Devils discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part III

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

They're not moving Hamilton. He's still a top 10 defenseman in offensive rating right behind Makar, Werenski, Q. Hughes, Bouchard, Fox, Karlsson, Dahlin and Harley.

They aren't going to rely on rookies who haven't proven anything to replace him. Dillon needs to go more than anyone.

I don't really care about "offensive rating". He makes $9 million dollars to play on the 3rd pair and play on the PP. We can find someone much younger and much cheaper to do that.

 

[NJDevils17]

Fitz repeatedly talks about Hamilton’s role in jump starting this era of the Devils, I think he should move him but I’m not sure he will.

 

[Billdo]

They're not moving Hamilton. He's still a top 10 defenseman in offensive rating right behind Makar, Werenski, Q. Hughes, Bouchard, Fox, Karlsson, Dahlin and Harley.

They aren't going to rely on rookies who haven't proven anything to replace him. Dillon needs to go more than anyone.

I don't think they'd have "rookies" replacing him. Luke won't be a rookie, he'll take over PP1. Nemec can handle PP2. He'd be a rookie but he wouldn't be taking anything over for Hamilton really. We'd certainly not be losing much defensively.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

the fact of the matter is you're paying a 3rd pairing DMan $9 million dollars. That is just simply not good cap allocation.

I don't care if he is THE BEST 3rd pairing DMan in the NHL, that is not a good use of resources. And it isn't like Hamilton is putting up 70 points like he did a few years ago, he is clearly on the decline.

 

[njdevil26]

the fact of the matter is you're paying a 3rd pairing DMan $9 million dollars. That is just simply not good cap allocation.

I don't care if he is THE BEST 3rd pairing DMan in the NHL, that is not a good use of resources. And it isn't like Hamilton is putting up 70 points like he did a few years ago, he is clearly on the decline.

Clearly on the decline as he's on pace for the second best offensive season of his career?

 

[britdevil]

I'm far more concerned with the guy who's two years younger, getting paid more and for far longer.

 

[NJDevs26]

Nobody is getting paid more than Dougie on AAV?

 

[MadDevil]

Fitz repeatedly talks about Hamilton’s role in jump starting this era of the Devils, I think he should move him but I’m not sure he will.

I think if he does it'll be after next season, when they can probably more likely convince somebody to take the last 2 years of his contract rather than 3 years.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Clearly on the decline as he's on pace for the second best offensive season of his career?

I mean if you watch Dougie Hamilton and dont think he is clearly on the decline, I Dont know what to tell you man. The dude cant move.

I'm far more concerned with the guy who's two years younger, getting paid more and for far longer.

who is getting paid more than Dougie Hamilton on the Devils? Genuinely curious!

 

[Devils731]

I almost forgot all these same Hamilton discussions. Glad we are running it back; a lot changed in like 10 days.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Kovacevic walking is probably the most likely outcome on the right side over a Hamliton trade

 

[Guadana]

Not when you have Hamilton, Pesce signed long term with Kovacevic as a pending UFA and Casey killing it in Utica. While Nemec is underperforming and without a clear role in PP (behind Hamilton, Luke and arguably Casey) and without a clear role on the PK since his defense is still a weakness. Not to mention he’s an offense first defenseman without dynamic scoring ability.

I think they could get much better short and long term value by trading him and improving the forward group.

No.

Jiricek was traded. Its not better long and short term value.

Nemec isnt dissapointment.
He isnt underperforming.

And we should keep him.

Nemec trade talk is bad.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Also just to be pedantic, Nemec isn’t a rookie.

 

[Billdo]

I'm far more concerned with the guy who's two years younger, getting paid more and for far longer.

Who is that?

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I have a strong feeling Nemo is going to be traded. I just hope it's not for a rental or grit.

 

[Lou Bloom]

No.

Jiricek was traded. Its not better long and short term value.

Nemec isnt dissapointment.
He isnt underperforming.

And we should keep him.

Nemec trade talk is bad.

For one, we haven’t even seen how the Jiricek trade will play out so we don’t know which team got the better in that trade.

Two, I think Nemec could bring a better return since he’s had more success post draft then Jiricek.

Three, he’s definitely been both underperforming and disappointing. His defense is still an issue and his offense is limited due to his lack of dynamic skating/skill.

He’s still a good prospect but he shouldn’t be seen as this untouchable player due to his draft status in a very weak draft class. Especially when the Devils have plenty of options moving forward on the right side.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Not even opening the can of worms of the whole trade Hamliton again BUT this front office has shown they're actually very adept on the defensive side with decisions. Their achilles heel will be on the offensive side of the puck with this core which is weird because of the contracts that Jack/Bratt/Nico are on.

 

[Mgd31]

Aside from all the discussions on whether to trade or keep him, I just want to point out, Hamilton has probably been our best defenseman post - Christmas break.

 

[britdevil]

I mean if you watch Dougie Hamilton and dont think he is clearly on the decline, I Dont know what to tell you man. The dude cant move.


who is getting paid more than Dougie Hamilton on the Devils? Genuinely curious!

I was wrong. Dougie is getting paid the most this season and next.

