Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season - The Luc and Rob Show

[GoldenBearHockey]

I dont think its that bad. It improves there defense a lot. There going to lose Nylander and Gardneir cause they cant afford raises . Slava toffoli and martinez are cheaper cost controlled options. There going to be in cap trouble soon and signed assests are valuble

They can get much better, much younger Dmen with Willie than Martinez....or Voynov

They can afford to wait, they have some solid D, everyone is saying their D sucks their D sucks etc, and while yes it can be improved upon, its not as dire as they are saying

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I think your underestimating the need for a vet defense man like martinez can do for a team. Slava and Alec both bring the experience of going all the way to a cup final something not many on that roster have. The problem with the leafs is defensive and bring in the nhl top shot blocking defense man (alec) would help that a lot. Toffoli would add another strong scorer that can also add to there pk He did lead the nhl in short hands goals a few years ago. Toronto doesn't need young defense that is still learning the game There window is just opening and this trade would let them go for it Yes there need is dire for better defense In the playoffs you don't win 6 5 its a 2 1 or 3 2 game there

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don’t think most fans would say kind things to you if suggest that trade on the main trade board.

When was the last time you saw a 22-year old forward with back-to-back 60+ point seasons get moved for a middling 30+ year old defenseman?

The Kings don’t even have a Nylander to compare how awful of a proposal that is. The Leafs have no use for Toffoli unless he’s an add-on to the deal. And their defense right now is considerably better than the Kings.

Other teams like Carolina can offer better players that make more sense. The Kings have very little to offer, all thanks to crappy player development.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think your underestimating the need for a vet defense man like martinez can do for a team. Slava and Alec both bring the experience of going all the way to a cup final something not many on that roster have. The problem with the leafs is defensive and bring in the nhl top shot blocking defense man (alec) would help that a lot. Toffoli would add another strong scorer that can also add to there pk He did lead the nhl in short hands goals a few years ago. Toronto doesn't need young defense that is still learning the game There window is just opening and this trade would let them go for it Yes there need is dire for better defense In the playoffs you don't win 6 5 its a 2 1 or 3 2 game there

Yes, bringing in Martinez would help, not at the expense of Nylander though, or Gardiner....thats just bad asset management.

Toffoli doesn't do anything for them....at all....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I don’t think most fans would say kind things to you if suggest that trade on the main trade board.

When was the last time you saw a 22-year old forward with back-to-back 60+ point seasons get moved for a middling 30+ year old defenseman?

The Kings don’t even have a Nylander to compare how awful of a proposal that is. The Leafs have no use for Toffoli unless he’s an add-on to the deal. And their defense right now is considerably better than the Kings.

Other teams like Carolina can offer better players that make more sense. The Kings have very little to offer, all thanks to crappy player development.

That's hyperbole BS and revisionist history, the reason they have very little to offer vs Carolina or Winnipeg, is that they actually won shit, and when you do that, your picks are low...and when you trade picks to try and stay in contention, they are lower.....has nothing to do with player development.

 

[KINGS17]

I sincerely doubt the Kings could even get Kapanen out of Toronto for Martinez and Toffoli.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Kings, Hurricanes hot for Nylander

While roughly a dozen teams have inquired about Nylander’s services, the Los Angeles Kings and Carolina Hurricanes appear to have expressed the most interest, according to multiple sources. TFP first reported Los Angeles’ interest last week.
Speaking on the basis of anonymity, one league source told TFP on Friday the Kings appear willing to package defenceman Jake Muzzin and left wing Tanner Pearson in a deal, which may include additional pieces, for Nylander.
Muzzin, 29, has one-year left on his contract after this season and comes with a $4 million salary cap hit, while Pearson, 26, has two-years left on his deal after this season and has a $3.75 million cap hit.

Even at this point in the season, a deal involving the 2019 1st is a non-starter, I suppose you could put protections on it, Top 10 or whatever.

