Confirmed with Link: Keith Jones actually set to be named real life part-time President of Hockey Operations, Danny Briere full-time GM

[GKJ]

Jones is not ‘just a PR guy.’ He is a person with inward and insider knowledge of the league and can parse that information. It’s whether or not he does that effectively that we don’t trust.

Likewise, he is not going to be Brian Burke. That’s not the job he’s preparing to do, to sit and pretend he is actually doing anything by going to league meetings and hoping ownership doesn’t ask questions and telling Ron Hextall ‘uh, bro, you actually gotta do your job.’

Both attempts to frame it in those manners by the usual suspects are fecklessly naive and ignorant to the existing discourse surrounding the job.

They are very much trying to do things different, there is just a very earned and warranted lack of trust from people who refuse to be fooled again.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There's an amount of uncertainty with the both Danny B and Jonesy. We don't know how they are going to do, and we don't know who really has the most control. So with the uncertainty, there is technically a non-zero chance that this hiring can be a good hiring.

HOWEVER, this is still a same-as-it-ever-was situation. Just keep hiring people with connections to the old guard, and don't look outside of the organization for help. How many times do you need to watch them do the same thing with zero results? It makes me crazy.

We actually have no idea how the hell the chain of command works. I'm sure that's never led to confusion, disorder, mistakes, and incompetent results in organizations before. All is well. I am zen.

 

[DancingPanther]

Also the new era of orange thing is going to tie into a uniform tweak which will undoubtedly call back to the 70s jerseys. Which of course, means it's not new at all. Just like how the new bosses are the same as the old bosses (that is, the bosses haven't changed at all), so that'll be another thing to f*** up

 

[Strawberry Fields]

The Flyers: "A crew like you comes around maybe once in a lifetime!"

The crew:

 

[Beef Invictus]

Did Pittsburgh use the same power structure? I don't know. Not that it matters anyway, Burke is a fossil bound for failure with idiot Hextall under his wing.

No one is saying the PoHO should be overruling Briere. PoHO doesn't need veto power over the GM's every decision, but it does need to have authority if/when things go south.

Just because it is "not happening" doesn't mean it shouldn't be happening.

Pittsburgh has a power structure. The Flyers have a power amorphous blob.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You know what else is great?

If/when Briere fails and needs to be fired, guess who gets to hire the next GM?

Jones goes and asks Clarke who he wants then hires that guy.

 

[deadhead]

I don't know what Shanahan does on a daily basis, but I'm sure he has Hockey Ops input greater than what Jones has been allotted. He likely serves as a Senior Advisor for the GM's grand vision of things, but also serves as the GM's boss to make sure things are executed correctly. Not as a business liaison like Jones.

All the "shots" you listed of Shanahan calling were from the period in between Nonis getting fired and Lamoriello getting hired. There was no GM. And it's been 8 years since Shanahan was calling roster shots like that.

You think Shanahan isn't on top of every move and has veto power?
Dubas owes his career to Shanahan, he's never going to cross his boss. Isn't that incestuous?

Not saying it's right or wrong, but there's either consensus management or one person with final authority. With Toronto, it's clearly Shanahan.

With the Flyers, Hilferty is the one who will decide if Briere is doing a good job and if the Briere/Torts partnership is working. And in the end, all these situations are the same, "you win or you die."

And the same problem, if you go "strong President," you have to choose the right President. Shanahan was a former player with limited experience, NHL's vice president of hockey and business development in 2009 then Senior NHL VP (I think of enforcement). Made Toronto VP in 2014 after 5 years in NHL management without any hands on hockey management experience.

 

[DancingPanther]

The Flyers: "A crew like you comes around maybe once in a lifetime!"

The crew:
View attachment 706709

SOILED IT

 

[Deleted member 339941]

 

[Chinatown88]

The Flyers: "A crew like you comes around maybe once in a lifetime!"

The crew:
View attachment 706709

The bosses

 

[deadhead]

Jones is not ‘just a PR guy.’ He is a person with inward and insider knowledge of the league and can parse that information. It’s whether or not he does that effectively that we don’t trust.

Likewise, he is not going to be Brian Burke. That’s not the job he’s preparing to do, to sit and pretend he is actually doing anything by going to league meetings and hoping ownership doesn’t ask questions and telling Ron Hextall ‘uh, bro, you actually gotta do your job.’

Both attempts to frame it in those manners by the usual suspects are fecklessly naive and ignorant to the existing discourse surrounding the job.

They are very much trying to do things different, there is just a very earned and warranted lack of trust from people who refuse to be fooled again.

I wouldn't trust anyone they hired, including Tulsky (who I wonder is even available, given the lack of rumors around him, maybe he's been promised something in Carolina).

People with great resumes fall flat on their faces, a number of GMs/Presidents with limited or different experience have succeeded. Some retreads improve the second go around, others fail for the same reason they failed the first time.