The point is that this roster has other highly paid guys who aren't delivering. No idea why there is such a laser focus on just Dougie.

Who is that?

I was referring to Timo. Got it wrong. Sorry.

I feel like I need to be absolutely clear that I'm not suggesting getting rid of either Timo or Dougie. Outside of these players having committed their futures to this team, it doesn't exactly send a great signal to UFA's that they won't be deemed expendable after a couple years.

New Jersey has never been a destination for UFA's, at least until recently. We can't afford to change that perspective or new momentum.

This is a cap team and can afford both. What we need is both to live up to their lofty pay grades.

I feel that neither is. Making excuses for either is pointless and you can't treat them differently. Both have to be under the microscope and both need to be much better.

 

[theoptimist]

Aside from all the discussions on whether to trade or keep him, I just want to point out, Hamilton has probably been our best defenseman post - Christmas break.

Kovacevic easily, followed by Brendan Dillon. Both players never play outside of themselves the way Dougie does.

 

[britdevil]

Kovacevic walking is probably the most likely outcome on the right side over a Hamliton trade

It makes the most logical sense. Dude has earned chump change in his career so far and will be looking for a big pay day.

I also absolutely believe that this would be the correct decision for him to make. Go get the bag, because this career is over before you know it.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I was wrong. Dougie is getting paid the most this season and next.

The point is that this roster has other highly paid guys who aren't delivering. No idea why there is such a laser focus on just Dougie.




I was referring to Timo. Got it wrong. Sorry.

I feel like I need to be absolutely clear that I'm not suggesting getting rid of either Timo or Dougie. Outside of these players having committed their futures to this team, it doesn't exactly send a great signal to UFA's that they won't be deemed expendable after a couple years.

New Jersey has never been a destination for UFA's, at least until recently. We can't afford to change that perspective or new momentum.

This is a cap team and can afford both. What we need is both to live up to their lofty pay grades.

I feel that neither is.

You get rid of Timo then what's the legit alternative? Not trying to argue btw, I'm genuinely asking and curious. You lost multiple picks/propsects for a guy who didn't work and you're giving up on a guy in 1.5 years into his contract. At least the Dougie rationale is there where you have Nemec/Casey and then you pay Kovacevic to be the defensive dman, Pesce isn't going anywhere either since he just signed last year. You have 3-4 NHL caliber players to replace Dougie on the NHL roster in everyone's case, you're shedding money. In Timo's case, with the cap going up, you're probably gonna hand out a contract that's similar to a good top 6 forward plus more assets dumped into said player whether it's money or more prospects via trade. If Dougie plays the way he has since Christmas, fine but I don't expect him to continue his play that way.

Kovacevic easily, followed by Brendan Dillon. Both players never play outside of themselves the way Dougie does.

We must not watch the same Brendan Dillon and Kovacevic has been eh.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I was wrong. Dougie is getting paid the most this season and next.

The point is that this roster has other highly paid guys who aren't delivering. No idea why there is such a laser focus on just Dougie.




I was referring to Timo. Got it wrong. Sorry.

I feel like I need to be absolutely clear that I'm not suggesting getting rid of either Timo or Dougie. Outside of these players having committed their futures to this team, it doesn't exactly send a great signal to UFA's that they won't be deemed expendable after a couple years.

New Jersey has never been a destination for UFA's, at least until recently. We can't afford to change that perspective or new momentum.

This is a cap team and can afford both. What we need is both to live up to their lofty pay grades.

I feel that neither is. Making excuses for either is pointless and you can't treat them differently. Both have to be under the microscope and both need to be much better.

Did you read the Timo thread from yesterday? It literally spells it out quite nicely. He is playing basically the same way he has always been AND has been better defensively. He is not getting the PP time nor getting the bounces (I believe he is 2nd in the NHL in goals below expected) coupled with hitting 10 posts/crossbars. He also is not a liability out there most of the time like Hamilton is.

We also dont have anyone that can replace Timo. We have guys that could potentially replace Hamilton, for much cheaper as well.

 

[britdevil]

Did you read the Timo thread from yesterday? It literally spells it out quite nicely. He is playing basically the same way he has always been AND has been better defensively. He is not getting the PP time nor getting the bounces (I believe he is 2nd in the NHL in goals below expected) coupled with hitting 10 posts/crossbars. He also is not a liability out there most of the time like Hamilton is.

We also dont have anyone that can replace Timo. We have guys that could potentially replace Hamilton, for much cheaper as well.

I did read it. Very good points made and I 1000% agree that he is a much better player than he is showing.

But undeniably, across the board, everything is down. Minutes, goals, game winning goals, shooting %, takeaways, even strength. It's all down. PIMs and giveaways up.

We need much better. They aren't even using him on PP1 while Nico is out. Palat is being given those minutes. It's bizarre.

 

[Mgd31]

Kovacevic easily, followed by Brendan Dillon. Both players never play outside of themselves the way Dougie does.

Dillon has been better than his reputation around here. Kovacevic's defensive play has slipped and he provides no offense.

Dougie leads the team in 5 on 5 points since the break (20 games). Yes, he has been benefitting from a high on ice shooting percentage, but he's been playing good hockey on both ends. His defensive play has been better than earlier in the year.