 

[deeshamrock]

I think your underestimating the need for a vet defense man like martinez can do for a team. Slava and Alec both bring the experience of going all the way to a cup final something not many on that roster have. The problem with the leafs is defensive and bring in the nhl top shot blocking defense man (alec) would help that a lot. Toffoli would add another strong scorer that can also add to there pk He did lead the nhl in short hands goals a few years ago. Toronto doesn't need young defense that is still learning the game There window is just opening and this trade would let them go for it Yes there need is dire for better defense In the playoffs you don't win 6 5 its a 2 1 or 3 2 game there

I like AMart, but I think you're overvaluing his worth. A good portion of his game is tied to the defensive structure, including Quick, that he plays within. That will change once he's traded. And Toronto will be able to get an upgrade on D, for Nylander, one who is more skilled and younger. That's why the Canes are the lead dogs, they have 4 top D , all righties. It depends on how badly they want Nylander and if their willing to give up Pesce (rumored to be the d the Leafs wanted). I actually think Slavin's game is underrated , given what he does.

As far as attaining a veteran d, under 30, they still have Kadri as a trade piece, he's far too talented to be buried on the 3rd line, with less minutes and PP time. And he would get them a solid second pairing d , I feel. He's a good 2 way center who can put up goals/points, a there will be interested teams. There was a rumor that Dubas was eyeing Sanheim (Flyers , but not for Nylander, obviously_) perhaps a part of a trade. So it's no secret why Dubas has been at so many games the last couple of weeks. The issue would be what teams will overpay for Nylander, who might be a rental. He is firm on 8 x 8.5.

Toffoli is not what the Leafs want or need, they have skilled forwards and scoring is not an issue. nor do they need more $$ for a top 6 forward. That would be spent, I would think, on upgrading their d. Any $$ for forwards will be used for Marner/Matthes

 

[Matt13]

Getting Nylander would cost JAD or Vallardi or both. While they may take one of our roster player or even two, they really dont need what we have to put them over to the next level. What they need is cheap, young talent to that can plug holes and keep cap hits low to sign stars.

 

[deeshamrock]

Kings, Hurricanes hot for Nylander



Even at this point in the season, a deal involving the 2019 1st is a non-starter, I suppose you could put protections on it, Top 10 or whatever.

As of Sunday, on part of the TSN podcast I listened to there were 15 teams interested in Nylander. And if the Kings are 'hot' to get him, they'd have to do better than that. Also, it's risky, to give up multiple players/prospects and 1st rounder for a rental. Nylander can sign wherever he wants, and why would he sign in LA, knowing better, younger teams on the rise will shell that out.
Signing another 8.5M player gives them 3 players at 30M, which would handcuff them.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I think anyone that thinks the Kings will win any trade they make right now is crazy. They're not going to get any good, young, established players for anything they trade. It would be tough to get that for Doughty because of the $11m. They're not getting out of this that easy.

 

[deeshamrock]

I think anyone that thinks the Kings will win any trade they make right now is crazy. They're not going to get any good, young, established players for anything they trade. It would be tough to get that for Doughty because of the $11m. They're not getting out of this that easy.

Exactly. Making a trade now would be ill advised, as Blake would not be dealing from a position of strength and also, this team has too many aging vets over 30, making too much money and not enough youth/future stars and leaders contributing. That's a rough locker room mix. Blake is trying to fix the drafting mess DL left him with but that takes a few years.
If they don't make the playoffs this year, that is 5 seasons of failures and at some point the owners will be 'suggesting' that they to rebuild.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's hyperbole BS and revisionist history, the reason they have very little to offer vs Carolina or Winnipeg, is that they actually won ****, and when you do that, your picks are low...and when you trade picks to try and stay in contention, they are lower.....has nothing to do with player development.

Why am I not surprised the homer thinks nothing is wrong with player development? So what do the Kings have in terms of developed top six talent that is going to replace a Brown or Carter? Hell they need someone to replace Pearson who provides nothing offensively. The only name fans hang onto is Toffoli.