Briere has a resume similar to Sakic and Shanahan. Doesn't mean he'll succeed like they did, but doesn't mean he's doomed to fail, either.

In the end it's a leap of faith.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Nothing says new voices and new perspective like hiring two of your former players, who have both been employed by the team in some capacity for multiple years now.

 

[Redpath]

You think Shanahan isn't on top of every move and has veto power?
Dubas owes his career to Shanahan, he's never going to cross his boss. Isn't that incestuous?

Not saying it's right or wrong, but there's either consensus management or one person with final authority. With Toronto, it's clearly Shanahan.

With the Flyers, Hilferty is the one who will decide if Briere is doing a good job and if the Briere/Torts partnership is working. And in the end, all these situations are the same, "you win or you die."

And the same problem, if you go "strong President," you have to choose the right President. Shanahan was a former player with limited experience, NHL's vice president of hockey and business development in 2009 then Senior NHL VP (I think of enforcement). Made Toronto VP in 2014 after 5 years in NHL management without any hands on hockey management experience.

No, I really don't think that. Maybe I'm naive for thinking so.

I'm sure Shanahan is privy to was Dubas is doing, and has input on the matters, but I do think Dubas is the one making the final call on roster decisions.

I'd rather have a hockey guy in the room with Briere being the one holding the GM accountable instead of a suit at Comcast being expected to do so.

Your last paragraph means nothing. Obviously we want to hire the right candidate, that is completely redundant. And conersely, if you go "strong GM", you have to choose the right GM. And Briere has just as limited experience for a GM as Shanahan (or Jones) had for President.

 

[Larry44]

You know what else is great?

If/when Briere fails and needs to be fired, guess who gets to hire the next GM?

Il Duce Tortorella!

 

[DancingPanther]

The bosses

Every
Villain
Is
Lindros

 

[BiggE]

I was 9 when they last won the Cup. I’ll be dead before they win another.

Yay sports

 

[freakydallas13]

The bosses

Ernest Borgnine > Bob Clarke

 

[deadhead]

Nothing says new voices and new perspective like hiring two of your former players, who have both been employed by the team in some capacity for multiple years now.

Maine wasn't a Flyer affiliate, owned by Comcast but not connected with the team.
Affiliated with the Rangers, then the Bruins.

He was named the special assistant to the general manager in Feb, 2022.
Think that was a decision by the advisors and CF? Or imposed by Comcast management.
Very corporate, send an aspiring executive out to the boonies to get hands on experience.
Then bring him in to observe the team operations for a year, preparing him for a promotion.

 

[Starat327]

I was 9 when they last won the Cup. I’ll be dead before they win another.

Yay sports

Any chance this is soon? I could use that inheritance.

 

[Chinatown88]

Any chance this is soon? I could use that inheritance.

Is this new lore?

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I wouldn't trust anyone they hired, including Tulsky (who I wonder is even available, given the lack of rumors around him, maybe he's been promised something in Carolina).

People with great resumes fall flat on their faces, a number of GMs/Presidents with limited or different experience have succeeded. Some retreads improve the second go around, others fail for the same reason they failed the first time.

Briere has a resume similar to Sakic and Shanahan. Doesn't mean he'll succeed like they did, but doesn't mean he's doomed to fail, either.

In the end it's a leap of faith.

If all of this is a big a crap shoot as you seem to indicate, what's the justification of doing the incestuous thing AGAIN? What's the downside to making an actual hire of people not associated to this steaming pile?

 

[Starat327]

Is this new lore?

Old lore.

 

[Chinatown88]

Old lore.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You think Shanahan isn't on top of every move and has veto power?
Dubas owes his career to Shanahan, he's never going to cross his boss. Isn't that incestuous?

Not saying it's right or wrong, but there's either consensus management or one person with final authority. With Toronto, it's clearly Shanahan.

With the Flyers, Hilferty is the one who will decide if Briere is doing a good job and if the Briere/Torts partnership is working. And in the end, all these situations are the same, "you win or you die."

And the same problem, if you go "strong President," you have to choose the right President. Shanahan was a former player with limited experience, NHL's vice president of hockey and business development in 2009 then Senior NHL VP (I think of enforcement). Made Toronto VP in 2014 after 5 years in NHL management without any hands on hockey management experience.

Toronto is light years ahead of the Flyers. They are not comparable.

At this point the Flyers' main peer is the DC Commanders. Nobody else in hockey is as badly mismanaged. Making the discussion about Toronto is your attempt to just talk about anything but the Flyers, because this is indefensible and you know it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Maine wasn't a Flyer affiliate, owned by Comcast but not connected with the team.
Affiliated with the Rangers, then the Bruins.

He was named the special assistant to the general manager in Feb, 2022.
Think that was a decision by the advisors and CF? Or imposed by Comcast management.
Very corporate, send an aspiring executive out to the boonies to get hands on experience.
Then bring him in to observe the team operations for a year, preparing him for a promotion.

The bolded is extremely relevant.