never met.
- Traded Erik Cernak, Peter Budaj, a 7th rounder and a conditional pick that was never met for Ben Bishop and a 5th.
- Traded Dwight King to Montreal for a 4th.
- Acquired Jarome Iginla for a conditional pick that was never met.

And on April 10, 2017, Sutter and Lombardi got axed after the team failed to qualify for the playoffs for the second time in three years.

No hindsight was used in 2016-17 when people questioned the series of moves that resulted in nothing but failure. The additions of Iginla and Lecavalier were good moves, but they were short term deals made with other clubs that had no shot at the playoffs, which is what the Kings were afraid to admit they had become, and that is where they remain today.

Why did I post all of this in a waiver claim topic discussing Brendan Leipsic? I don't know...

That is some depressing events and sad transaction history. Not a single move of significance, dumpster diving all over those years.

 

[KINGS17]

Really? Because in 2016, you were posting how lucky LA was to have a player like Carter on their roster at that price etc....you didn't even mention moving on from Carter until early in 2017

Nope!

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Nope!

Absolutely, you really should remember there's a search function on the boards...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Nope!

Here's this gem,

KINGS17, Jan 16, 2016 - The Kings are very fortunate to have a player like Jeff Carter in the lineup that stays in top physical condition and looks like he will be able to provide a sustainable high level of play for quite some time for a modest cost.

Then there's this one

KINGS17, Mar 17, 2017 -The Kings may have to trade their best contract, and player this season in Jeff Carter, in order to start getting younger and less expensive players in here.

 

[HeadInjury]

No hindsight was used in 2016-17 when people questioned the series of moves that resulted in nothing but failure. The additions of Iginla and Lecavalier were good moves, but they were short term deals made with other clubs that had no shot at the playoffs, which is what the Kings were afraid to admit they had become, and that is where they remain today.

Why did I post all of this in a waiver claim topic discussing Brendan Leipsic? I don't know...

Good recap. I'm no Blake fan or apologist, but I think his moves since taking over in 2017 have been much better. Hasn't been trading away picks and prospects and picked up a number of young players for free (Iaffalo, Rempal, Petersen, etc.) Obviously, we would like a do-over on Kovalchuk but I think the overall approach has been rational. Some here say he should have sold last year, but that's easier said than done for a first year GM. I also assume his hands were somewhat tied regarding the Stevens hire.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Please post a trigger warning if you're going to invoke the name of Christian Ehrhoff, thx

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Who was we? By the end of the 2015-16 season, I think the trend was obvious. If it wasn't then, it sure was by the end of the 2016-17 season, which is almost two years ago. During the 2016-17 season Carter was a hot commodity and would have commanded a high return.

I don't think it was. The end of 2015-2016 was ugly but we finished with the exact same record as 2012...so we went Cup-WCF-Cup-same record as cup but missed playoffs. That's not a trend at that point, that's an aberration. After that? I can be convinced. But no GM with a chance to do something special starts tearing it down after that. That's not about 'playing it safe,' either, that's about thinking you have the cards instead of shedding and praying. And make no mistake, Doughty, Kopitar, Quick in their primes are cards.

 

[KINGS17]

I don't think it was. The end of 2015-2016 was ugly but we finished with the exact same record as 2012...so we went Cup-WCF-Cup-same record as cup but missed playoffs. That's not a trend at that point, that's an aberration. After that? I can be convinced. But no GM with a chance to do something special starts tearing it down after that. That's not about 'playing it safe,' either, that's about thinking you have the cards instead of shedding and praying. And make no mistake, Doughty, Kopitar, Quick in their primes are cards.

The 2012 team was on the upswing. The 2015-16 team was on the downswing. After losing in the first round and then not making the playoffs in Sutter's last two seasons, the trend was down.