What have the Kings won in what is approaching five years? Who have they drafted in the first round or later rounds over the past few years to step in and show any meaningful contribution?

I await your silly response since I know you’ll be hard pressed to come up with excuses. Didn’t realize you confused facts with revisionism.

You’re stuck living in the part thinking the Kings have won something meaningful when five years have past since they last achieved something. You keep clinging onto that, homer.

 

[RocketKing]

Off the current roster we would give up more legit talent to get Nylander. Like at least an Iafallo (or a JAD) with a Muzzin or a Martinez. I wish we could give them the penalty machine known as Kempe but that's a pipe dream. So at that point I'm not sure its a really good move for us. If LA does get Slava back that could also be a big boost to our D corp but I think we should continue to look for an upgrade there too.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Why am I not surprised the homer thinks nothing is wrong with player development? So what do the Kings have in terms of developed top six talent that is going to replace a Brown or Carter? Hell they need someone to replace Pearson who provides nothing offensively. The only name fans hang onto is Toffoli.

What have the Kings won in what is approaching five years? Who have they drafted in the first round or later rounds over the past few years to step in and show any meaningful contribution?

I await your silly response since I know you’ll be hard pressed to come up with excuses. Didn’t realize you confused facts with revisionism.

You’re stuck living in the part thinking the Kings have won something meaningful when five years have past since they last achieved something. You keep clinging onto that, homer.

I think player development can be improved, but I also think you continually ignore that a lot of pieces have been moved/traded and that we haven't had any high picks to integrate until recently.

I'd argue Kempe, Amadio, Iafallo at the VERY least have stepped in to show meaningful contributions and that player development has played a part, and I'd suggest they've stepped back/regressed due to coaching rather than player development. That's not to say that there's nothing wrong, only that there's necessary context, and that player development is pretty low down the list of worries.

Edit: just looking at recent guys I think this year's and last year's drafts are too soon to think about, but Wagner in 2015 is a guy you could point to as an example of development. And there are a large amount of guys taking NHL minutes from our drafts. I know your big qualm with this is 'impact players' but you also have to be honest with yourself and everyone and point out how low the probability is of finding impact players outside the top 10 or so. Yet they've done that deep in drafts with Pearson, Kempe, Toffoli, even to a degree guys like Colin Miller. I think we'd also agree there was a different organizational philosophy in place re the draft then as compared to now.

 

[Little Psycho]

Please please please don't pair M & M together.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Here’s the issue with bringing up guys like Kempe or Wagner. What do they do that’s so unique that other teams don’t have? Same goes for Pearson or Forbort.

Who’s the last second round pick the Kings selected that’s become a regular? In terms of firsts, it’s Kempe, four years ago, and he has one goal in what’s approaching 50 games.

Is anyone going to brag about a forward who puts up numbers like that? And it’s not like he makes up for it by being a defensive shutdown center.

The prospect pool is barren, and that’s due to a combination of poor management and drafting. I know it hurts someone like GoldenHomerHockey to hear that, but it’s the truth and the reality of the current situation.

There’s hardly anything to show when it comes to prospects who look like they will be top six talent. Thankfully Blake found an Iafallo, Vilardi is years away from getting there, as is JAD. They’ll probably start making an impact when the likes of Pearson and Toffoli are gone.

 

[King'sPawn]

I think player development can be improved, but I also think you continually ignore that a lot of pieces have been moved/traded and that we haven't had any high picks to integrate until recently.

I'd argue Kempe, Amadio, Iafallo at the VERY least have stepped in to show meaningful contributions and that player development has played a part, and I'd suggest they've stepped back/regressed due to coaching rather than player development. That's not to say that there's nothing wrong, only that there's necessary context, and that player development is pretty low down the list of worries.

Edit: just looking at recent guys I think this year's and last year's drafts are too soon to think about, but Wagner in 2015 is a guy you could point to as an example of development. And there are a large amount of guys taking NHL minutes from our drafts. I know your big qualm with this is 'impact players' but you also have to be honest with yourself and everyone and point out how low the probability is of finding impact players outside the top 10 or so. Yet they've done that deep in drafts with Pearson, Kempe, Toffoli, even to a degree guys like Colin Miller. I think we'd also agree there was a different organizational philosophy in place re the draft then as compared to now.

I think the issue is the Kings have had very little youth come in and be able to integrate with or replace the core since 2010.

Moving pieces is certainly a major cause. But I have a hard time believing the only good players the Kings have drafted and developed are already in the system or were traded away. That's where drafting/development needs to be evaluated.

If we are willing to concede that Ranford/Imoo are the best coaching and development tandem in the org, and we can see the results with the number of goalies developed from within or salvaged from other teams, why can't we see a similar pattern with our defense and forward prospects?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Here’s the issue with bringing up guys like Kempe or Wagner. What do they do that’s so unique that other teams don’t have? Same goes for Pearson or Forbort.

Who’s the last second round pick the Kings selected that’s become a regular? In terms of firsts, it’s Kempe, four years ago, and he has one goal in what’s approaching 50 games.

Is anyone going to brag about a forward who puts up numbers like that? And it’s not like he makes up for it by being a defensive shutdown center.

The prospect pool is barren, and that’s due to a combination of poor management and drafting. I know it hurts someone like GoldenHomerHockey to hear that, but it’s the truth and the reality of the current situation.

There’s hardly anything to show when it comes to prospects who look like they will be top six talent. Thankfully Blake found an Iafallo, Vilardi is years away from getting there, as is JAD. They’ll probably start making an impact when the likes of Pearson and Toffoli are gone.

Then your issue is with drafting, not player f***ing development for f*** sake.

And I won't argue you with that, I will say that they haven't had much to draft with recently, so of course that will affect it, but again, your issue is with drafting.

To answer your question, the last 2nd for regular, was Toffoli, but they have drafted guys in the 3rd and 4th that has,

The 2017 and 2018 drafts are still way too young to know anything about either of them,

Just for perspective the last 2nd round player that became a regular for the Penguins, 2004, the Caps, 2009, the Jets, 2013, the Bruins 2015 so are you prepared to say the PLAYER DEVELOPMENT is shit for those clubs as well?

You really need to learn how to differentiate between player development, and player acquisition

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here’s the issue with bringing up guys like Kempe or Wagner. What do they do that’s so unique that other teams don’t have? Same goes for Pearson or Forbort.

Who’s the last second round pick the Kings selected that’s become a regular? In terms of firsts, it’s Kempe, four years ago, and he has one goal in what’s approaching 50 games.

Is anyone going to brag about a forward who puts up numbers like that? And it’s not like he makes up for it by being a defensive shutdown center.

The prospect pool is barren, and that’s due to a combination of poor management and drafting. I know it hurts someone like GoldenHomerHockey to hear that, but it’s the truth and the reality of the current situation.

There’s hardly anything to show when it comes to prospects who look like they will be top six talent. Thankfully Blake found an Iafallo, Vilardi is years away from getting there, as is JAD. They’ll probably start making an impact when the likes of Pearson and Toffoli are gone.

You can say that about literally anyone, you're being intentionally obtuse.

And I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that in general--it's just about the cause. I disagree that it's 'poor' drafting and development. To me, it's pretty clear the absence of top picks and the trade of those picks and/or basically any and all 2nd and 3rd round draftees is the biggest cause in addition to an organizational philosophy different from the one in place now. And then of course everytime we have this discussion you discount acquisitions like Muzzin, Jones, Iafallo because they weren't 'drafted.' It's an arbitrary criteria you put out there. "Why haven't we specifically drafted any top six forwards in this specific time frame? Our drafting and development sucks!"

I'm also thinking you're jumping the gun on calling Vilardi or JAD 'years' away, they COULD play now. There's also Kupari, Thomas, Clague (meh to me), Shafigullin, Dudas, and other highly-talented skill guys coming down the pike. But there will ALWAYS be clear holes between 2012-2017 for reasons that are very obvious to me.

I think the issue is the Kings have had very little youth come in and be able to integrate with or replace the core since 2010.

Moving pieces is certainly a major cause. But I have a hard time believing the only good players the Kings have drafted and developed are already in the system or were traded away. That's where drafting/development needs to be evaluated.

If we are willing to concede that Ranford/Imoo are the best coaching and development tandem in the org, and we can see the results with the number of goalies developed from within or salvaged from other teams, why can't we see a similar pattern with our defense and forward prospects?

I don't disagree.

But I also don't think stomping feet and demanding top-six forwards is realistic given the situation, either, especially when arbitrary restrictions are placed on the criteria so as to ignore Pearson, Toffoli, Iafallo, Kempe, et. al.

Let's also not forget--since we had this discussion last night too--that a lot of the previous top players left holes instead of assets in their wake. Often you could trade one for a return, but when guys like Richards, Williams, even the d-men like Regehr just vaporize, that's a vanishing chip.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think the issue is the Kings have had very little youth come in and be able to integrate with or replace the core since 2010.

Moving pieces is certainly a major cause. But I have a hard time believing the only good players the Kings have drafted and developed are already in the system or were traded away. That's where drafting/development needs to be evaluated.

If we are willing to concede that Ranford/Imoo are the best coaching and development tandem in the org, and we can see the results with the number of goalies developed from within or salvaged from other teams, why can't we see a similar pattern with our defense and forward prospects?

Because it's a numbers game, Lombardi said, and I think everyone around the league agrees, that if you find 2 NHL players in each daft, per year, you are doing something really good....think about that....2 players, 7 rounds, so 5 of those players you pick you know will never make it...

And in years past, 2015, 2016, the Kings didn't even have 7 picks etc.

 

[King'sPawn]

You can say that about literally anyone, you're being intentionally obtuse.

And I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that in general--it's just about the cause. I disagree that it's 'poor' drafting and development. To me, it's pretty clear the absence of top picks and the trade of those picks and/or basically any and all 2nd and 3rd round draftees is the biggest cause in addition to an organizational philosophy different from the one in place now.

I'm also thinking you're jumping the gun on calling Vilardi or JAD 'years' away, they COULD play now. There's also Kupari, Thomas, Clague (meh to me), Shafigullin, Dudas, and other highly-talented skill guys coming down the pike. But there will ALWAYS be clear holes between 2012-2017 for reasons that are very obvious to me.




I don't disagree.

But I also don't think stomping feet and demanding top-six forwards is realistic given the situation, either, especially when arbitrary restrictions are placed on the criteria so as to ignore Pearson, Toffoli, Iafallo, Kempe, et. al.

I don't think the restrictions are arbitrary. But none have produced consistently in a top 6 role to say they belong.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think the restrictions are arbitrary. But none have produced consistently in a top 6 role to say they belong.

I think if you were to start a poll anywhere asking if Toffoli is a top-six or bottom-six forward you wouldn't find the latter.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think if you were to start a poll anywhere asking if Toffoli is a top-six or bottom-six forward you wouldn't find the latter.

Not true, if he starts a poll on this form lol

But yea, main boards believe he is a top six, and he is....but man when he's off...holy hell he's off

 

[Johnny Utah]

If I was the Kings I would move two D. Forbort, what’s the point. Haven’t noticed him at all and was a healthy scratch. Fattenberg, LaDue and Walker are all interchangeable. Brickley and Clague are in the wings.

I think the top 6 D needs a total revamp. Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez are the big 3. Phaneuf is not movable and actually would rather have him than Forbort.